Qui Gon Jim

Not really defending HiFi here, but you are so wrong here. HD WILL happen. The studios will push it and we'll have no choice. PS3 will bring HD players to the mainstream, even if they only play them on SD sets.

DthRdrX

My local Best Buy and CC still have them.

digitalfreaknyc

I thought they started to phase them out nationwide.

speedyray

Well, A VCR can be found easily at pretty much any electronics store. It may be combined with a DVD player, but it is not hard to find.

Blockbuster, Hollywood and Hastings (in my area) all rent new release VHS still, not in great quantities - but enough and most are usually not on the shelf.

If you don not see VHS anymore, you are not looking, because they are still here just in smaller quantities - the reverse of DVD and VHS numbers 6-7 years ago (it used to be a few DVD and alot of VHS).

digitalfreaknyc

Never said a VCR was hard to find.

VHS, on the other hand, is harder. CC and BB don't stock them around here any more and Blockbuster doesn't rent them any more. Those are the major places unless I'm horribly mistaken.

DthRdrX

I thought I read about that as well but, alas, they still sell them here. I do see a lot of duel players though as well.

Most of the tapes I still see in these stores seem to be children's programming and a couple of the big name movies.

nightmaster

I wish they WERE hard to find. In my little burg all I have available is a Family Video outlet that has at least a 50 percent ratio of VHS on the shelves; some of them look antiquated. If they'd let the poor things die and start using all that space fpr more DVD titles I'd be happy. As for VHS to buy, Walmart hasn't stopped selling them yet either. The sooner they stop production, the sooner that space can start being used for DVD and when available down the road HD-DVD.

hifisapien

HUH? I dont watch HDTV "TV" shows. I watch nearly 100% movies, currently on HBO-HD, Showtime-HD, and HDNetMovies. Many of them are classics, new releases, etc and in original aspect ratio. You are sadly mistaken about what is available in HD programming. No wonder you want to stick with buying DVD sif you have that mistaken concept.

Seondly, what the hell is wrong with wanting better sound quality? DVD is a AUDIO-VISUAL medium isnt it? I dont want my MUSIC and SOUND screwed up by the format. Excuse me but I am not a gearhead, I am a fan of the arts and there is nothing artistic about mediocre sound...

hifisapien

I respectfully disagree with you. DD and DTS are lame compared to SACD/DVD-A/and VINYL WHENED PLAYED BACK ON THE FINEST reproduction systems. If you are using a typical $300 AV receiver and five mid fi speakers, sure they are similarly mediocre, but switch to something in the $10K and up
range for speakers and amps and the difference is not subtle, its HUGE! DD and DTS arent even really as good as CD let alone hi-res formats.

hifisapien

YOU DONT GET IT. HDTV is not just "technically" better, its ARTISTICALLY better. Why do you assume that anyone who wants better sound and picture quality doesnt care about content? It's all about the content! Better reproduction means better presentation of movies and music. I couldnt care
less about the specs, I care about the goosebumps and better fidelity delivers it more often that poor fidelity.

hifisapien

Yes, you can still buy a VHS deck. Of course you can, It was the predominent home video format for roughly 25 years so you will still be
able to buy a deck for many years to come because many people have
tapes that arent on DVD (personal videos, tv shows, sporting events) hat they will want to play for a lifetime but not often enought to bother with the effort to transfer to another format.. But
I dont think many people are buying VHS decks at this point to view new films.

sracer

Again, it can't be the content... because the amount of content of DVD far outstrips HD broadcasting. Here's what you said:

There is a pitifully small amount of films being show on those HBO-HD and Showtime-HD. Even fewer that are of any interest. I've had them both, and I ended up watching films on them just because they were HD. But most of it was junk and filler.

To claim that HD is "artistically better" is just an obtuse way of saying... "higher res". Because the content and composition are the same between OAR on HD and OAR on DVD. The only difference... video quality.

The bottom line: you said that you were losing interest in DVDs because of HDTV. Since you admit yourself that you watch nearly 100% movies, then it can't be "exclusive content" that is driving your move to HDTV... but the specs... the higher res picture.

Given the choice of a broader range of content on DVD vs. less of a range on HDTV, you choose HDTV. That clearly says that, "specs matter".
( insert remark about going back to VHS here )

No one has said that properly broadcast HDTV isn't better than DVD... only that content is more important than specs. Everyone seems to basically agree with this except you. That makes you a gearhead. (not that there's anything wrong with that)

Richard Malloy

Give it a break, sracer. Of course there isn't as much HD-material as there is SD-material out there today. For reminding us of this so incessantly, you have become the master of the bleeding obvious.

And, yes, "specs" matter. If the goal of home theater is to recreate the theatrical experience in the home, then we need media capable of resolution that comes closer to film. Having experienced this, I can attest that watching films in HD rather than SD is a much greater experience, one closer to watching a projected film. It's like seeing a painting by a master in an artbook and then seeing that same painting hanging in a museum... the experience of that painting is vastly superior in the latter circumstance.

So now you can proceed to nitpick this point or that, or perhaps bog us down in an irrelevant swamp of parsed semantics. But most of us are here because we do care about video/audio quality. And let me make this as plain as I can... I don't own a single "reference DVD" (aka "a crappy movie that looks/sounds good"), but that doesn't mean that I don't care about the quality of presentation of films that I love. Of course this is important. I'm surprised that you seem to think it's not.

sracer

Not according to hifisapien.

I am in agreement on those points.

My comments are directed at hifisapien's statement that the higher quality of HDTV has diminished his interest and enjoyment in DVD. If you feel the same way, then my comments apply to you... but if you simply appreciate the additional enjoyment that HD brings to the movie viewing experience, then my comments DON'T apply to you.

Richard Malloy

I do feel the same way, and I think you're picking semantical nits as to whether or not your comments apply to me. I certainly do appreciate the additional enjoyment that a high-definition transfer brings to my viewing of a film, and my interest/enjoyment of a standard-def DVD transfer of that film is thereby reduced in equivalent measure.

This is not a new feeling for me, and certainly not limited to my experience with HD. Over the years, whenever I've been forced to watch a poor standard-def DVD transfer -- say one with motion artifacts, poor contrast levels, and lacking anamorphic enhancement -- my interest/enjoyment in that presentation is likewise reduced. If it's a film I love, I watch it anyway, of course, but not without that nagging feeling that it should be so much better.

To put it simply, I do care about the way a film is presented, and particularly a film that I love, and what was state-of-the-art 10 years ago is no longer so today. Acknowledging that, while also acknowledging that some of the shine is off the older technology as a result, is hardly the heresy you seem to think it is. It is, quite simply, progress.

Wayde

Back at ya, hoss!

I hear you reciting the mantra of audiophile witchcraft. That's cool though, I used to buy into all that too.

For me, the idea of vinyl being "better" than digitally stored media is right up there with tube amps being "better" than solid state. Another falacy the "audiophile" community like to pawn off on consumers.

To be honest Sapien, a $6,000 turntable will only provide superiour sound quality to CD or DVD if it's sandwhiched between two of these babys:

http://www.tricell-ent.com/Shakti.htm

hifisapien

Your digitallly stored comment gives you away as a blind ( and deaf) digiphile.
Nothing is better or worse because it is digital or analog. It all depends on execution. 16 Bit CD and compressed DD and DTS is not good digital execution, 24bit 192 KHZ PCM is good digital but not what DVD has. And as far as LP format goes, Have you ever heard a $6K or up turntable on a really high end playback system with a well mastered LP? ( IN MY EXPERIENCE VERY VERY FEW PEOPLE HAVE, they much more commonly have only faded memories of their 1970's $100 junker turntable and are trying to compare CD with that instead of the BEST LP gear) If you had you wouldnt make these silly statements that CD and DVD sound the same or better than the best LP format equipment. Go actually listen before you put your foot in your mouth. Its not even close and you will find out that
high end audio gear (expensive stuff ) isnt bought by anyone via "pawning off" or hype. People buy this stuff becuase they hear it first, KNOW it sounds better and WANT it, not because somebody TOLD THEM it sounds better
or told them to buy it like the way the cheap stuff is sold. JCO

hifisapien

This post is laughable, the only difference between the DVD and the HD is the video quality? Well DUH. Thats what I am watching, the video. As it stands now there is very very little you can buy in HD, but that isnt what I am talking about. I am talking about not buying or even renting new release DVDs because I can watch them a year from now in much higher quality on HDTV. And for your information, there are movies being shown , in HD, with OAR, THAT ARE NOT AVAILABLE on DVD. These can be seen on HDNet. thats another subject altogether but to suggest there is NOTHING to see on HD is really pushing the limit of credibility.

Another thing many people that have not yet switched to HD are not aware of ( I wasnt), is that often due to both being newer transfers and of course HD transfers, many movies you have seen for decades over and over again on STDV and SDTV home video that you are "burned out" on seem totally different, new, and fresh and you will want to see them in HD no matter how many times you have seen them before. I did not expect this, but its been the case for me. So when you switch to HD, there will be plenty films you WANT to see as long as you have a few movie channels.

cokekiller

This is exactly what has happened to me. It's not just the HDTV but having the HD-DVR that has really taken my DVD purchases to almost zero. It's kinda sad, but I really don't have the time for all the great extras on DVD. Just last week I recorded Kill Bill 1 and 2 and the whole Matrix trilogy in HD and they were great. We actually have On Demand with Comcast (Chicago) and I really think that might be the future. Just clicking through and picking a show is really crazy easy. Sad to say but I think DVD's will go the way of the dodo much quicker than VHS.

hifisapien

I did see the whole matrix trilogy in three nights on HBO-HD and they were great looking ( but werent these 1.78:1 crops of 2.35:1 material? HBO does that sometimes). But I would have loved to see Kill Bill 1 & 2 in HD. What network was that on? Wow, lucky dog!

SubZeri

Not to sidetrack the thread, but I totally agree regarding the vinyl issue. In my house, I have a full JBL M-Pro club PA system powered by Crown amps and Rane Mojo components. All connects are gold Monster Studio Prolink balanced XLR. Just using Ortofon NiteClub needles on my 1200's, the punch and depth of the music on vinyl, especially the low end, is very great compared to any other format. Now just don't get me started on the abortion that is mp3...

For reference, I don't have HDTV. Heck, I don't even have surround sound on my tv. But guess what? I totally agree with Hifi's sentiment that buying dvd's is somewhat disappointing knowing that, technically, their future is already limited. Just don't tell that to the masses on here who own thousands of dvd's, who will call you out as a heretic instead of a harbinger.
Jon

tonyc3742

That certainly is true, but you could argue the same about any technology. A computer is outdated on first bootup; my PS2 is going to be supplanted with a PS3 sometime in the seminear future; the DVD is not the pinnacle of digital format.
Each consumer has to weigh his interest in that current format and its offerings against the speed of its being replaced, and the concomitant costs. To me, dvd still offers more at a reasonable cost than HDTV or HDDVD. That will certainly not always be the case, and when those replacements come out, it's only a matter of time before their replacements. The circle of life, and all that.

Eric F

Yep. HBO showed The Matrix open matte (decent) but Reloaded and Revolutions were a horrible crop job.

Kill Bill v1&2 on Starz were upconverts. Anything OAR on Starz-HD is an upconvert- they crop all HD!

Bring on HD DVD! and soon!

gutwrencher

So is my toaster.

I was enjoying HD-TV a little earlier tonight , myself.

Then I watched a few films from the dvd library and enjoyed them without feeling sad or constantly saying to myself, "man, I wish I had these on HD-DVD"! I mean they just can't be enjoyed, right? Of course, one of the dvds was The Blood Drinkers. That will be on HD-DVD in a few years, right?

I'll say "no" and will just enjoy it now. When it pops up later, in 7 or 8 years, if then, I'll buy it. Until then...the dvd library is nothing but essential.

speedyray

I have decided from reading the thread that there is no possible way to convince hifi of anything. Whether he wants to admit it or not he is a gearhead, which is cool with me as I am too to an extent (I like specs and I like having the latest and greatest although I do it on a limited budget). He, and a few others are will miss out on lots of great stuff because they are so obsessed with resolution.

The SACD/DVD-A and LP arguments are bizzare. I mean even if LPs are wonderful - I doubt I could replace a quarter of my 800+ CDs with good LP copies - that said I would be investing a fortune into equipment to listen to a select few of my favorite artist. Plus, since I listen to most of my music in the car I would need a dash mounted unit - don't think they have made a car record player in quite some time (I know one car had one once - but I doubt it would be of the quality hifi would accept).

I mean I was watching Voom earlier and the HD is damn fine. Don't get me wrong, I love HD and that love has only increased since getting my Voom the other day. But in no way did that stop me from enjoying my nightly DVD. I will admit that I watched a movie on Voom instead of a DVD on Monday (My Bloody Valentine - which I do not own on DVD), but if I had not been so busy I guess I would have watched a second movie on DVD. To be honest, HDTV has just made tv interesting to me once more, not DVD less interesting. Paying for the new set and new service is the only thing slowing my DVD purchases.

As soon as players reach a reasonable price (I personally have decided I will pay no more than $500), I will get an HD-DVD player of some sort. If I have to decide on a format, I may wait a little longer till I can afford two players or one format wins out.

I guess hifi in particular could never enjoy playing an old Nintendo or Atari game. It is so low quality being 8 bit and all. However, there are thousands that still play these games regularly not because of the graphics rather inspite of the graphics. They play them for content and they do not bemoan the fact that they are outdated and so low quality compared to the PS3 games about to come out.

There is no reason for anyone to give up on DVD. I can understand slowing purchases if you intend to be an early adopter of HD-DVD. Or just renting since you plan to buy it in HD. However, having thread after thread and post after post about the "death" of DVD and how it is obsolete is absurd. I mean a Chevy or Ford is inferior to a Ferrari, but they still sell plenty of Chevy and Fords. I know someone is going to talk about the cost of media being nearly the same, but the player price is going to be $100 compared to $1000 and I am being liberal with the regular players price. At some point the technology will filter down to a lower price point just as technology in cars starts in the top end and works down.

There will be an HD standard eventually. Until then I like millions of others will enjoy our DVDs and not be sad. I will purchase what I want, but keep in mind that HD is coming and continue to keep the prices I pay for media reasonable.