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OFFICIAL: Importing DVDs is illegal

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OFFICIAL: Importing DVDs is illegal

Old 02-01-05, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
2) importation, for the private use of the importer and not for distribution, by any person with respect to no more than one copy or phonorecord of any one work at any one time, or by any person arriving from outside the United States with respect to copies or phonorecords forming part of such person’s personal baggage; or
:unquote

What this means is it is LEGAL to buy one copy for your own personal use. However, if you buy 10 copies or more and then sell them--that is technically illegal.

I've always known this about importing video material, I did not realise that the way the law is actually written, it refers to books too.

I guess I BETTER NOT let the US copyright office anywhere near my library before the **&^%%%$# decide to burn all the British books I own (not to mention the Canadian, Irish, and French ones)!

--Brit TV Fan

Isn't it a shame that the greatest so-called democracy in the world is SO AFRAID of the opinions of people in other countries that ANY and ALL representations of the culture of those countries are stopped at the border? How stupid can you get.
Old 02-01-05, 05:37 PM
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I'm still scratching my head in trying to understand the MPAA's logic with putting those annoying little dots on film prints. I know it's suppose to help trace bootlegging but exactly how I don't know.

And, in all honesty, I don't think the MPAA knows either.

Old 02-01-05, 05:55 PM
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Each film print sent to a certain area or theater gets different prints that have different little dot patterns.

When the bootleg shows up on the internet, they take a look at where exactly those dots are, what shape/form they are in and from that they narrow down which theaters the bootleggers are recording the copy from. They can talk to the theater to tighten security and do other things based on the knowledge of which theater is allowing this to happen.
Old 02-01-05, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Jackskeleton
They can talk to the theater to tighten security and do other things based on the knowledge of which theater is allowing this to happen.
Do you (the unified "you"... not "you" you) really think the theater owners care? It's not like they make much money from the screening of the movie anyway.

But thank you for the insight.
Old 02-01-05, 06:52 PM
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Oh, you can be sure. Take a look at The Link. See way down at the bottom the MPAA link, and the contact us, and the FAQ - that's very much the MPAA employing scare tactics again.

stealing (per dictionary.com) is: To take (the property of another) without right or permission. To the best of my knowledge, disallowing importation of products is not stealing them.
Ok stealing is not quite the right word. But Corporate America is trying to run roughshod over my rights to buy what I want from wherever I want (AKA outside the US). No, they haven't said "It's illegal!" - but they're trying really, really hard with little dog and pony shows like this one. They are trying to scare the populace into acceptance and compliance.

How people can defend a policy like that boggles the mind.

Originally Posted by BritTVfanMidwst
Isn't it a shame that the greatest so-called democracy in the world is SO AFRAID of the opinions of people in other countries that ANY and ALL representations of the culture of those countries are stopped at the border? How stupid can you get.
Its not so much that they're afraid of the culture, its a desire for control and of shameless greed. They don't want you to import Final Fantasy XXIII from Japan 8 months (or Battle Royale from the UK, or whatever) before it's release in the US shores, because The US Studios don't get a cut of the pie. Somebody else gets your money, and not the people that count.

That's why they're scared. That's why they seek to impose these artificial limitations on us - it's all about the Washingtons at the end of the day.

Last edited by El-Kabong; 02-01-05 at 07:05 PM.
Old 02-01-05, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by BritTVfanMidwst
I've always known this about importing video material, I did not realise that the way the law is actually written, it refers to books too.
It applies to any and all copyrighted material.

DJ
Old 02-01-05, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by natevines
First off, was it the MPAA that initiated this policy?
Congress adopted Section 602 on October 19, 1976. I don't think that the MPAA was cracking down on DVD importation at that time.

DJ
Old 02-01-05, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by MBuhmann
Do you (the unified "you"... not "you" you) really think the theater owners care? It's not like they make much money from the screening of the movie anyway.

But thank you for the insight.

I think they start laying down fines and/or other threats to the chain so that some action is taken.

I really doubt it will help anything since those bootlegging can easily jump to another theater or whatever.
Old 02-01-05, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Masamune
This doesn't count in Canada or the UK I assume. This is US only it seems. Oh well, I don't buy DVDs unless I see em in stores. I'm too lazy, lol..
While your particular laws obviously don't apply in the UK, we actually do have similar laws over here. However, it's more about film classifications because in the UK certifications are a legal requirement rather than guidance (no unrated over here ).

Essentially - it is okay for us to import DVDs for personal use, so long as those DVDs do not contravene any UK censorship laws (mainstream releases don't, it's only underground stuff which might).

However, it is illegal to sell DVDs in the UK which have not been classified by the BBFC (British Board of Film Classification) and do not bear a BBFC classification. Hence, any UK supplier selling R1 DVDs has to store them in another country and ship them from there. Some obviously don't, but pretend to and get away with it. However, others are not so lucky - one retailer was recently busted for this and closed down (InterDVD).

The official line, from BBFC.co.uk FAQs:

I want to sell foreign DVDs in the UK...

A foreign DVD offered for sale in the UK is likely to be illegal under the Video Recordings Act (VRA) 1984 unless its content (including any additional material) has been classified by the BBFC. The DVD must also be labelled in accordance with Video Recordings (Labelling) Regulations 1985 &1998 (including the unique registration number). You would also be advised to contact FACT to ensure that there are no copyright issues.
I want to import foreign DVDs for my own personal use...

The Video Recordings Act 1984 (VRA) makes it illegal to supply any video or DVD within the UK which has not been classified by the BBFC. There are some exceptions to this (eg educational works or works predominantly concerned with sport, religion and music) but all feature films and TV programmes must be classified.

Although it is not a customs offence to import an unclassified video or DVD it must be for your personal use only and the content must not breach the prohibition on the importation of indecent and obscene material which reflects other UK law (eg Obscene Publications Acts 1959 and 1964, Protection of Children Act 1978).

You are therefore entitled to purchase unclassified videos or DVDs whilst abroad, provided they contain no illegal material and are solely for personal use.
On top of this, retailers who do sell R1 DVDs are breaking contracts with the studios, which is related to that stuff stated in small print on the back cover of all Region 1 DVDs about being for sale in the US and Canada only.

Last edited by Squirrel God; 02-01-05 at 10:18 PM.
Old 02-02-05, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by El-Kabong
How people can defend a policy like that boggles the mind.
I don't see any problem with this law about importing, it has little to do with theft or even copyright, even though it is part of the copyright code. It has to do with sales and distribution rights and a bit about importation and it has everything to do with protecting US companies' rights to get profit from selling items that may be imported. You can find laws all over the books about import/distribution rights. You may find this offensive, as Kabong's next comment shows, which is fine.

You want to know why this should be acceptible? Let's do a comparison. Go to a little town with a Walmart, see all the closed little shops that Walmart forced out of business? If only they would enforce the damn laws on this kind of situation. It's really the same thing. The import laws protect US companies (theoretically) the same way the laws SHOULD HAVE protected those small retailers.

It has taken longer for people to see the problems with our democratic system, but it is certainly there. Corruption comes much faster with other govt systems, but it's always the same. If only.....



Now, the ad is misleading and is designed to scare individuals from buying overseas, just as the silly region coding is in the first place. I don't like that ad, but then I don't like any advertising. It is all designed to deceive. I only like ads for entertainment value, like Superbowl ads. The one with Andy Roddick buying an extra airplane ticket for his tennis trophy is priceless, but it sure won't sway me one way or the other on acquiring an AmEx card.
Old 02-02-05, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Jackskeleton
I really doubt it will help anything since those bootlegging can easily jump to another theater or whatever.
The thing is, a lot of theater owners would have special screenings the first night of, or the Thursday before, release and let bootleggers in (assumably charging them extra). Or, at least, this was the apocryphal concern that prompted this tactic. So if one theater is bootlegged once, it's not so big a deal. Maybe they say "Hey, get more secure!" But if the same theater is being consistently bootlegged, and the bootlegs obviously come from private screenings with no crowd making noise, something is clearly wrong at that theater.
Old 02-02-05, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Spiky
You want to know why this should be acceptible? Let's do a comparison. Go to a little town with a Walmart, see all the closed little shops that Walmart forced out of business? If only they would enforce the damn laws on this kind of situation. It's really the same thing. The import laws protect US companies (theoretically) the same way the laws SHOULD HAVE protected those small retailers.
Which laws should have protected the small businesses? I know you don't mean the importing/copyright ones, but I don't know which ones you actually mean.
Old 02-02-05, 02:49 PM
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"Unauthorized" does not equal "illegal".
Old 02-02-05, 03:08 PM
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what a joke... why does MPAA even have that on their page if it isn't illegal? Just a scare tactic??
Old 02-02-05, 03:46 PM
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Nobody notice the offer to download the PC scanner for spying on your relatives and friends private files?

I'm finding people like the UK/US government, the MPAA, the RIAA and the like far more scary than Al Queda or people wanting to fly planes into our tall buildings. Private companies (MPAA) seem to have the full support of the US government to do anything they like and wrap it up in horribly stiffling laws mixed with scare tactics and disinformation.

Anti-West terrorists (which we help breed) want to kill us. I can relate to that. Our tax money is going to people who want to control us until we are that fat and stupid we will be scared to go out of the house.

That's something we should all be scared about as it's about removing freedoms and the right to think and do things wrong and to be responsible.
Old 02-02-05, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Spiky
You want to know why this should be acceptible? Let's do a comparison. Go to a little town with a Walmart, see all the closed little shops that Walmart forced out of business? If only they would enforce the damn laws on this kind of situation. It's really the same thing. The import laws protect US companies (theoretically) the same way the laws SHOULD HAVE protected those small retailers.
Ironicly, you've just proved my point. More choice is *ALWAYS* better than one, or none. The consumer should be able to buy from walmart, the mom and pop stores, online or wherever they please. To reduce the choices down to one source is a bad thing.

That's what the studios are trying to do - close off the world and make them buy from ONE source. If another store (or in this case, another country) can provide the better service at a better price, then I should be free to take my money there.

(and for the record, I would hardly call the MPAA and RIAA a mom-and-pop operation that's in danger of being driven out by an 800 pound gorillia).
Old 02-02-05, 06:11 PM
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El Kabong said Quote:

Ok stealing is not quite the right word. But Corporate America is trying to run roughshod over my rights to buy what I want from wherever I want (AKA outside the US). No, they haven't said "It's illegal!" - but they're trying really, really hard with little dog and pony shows like this one. They are trying to scare the populace into acceptance and compliance.

How people can defend a policy like that boggles the mind.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BritTVfanMidwst
Isn't it a shame that the greatest so-called democracy in the world is SO AFRAID of the opinions of people in other countries that ANY and ALL representations of the culture of those countries are stopped at the border? How stupid can you get.

Its not so much that they're afraid of the culture, its a desire for control and of shameless greed. They don't want you to import Final Fantasy XXIII from Japan 8 months (or Battle Royale from the UK, or whatever) before it's release in the US shores, because The US Studios don't get a cut of the pie. Somebody else gets your money, and not the people that count.

That's why they're scared. That's why they seek to impose these artificial limitations on us - it's all about the Washingtons at the end of the day. :UNQUOTE

Okay, you're right-- it's corporate GREED rather than government fear of othe cultures.

However, it still bothers me on a number of levels!

1) As far as I can tell the vast majority of MOVIES are released in the US first (the exception being foreign films that have a place of origin other than the US). The MMPA wants to force non-US dwelling movie fans to WAIT to get their copies of American films until they are cleared for region 2 (or 4 or whatever) so the DVD does NOT come out prior to distribution of the movie to theaters.
THIS MAKES NO SENSE-- the MMPA is actually *preventing* sales -- (1) At least in the UK, most DVD players are sold as multi-region. There is a HUGE market for American films (and music, and TV shows) in the UK. By making it more difficult to export films, the MMPA is actually reducing sales.

2) Punitive laws restricting IMPORTs (to the US) will eventually led to other countries passing laws restricting imports (from the US). Import/export is a tit-for-tat business and it always has been. IF/When the US restricted imports of cars from Japan in the 1970s, Japan most probably reacted by restricting the sale of American goods in Japan (such as clothing, blue jeans, etc).

3) I actually, *personally* (and I know others on this forum feel differently) have no desire to buy American films from overseas because they are released here first anyway. The REASON I bought a multi-region player was to watch British television DVDs and that's it! (Which is WHY I needed a machine that would convert PAL-- I could care less about the region, about half the PAL DVDs are not even coded/region 0--but I needed PAL conversion). The title of this thread and the MMPA warning *is designed to make me think I'm actually breaking the law by watching "The Professionals" in the privacy of my home (or reading a British edition of "Harry Potter" for that matter). To be frank--this pisses me off. I think I SHOULD have the right to read whatever I want, and to watch whatever I want-- I'm an adult for pete's sake!!!

Re: Buying stuff early--- The ONLY thing I might buy early before it's available in the US is *Doctor Who*-- and so far I have ***actually waited*** for the NTSC releases and NOT actually purchased this series in PAL. ALL my actual purchases from Region 2/0 and in PAL have been series that are not available in the US and in all probability ***NEVER will be***. No one in the US (not even Warners who own the US rights for "Doctor Who") are willing to reformat the following series in NTSC and sell them in the US. No studio/distribution company has even TRIED selling them in the US because they assume no one is interested!

EXAMPLES
Blake's 7 -- No NTSC version exists
The Professionals --No NTSC version exists
Randall and Hopkirk, deceased (2000 version) --No NTSC version exists
Brass -- No NTSC version exists
A Very Peculiar Practice --No NTSC version exists
Robin of Sherwood -- No NTSC version exists (I don't have the PAL version yet)
Etc, etc, etc I could probably list 100 titles available from Amazon UK that aren't available in the US from ANY retailer.
Interestingly-- "Dept S" (which like RoS I desperately want) isn't available from the UK-- I'd have to get a PAL copy from Australia or a Secam one from France.

I'm guessing that you Anime/Hong Kong Action flick fans out there could post similar lists of stuff that YOU want that you can't buy in the US because it simply isn't available in a Region 1/NTSC version-- it's available in whatever region coding applies to Japan and/or Hong Kong, right?


Corporate America is beginning to REALLY really anger me--and I'm beginning to think it's about time the average consumer fought back! After all-- not allowing you to purchase something, is a form of censorship.

--Brit TV fan
Old 02-02-05, 06:22 PM
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Spiky said quote: You want to know why this should be acceptible? Let's do a comparison. Go to a little town with a Walmart, see all the closed little shops that Walmart forced out of business? If only they would enforce the damn laws on this kind of situation. It's really the same thing. The import laws protect US companies (theoretically) the same way the laws SHOULD HAVE protected those small retailers.

It has taken longer for people to see the problems with our democratic system, but it is certainly there. Corruption comes much faster with other govt systems, but it's always the same. If only..... :Unquote

I have a problem with Walmart as well! Their tactic of INVADING small towns, running everybody out of business, then raising prices and dropping wages is absolutely disgusting, in my opinion it's UN-American, and if the US government wasn't owned lock-stock-and-barrel by Corporate America, it would have been stopped long ago. (This doesn't even get into all the OTHER problems with Walmart-- their anti-union attacks up to and including the intimadation and even murder of union organizers, the blatent sexual harrassment and abuse of female workers, the insanely low wages and the lack of any sort of health care for employees). To me Walmart is the epitome of coporate greed and anti-human rights! I NEVER SHOP THERE AND YOU SHOULDN'T EITHER!

You're right-- those laws should be used to protect the little guy and stop villians like Walmart (that's what the LAW is for-- to protect those who *can't* protect themselves)-- however the US government has shown over and over again, especially under the current adminstration that it's the walmarts of America that get the protection and the little guy can literally go screw themselves. (and small business owners continue to vote Republican because it's supposedly "pro business"-- does anyone else see a *problem* with that?)

--Brit TV fan
Old 02-02-05, 06:46 PM
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Kl-Kabong said Quote:
Ironicly, you've just proved my point. More choice is *ALWAYS* better than one, or none. The consumer should be able to buy from walmart, the mom and pop stores, online or wherever they please. To reduce the choices down to one source is a bad thing. :Unquote

BUT-- Walmart has an unfair advantage (a VERy unfair one): Walmart can and DOES run new stores in rural areas/small towns with prices BELOW COST --until they have literally run all their local competitiors out of business--AND THEN THEY RAISE COSTs.
The local mom and pop store simply cannot local their prices below Walmart's prices and stay in business-- it's not possible. Part of the reason is the buying in bulk discount that applies to almost all materials in retail. BUT the other part of the reason is that Walmart will actually UNDERCUT even bulk prices and operate a store AT A LOSS until the competition folds, then raise prices and make as much profit as they want. (They can do this because Corporate Walmart isn't operating at a loss, only one store out of hundreds is-- the huge profits of other stores overcome the one store's lost on the corporate balance sheet).

To help you understand; let's say you own Kabong's Towels and Linens in Small Town Kansas USA

Cotton Towels 100 blue towels your cost $10.00 each your sale price: $12.00/each (net profit; $2.00 per towel, minus overhead so say $1.40 per towel)

Walmart buys cotton towels: 1000 blue towels (their cost $8.00). If Walmart sells the towels at $12.00 they are already making DOUBLE your profit ($4.00 minus overhead)
But what Walmart will do is sell the towels at $5.00 each.
The (albeit stupid) residents of Small Town, KS suddenly decide to buy $5.00 towels from Walmart instead of your "expensive" $12.00 towels. Gradually you lose business. Eventually you are forced to close your business.
Once you do close your business-- Walmart will raise the price of towels to $16.00 (still buying them for $8.00) doubling their profit AGAIN, and your local residents will have no place else to buy towels except at the now inflated Walmart price.

THAT is why it's unfair!

Quote:
That's what the studios are trying to do - close off the world and make them buy from ONE source. If another store (or in this case, another country) can provide the better service at a better price, then I should be free to take my money there. :unquote

NOW this I agree with-- but then I've always thought "isolationism" a dam* fool policy, short-sighted in the extreme. (Any punitive action taken against another country WILL be rebound on you, eventually, and probably magnified).

"Better service, better price" -- Within REASON yes-- as long as everyone is playing by the same rules.

--Brit TV fan

By the bye-- ALL of this is why I SELDOM make purchase decisions on PRICE alone. Often when I buy thru' an e-retailer instead of locally it is because I cannot buy a specific item locally.

True story: I wanted the "Barenaked for the Holidays" Barenaked Ladies Christmas CD for Christmas. I didn't get it. In January I went to THREE, count them, THREE local stores asking for the title (figuring that in January I'd get it for a song in someone's after-Christmas sale bin). NONE of the local businesses had it! The clerk at the largest record store in my town (a) refused to special order a Christmas cd, (b) told me the title was out of print.
I went home and ordered it from Amazon.com that day! I was particularly annoyed at the clerk at the large music store in town who refused to do a special order for me. (I told him I'd order from Amazon, and he STILL refused, and came up with "it's out of print" to avoid doing the work).
Trust me-- I don't even feel *guilty* about ordering from Amazon under those circumstances. Local businesses should at least be providing superior customer service.
(And my local Suncoast actually does-- they KNOW me, and the clerks will special order whatever I want. So I buy stuff from them INSTEAD of on-line. Sometimes I even spend more money at Suncoast, because if I didn't Suncoast would fold--well, it's local store would fold).

--Brit TV fan
Old 02-02-05, 06:49 PM
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BritTVfanMidwst -- how are you quoting people? Either your vB code is messed up or something else is going on... your posts are very hard to read. I can't tell where the quotes end and you begin.
Old 02-02-05, 06:53 PM
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Squirrel God--

Maybe you could explain the British rating system to me? I REALLY don't get it. Some of my Brit TV discs actually have TWO numbers listed for ratings-- AND they are different ones. I've also seen it where different seasons (series) have different ratings! This makes absolutely NO sense to me.

If you want specific examples, I'll provide them, just let me know.

signed,
dazed and confused Brit TV fan
Old 02-03-05, 12:35 AM
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Originally Posted by El-Kabong
In the "Would you bust someone selling copied DVDs" thread, someone asked just what the MPAA was doing that was 'stealing from us'. Ladies and Gents, I give you exhibit A!

So I think I feel a paradigm shift in my feelings about copying discs coming on. As long as they keep trying to pull this shit, I'll download music guilt free and I'll copy movies guilt free. Fuck the studios. Fuck them up their stupid asses.
I just made up some nonsense to justify getting movies and music for free!
Fixed.

Originally Posted by Daniel Windsor
Nobody notice the offer to download the PC scanner for spying on your relatives and friends private files?
No, but I noticed the program that cleans your computer of any file sharing programs and any media files that may or may not be copyrighted material, but prompts you to verify the deletion beforehand. Also, it does not share that information with anyone except the home user. Also, it's called "Parent File Scan," not "Relatives and Friends File Scan." So, no, not scary.

Last edited by Breakfast with Girls; 02-03-05 at 12:37 AM.
Old 02-03-05, 01:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Kris81
Marry a Canadian...
...suggestions?

Pro-B
Old 02-03-05, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Breakfast with Girls
Fixed.
No justification nessassary. I'm at peace with stealing music, because the industry are a bunch of rat bastards who care more about squezing a couple more pennies out of their product.

On the other hand, I have always said that if I were to meet the members of Duran Duran on the street, I would gladly give them 5 bucks each (which is about 95% more than they get from the record industry) for all the music I've enjoyed. But the suits who control the music cartel? Fuck 'em. They keep CD prices artificialy high, they price fix, they do their best to screw artists, they straight up lie about the state of the industry (like claiming record losses even though CD sales have been pretty strong this year), and they cling to an outmoded distrobution system and attack their consumer base instead of adapting to change.

Why I should have anything but contempt for them?

So yeah, I have no problem downloading music and being upfront about why I do it. Kinda takes the wind out of your "witty" dismissal of my argumemnts. Sucks to be you, I guess.
Old 02-03-05, 04:31 PM
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People, I agree these laws are over the top, poorly designed, poorly enforced (that's the good part), etc. But stuff like this:
Originally Posted by Vandelay_Inds
Do these people think they are the new Inquisition, telling whole countries what culture they can and cannot experience?? It should be illegal to prevent anyone around the world to read/watch/listen to anything he/she so desires (unless it is expressly prohibited, like child porn, etc.).

I hate the MPAA a little more every day...
Try to pay attention. These laws predate DVD. They are not about DVD. They are not about media or censorship. The MPAA is not the government. The laws are about protecting trade and distribution rights, not speech or other crap so commonly foisted on DVDTalk. No, really. Try reading them. Go ahead, you can even read between the lines, you will still see corporate buying issues, not free speech.

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