This has to be one of the worst looking DVD's ever. Worse than some of the very first discs ever made(ie. Blade Runner). This movie deserved much, much better, it was absolutely gorgous to watch in the theatre.

Oh come on dude. That is completely unfounded. BR is much worse looking, or even Highlander (the original 10 year anniversary release). I'll admit it isn't as good as I'd hoped, but it's not as bad as you make it out to be.

And I completely agree with you Josh. The sky is definitely not falling like everyone on the web thinks.

Wild hyperbole like this is absolutely worthless. If you're going to complain that the disc looks bad, I want you to provide specific, quantifiable examples. Saying "It looks like crap because it does, so there" helps no one.

Conspiracy theories aside, while this transfer is certainly not the disaster some reviews would want you to believe, it remains mediocre by today's standards. I've seen worse but it's watchable. As far as what score you want to give it, I personnally don't believe it deserves more than 3 or possibly 3 1/2 stars using my (the site I work for) analysis grid. I do however understand that the analysis grid used would vary from site to site and that some might be more lenient than others.

rotfl

What a joke!!! Tell me your being over the top sarcastic. If not, perhaps the huge disparity of opinions is that there were two different masters used / pressings.

The dvd looks great on my ISF'd 57" HDTV however I do prefer my Japan LE Box set.

I tend to agree with Mike...

Got around to spinning the Miramax DVD this morning... IMHO, it's not as bad as some of the reviews made it out to be. Nor is it particularly stunning for that matter. Granted, I'm not watching it on a projector (yet, I'll spin it later this week on one of the projectors here at work) but it did look mostly solid on my 16X9. Don't think I noticed any EE, or it was minimal. Some grain I can live with, a digital mess on the other hand... Not the best transfer that I've ever seen, but hardly the worst.

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDCompare7/hero.htm
Now the comparison includes the R1.

I rented the Miramax disc this past weekend, and compared it against my copies of the Edko and GDFACE theatrical cut.

You can call me crazy. In fact, I must be downright insane. :eek:

Thanks for the link. From that comparison, the Miramax version is only a little bit worse then the Elite Group version, and better then the others in the comparison, in my opinion. And hardly the "disgrace" of a transfer that some people were clamoring about.

Thanks for the link DrGerbil. Having seen the screencaps from the other versions, the Miramax version is not as bad as it has been made out to be in my eyes anyway. Since I'm not able to obtain the Elite Group version of the movie, I will keep the Miramax version.
However, this does not excuse Miramax for treating this movie so bad. First, they delay the release of this movie for almost two years and after a successful theatrical run, they treat the DVD with an awful cover and average transfer.

They have to start doing better than this and start treating Asian films with more respect.

I forgot one thing, looking at the screencaps, the subtitles on the Miramax version seems to be different than the rest of the other releases. Besides being the awful yellow colour, does anyone know if Miramax have made changes to the translation of this movie? If this has been discussed already, I'll appreciate it if you can direct me to the appropriate thread.

Looked fine to my non-videophile eyes.

"All Under Heaven" is "Our Land" in the Miramax version. There are probably other minor wording changes in the translation, but that's the only significant one, AFAIK.

As for subtitle color, I've always preferred yellow to white. For one thing, you're less likely to have the subtitles on top of the same color, making them difficult to read (see: the pure white, non-bordered hard subs in Schindler's List). Moreover, yellow isn't as glaring when over a very dark background (this is subjective, of course, but I think yellow on black is easier on the eyes and less distracting from the movie itself than white on black). Most anime DVDs use yellow subtitles for dialogue, so maybe that's why I'm used to it, but it seems yellow has some distinct advantages. A disadvantage would be that it might clash with similar colors on screen, but I've never been aware of or distracted by that.

In what ways is the Miramax disc inferior to the Edko or GDFace copies? "It just is" doesn't cut it as an explanation.

Josh, I take back what I said earlier in the thread. I shouldn't have been too quick to judge the quality of the disc based on the itty bitty screencaps on other sites. You're right.

This is just as good - if not better - than the Edko and GDFace discs.

I finally had a chance to do a crude A:B:C comparison with the r1 against the r3hk and the r2j. Of course, the former two don't even stand a chance against the video quality of the latter (which has the most accurate color rendition and contrast levels), but the r1 has the edge over the r3hk because its got correct 3:2 pulldown flags.

Another comparison:

http://www.wuken.com/screencaps/hero/hero.html

The r1 appears to be using the same source as the Edko and GDFace discs, which I am not particularly happy with, but at least it's at the level of previous efforts, if albeit a tad brighter. The end result is not abysmal at all.

It looked to me like the brightness and contrast were pumped up in the Miramax verison, along with some unusual "grittiness" that didn't appear to be grain but more like digital noise. I don't think it was abysmal, nor do I think it was as bad as at least some of the reviews claim (nor as bad as much of Miramax's recent work).

(CAVEAT: but if I'd made this sort of comparison on an audio forum, concerning music, my thoughts would immediately be dismissed. Mostly for failing to compare in a double-blind situation, and particularly as I was predisposed against the disc, but also because I'm using a single player and the time it takes to change discs and cue up the scene in question is enough time to exaggerate/minimize flaws as one remembers them.)

Seeing the screencaps on Gary's site gave rise to two questions: is the sort of digital noise that some of us are seeing (or perhaps it's film grain?) readily apparent on a still shot, or does one need to see it in motion to distinguish? And, more interestingly, while the R2 Japanese discs looks to my eyes to be superior to all others, the more natural color timing is exclusive to this disc. I'm thinking in particular of the fight sequence within the circle of the Qin army, which is tinted very blue in every transfer save the Japanese (all the colors are more natural on the Japanese disc, but this sequence in particular stands out for me). I'm not certain how one would know which is more accurate, the closest to Zhang's intention, but it is a fairly great distinction between this one and all the other transfers.

Great DVDB compare. As I thought, a direct comparison against the other R0 and R2 releases shows the pic quality isn't too far from the top. And the R1 DTS mix has the nod as well. I am quite content with my R1 purchase of it :)

Based on the screen caps at DVDBeaver, the Miramax version doesn't look as bad as the reviews implied, and is at least as good as the R0 and R3 versions, but the R2 version's colors definitely look better, especially noticeable on the shot with the waterfall. My question now is, how are the Miramax subtitles compared to the other versions? Other than the Our Land/All Under Heaven issue, is there very much difference? That may be the deciding factor for me since I don't want to have to go through the trouble of importing the R2 disc if possible (plus it's more $$$).

I haven't seen the R2 Japan disc in action, but based on those screencaps I'd actually say that the picture on that disc looks dark and muddy in comparison to the others. Especially the shot on the lake, where you can barely see Tony Leung's character, whereas the blue of his robe pops right out on both of the other discs.

I totally agree that one really needs to see these transfers "in motion" to really get a feel for the differences, but I think the Japanese-R2 is easily the best, my only qualms being the question of color timing as this release is rather unique in that respect. IMO, this is the only transfer that gets brightness and contrast levels right (or at least righter than all the others, and particularly Miramax).

R2 muddy? But even on these tiny little caps the additional detail of the R2 disc is apparent! I think the most obvious indication of this are the caps showing Zhang Ziyi's character just after being run through by Maggie's sword. Look at all the details in the trees behind her, the very small branches and leaves. Much of this detail is blasted out on the other releases (especially Miramax's). Also look at the strands of Zhiyi's hair.

Fine detail is also obscured in the other caps (including what otherwise appears to be natural film grain in the R2), but it's somewhat less obvious. "Zoom shots" would be very helpful, and I suspect would reveal a great deal of lost detail comparing the other transfers to the r2... the sort of detail that's quite apparent on a 50" and larger screen, and much less so on a 27-incher and much, much less so on these teeny tiny screencaps.

The r2j is the most accurate as far as color rendition goes. I've seen the film in theaters three times, twice at the Arclight Cinemas here in Los Angeles and once at its U.S. premiere in Palm Springs in 2003. The other releases are too bright, with the wrong color timing, and have too hot of a contrast IMO. Unfortunately there is no way to prove this to others online. You'll just have to see it in theaters and recall from memory.

But regardless, just look at the screenshots I've provided. You can see more natural-looking leaves in the first shot. Skin colors in the second and third shots for the r2j are great, with the other regions giving the actors a unfortunate jaundiced look. In the fourth shot the trees at the far end of the lake are the right shade of evergreen (tell me, have you ever seen a lake THAT BRIGHT?). And the last shot is _supposed_ to be incredibly red.

Conversely, look at how much less detail there is in the Emperor's armor in the third shot because it is obscured by darkness in the Japanese transfer. The hat on the servant bowing next to him almost completely blends into the background also, whereas it is clearly visible in the others.

No one is forcing you to buy the Japanese disk. If you want the R1 or the R3, with it's ghosting, go for it. I recall DVDfile gave the R3 very high marks.

:lol:

I suspect you may have your brightness settings too low. My monitor has been calibrated with the Avia Guide to Home Theater DVD. Everything on the r2j is readily visible and clearly delineated from where I stand.

You can also use this: http://www.fragileocean.com/monitor.htm

I think since Josh is a reviewer that he may have his monitor calibrated correctly ;)

As he said, the R2 shot does blend in some of the background a bit with darker objects.

Of course. ;) Just checking, though, since everything looks perfectly fine on my end. This may be just a matter of taste.

I didn't say they were. We're allowed to discuss the relative merits of the screen caps.

Being that I wrote that review, I think I would have a good idea of what I said. I scored the disc a 2.5 out of 5 and complained about the softness of the image, dull colors, and mediocre compression.

Here's the link:

http://www.dvdfile.com/software/revi...on_3/hero.html

Just a quick follow up on this... I ran the Miramax disc through a projector, prog scan, blah blah blah, at work last night. Set it for an 8' image... For the most part, the PQ seemed pretty solid. Still moments of grain (particularly in the end sequences) and a general softness in some scenes, but the EE and any digital noise still seemed pretty minimal. So all in all, I have to agree that the transfer is not as bad as some people have made it out to be... And it works for me. That said, I also have no frame of reference i.e. the color timing or brightness of the transfer, since I did not see Hero in the theater.

Odd, I think the R2 colours are off, myself. The waterfall is a perfect example. It's practically white. Sure, it's very realistic, but that wasn't what I remember in the theatre. The colours were spectacular, because of the way they stood out.

And the R2 shots on wuken there are so dark, you can hardly see anything. You can't even see the blue dress in the lake scene.

I'll willingly go R1 now.

I hate to sound like a broken record but I can see the blue dress perfectly on my monitor. As well as on my RPTV. Go ahead and blast your monitor's brightness settings all the way up. The detail is still there in the r2j. Sometimes, it even has a bit more. Also check DVDBeaver's screencaps.

The r2j has no ghosting, hardly any of the "grain" in the r1, IMO accurate color rendition, in some instances more detail, better contrast, deep black levels, and is less cropped. I bought Hero DVD after Hero DVD searching for the perfect transfer after first seeing the film in theaters. I finally found it in the r2j, which I absolutely treasure. I really don't know what else to add. I don't mean to come across as trying to convince anyone not to buy the r1 or r3hk - they're more than welcome to if they want - but I'm going to have to disagree here with those who think the r2j is inferior.

Before seeing Hero in the theaters, I saw clips from a digital version of it. So, I was mildly disappointed with the picture quality on film in the US theatrical release.

The R1 DVD is what I remember from the digital clips I saw earlier. Yes, there is some noticeable grain. But, I thought it looked pretty good. btw, I have a component video hookup if that matters any.