La Dolce Vita Cover and Features
#76
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Originally posted by pro-bassoonist
The coverwork looks decent. I own the Italian 2DVD-SE though and am pretty happy...
However...I am quite a bit curious to see what the transfer of this edition will look like. Hopefully it is not a PAL to NTSC port....
Looking forward to it.....
Pro-B
The coverwork looks decent. I own the Italian 2DVD-SE though and am pretty happy...
However...I am quite a bit curious to see what the transfer of this edition will look like. Hopefully it is not a PAL to NTSC port....
Looking forward to it.....
Pro-B
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Originally posted by pro-bassoonist
With this said I challenge you to listen to visiting European orchestras (if you happen to be in Chicago, LA, NY,Boston) they all perform at 441-444 pitch base. American orchestras perform at 338 often even lower. Not once have I heard someone complaining about the pitch difference. Keep in mind that a difference of 436-442 equates in a much bigger discrepancy than what you would encounter in a PAL to NTSC conversion which is arguably around 4%.
Pro-B
With this said I challenge you to listen to visiting European orchestras (if you happen to be in Chicago, LA, NY,Boston) they all perform at 441-444 pitch base. American orchestras perform at 338 often even lower. Not once have I heard someone complaining about the pitch difference. Keep in mind that a difference of 436-442 equates in a much bigger discrepancy than what you would encounter in a PAL to NTSC conversion which is arguably around 4%.
Pro-B
If I buy a cd of a recording from the analog era, and it's been remastered so that it's a half step off, I think I have the right to be upset, and I certainly notice the problem. Obviously I'm less prone to react the same way to film soundtracks, but this is one of them.
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As per previous posts from MR Hinsley (and me), we only had the PAL master to work from. Therehore you know better than I that the PAL speed-up is presentin our version just like it is in the Medusa version.
It is unfortunate that we did not have better source material but we worked with what we were able to obtain from the rights holder
Hope this helps.
It is unfortunate that we did not have better source material but we worked with what we were able to obtain from the rights holder
Hope this helps.
#79
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Originally posted by V Morante
As per previous posts from MR Hinsley (and me), we only had the PAL master to work from. Therehore you know better than I that the PAL speed-up is presentin our version just like it is in the Medusa version.
It is unfortunate that we did not have better source material but we worked with what we were able to obtain from the rights holder
Hope this helps.
As per previous posts from MR Hinsley (and me), we only had the PAL master to work from. Therehore you know better than I that the PAL speed-up is presentin our version just like it is in the Medusa version.
It is unfortunate that we did not have better source material but we worked with what we were able to obtain from the rights holder
Hope this helps.
Apparently not. Maybe the film should be retitled Fellini's 96/100.
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I, for one, am extremely happy to finally have a region 1 release of this film. Am I happy that it's sped up by 4%? Of course not, but I'd much rather have a good sped up PAL transfer than an inferior/incomplete NTSC version.
I was very pleased with the work Koch Lorber did on the Umbrellas of Cherbourg release, and look forward to adding La Dolce Vita to my collection as well.
I was very pleased with the work Koch Lorber did on the Umbrellas of Cherbourg release, and look forward to adding La Dolce Vita to my collection as well.
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I work in film post-production and have often had to deal with the PAL/NTSC problems. It used to be a real pain, but recently we have been making something called Slow PAL conversions. This is basically what was suggeted earlier: each PAL frame is treated as a film frame and converted with the usual 3:2 pulldown. This solves the problems listed above.
I don't understand why a dvd company that clearly is interested in putting out the highest quality disk would not use this technique. It does need to be done digitally, but it doesn't have to be too expensive. You can load the PAL master into an Avid Symphony with no compression and then output a version at the corrected rate in about six hours total (since it's a long film). I do the same thing on a standard Avid film composer all the time - although the best it will do is 14:1 compression.
Sometimes I am amazed by how technical these discussions become.
I don't understand why a dvd company that clearly is interested in putting out the highest quality disk would not use this technique. It does need to be done digitally, but it doesn't have to be too expensive. You can load the PAL master into an Avid Symphony with no compression and then output a version at the corrected rate in about six hours total (since it's a long film). I do the same thing on a standard Avid film composer all the time - although the best it will do is 14:1 compression.
Sometimes I am amazed by how technical these discussions become.
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Ugh. Yeah, it sounds like Koch doesn't have the budget to invest in an Avid Symphony or the equipment necessary to re-sequence PAL transfers to the NTSC frame rate.
I think I'm going to pass on this release based on what I've read here. It's a damn shame, because this is one of my most anticipated titles. If I'm going to have to deal with PAL speedup I may as well just get the R2 version that's natively PAL - at least I won't have to deal with the ghosting that the NTSC conversion will introduce.
I think I'm going to pass on this release based on what I've read here. It's a damn shame, because this is one of my most anticipated titles. If I'm going to have to deal with PAL speedup I may as well just get the R2 version that's natively PAL - at least I won't have to deal with the ghosting that the NTSC conversion will introduce.
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Originally posted by jough
If I'm going to have to deal with PAL speedup I may as well just get the R2 version that's natively PAL - at least I won't have to deal with the ghosting that the NTSC conversion will introduce.
If I'm going to have to deal with PAL speedup I may as well just get the R2 version that's natively PAL - at least I won't have to deal with the ghosting that the NTSC conversion will introduce.
Pro-B
Last edited by pro-bassoonist; 06-25-04 at 04:29 PM.
#86
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You guys are hilarious.
I remember when I had an old worn-down VHS of LaDolceVita in pan-'n-scan, no less and I still loved it. I was just happy with what I could get. And I'll be happy with a PAL to NTSC conversion as well. Is it perfect? no, but my god, it's freaking good enough to enjoy the movie all the same.
I remember when I had an old worn-down VHS of LaDolceVita in pan-'n-scan, no less and I still loved it. I was just happy with what I could get. And I'll be happy with a PAL to NTSC conversion as well. Is it perfect? no, but my god, it's freaking good enough to enjoy the movie all the same.
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My point is that there's already a PAL version out that looks really good from Medusa.
The R1 version will probably look much like this, only with ghosting and jitter added!
So I guess I'll buy the R2 and rent the bonus disc of the R1 for the extras. I'd much rather buy the R1 from Koch but as I said, unless reviews are really good, what I've heard here will not encourage me to pre-order this title.
The R1 version will probably look much like this, only with ghosting and jitter added!
So I guess I'll buy the R2 and rent the bonus disc of the R1 for the extras. I'd much rather buy the R1 from Koch but as I said, unless reviews are really good, what I've heard here will not encourage me to pre-order this title.
#88
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Originally posted by slop101
I remember when I had an old worn-down VHS of LaDolceVita in pan-'n-scan, no less and I still loved it. I was just happy with what I could get.
I remember when I had an old worn-down VHS of LaDolceVita in pan-'n-scan, no less and I still loved it. I was just happy with what I could get.
It wasn't until the Medusa disc that I was satisfied that I could finally watch the movie at home.
#89
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Originally posted by slop101
You guys are hilarious.
I remember when I had an old worn-down VHS of LaDolceVita in pan-'n-scan, no less and I still loved it. I was just happy with what I could get. And I'll be happy with a PAL to NTSC conversion as well. Is it perfect? no, but my god, it's freaking good enough to enjoy the movie all the same.
You guys are hilarious.
I remember when I had an old worn-down VHS of LaDolceVita in pan-'n-scan, no less and I still loved it. I was just happy with what I could get. And I'll be happy with a PAL to NTSC conversion as well. Is it perfect? no, but my god, it's freaking good enough to enjoy the movie all the same.
Mind you, the first time I saw Vertigo was during a Jesuit college film appreciation class and they had it in a black and white 16 mm version. It still made me fall out of my seat. I didn't know until years later it was shot in colour... BUT WE ALL GROW UP!!!
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Originally posted by slop101
You guys are hilarious.
I remember when I had an old worn-down VHS of LaDolceVita in pan-'n-scan, no less and I still loved it. I was just happy with what I could get. And I'll be happy with a PAL to NTSC conversion as well. Is it perfect? no, but my god, it's freaking good enough to enjoy the movie all the same.
You guys are hilarious.
I remember when I had an old worn-down VHS of LaDolceVita in pan-'n-scan, no less and I still loved it. I was just happy with what I could get. And I'll be happy with a PAL to NTSC conversion as well. Is it perfect? no, but my god, it's freaking good enough to enjoy the movie all the same.
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First, I would like to thank the representatives from Koch Lorber for coming on the board and offering input.
Nevertheless, I will have to politely decline the purchase of La Dolce Vita. There are so many other films out there on DVD that I love which have been treated properly that I'll always choose to pick one of them up instead of a film with a less than perfect transfer. I'm willing to wait unitll someone transfers it properly. Nice try guys
Nevertheless, I will have to politely decline the purchase of La Dolce Vita. There are so many other films out there on DVD that I love which have been treated properly that I'll always choose to pick one of them up instead of a film with a less than perfect transfer. I'm willing to wait unitll someone transfers it properly. Nice try guys
Last edited by Pants; 06-28-04 at 04:52 PM.
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In the new brochure announcing (NYC's) Film Forum's Summer/Fall Screening Schedule, they advertise a "NEW 35mm PRINT!" for the July 23rd-August 5th run of La Dolce vita.
At the bottom of the listing are the words A PARAMOUNT RELEASE.
So, if Paramount holds both theatrical distribution rights and video distribution rights*, we very well could see a Paramount DVD (which would undoubtedly derive from an NTSC master using the elements utilized for the new 35mm print). This may also explain why Koch Lorber had no access to the best elements for their transfer. Stay tuned ...
* It's unclear to me how both Paramount and Koch Lorber could legitimately own the DVD rights to the same film in Region 1. It may be that the dispute over the DVD rights has been resolved by an agreement hammered out by their corresponding legal departments (perhaps allowing Paramount to retain the theatrical distribution, and limiting Koch Lorber's DVD rights to a small window--say 1 year, after which Paramount could release its own DVD of the film). Or it may be that no agreement was reached, and the companies plan to go head-to-head with competing DVD releases (in which case, Paramount better get cracking before KL steals their thunder). All pure speculation ...
Paramount's Martin Blythe has declined to comment on the situation, and I doubt that our friends from KL can shed any light either.
At the bottom of the listing are the words A PARAMOUNT RELEASE.
So, if Paramount holds both theatrical distribution rights and video distribution rights*, we very well could see a Paramount DVD (which would undoubtedly derive from an NTSC master using the elements utilized for the new 35mm print). This may also explain why Koch Lorber had no access to the best elements for their transfer. Stay tuned ...
* It's unclear to me how both Paramount and Koch Lorber could legitimately own the DVD rights to the same film in Region 1. It may be that the dispute over the DVD rights has been resolved by an agreement hammered out by their corresponding legal departments (perhaps allowing Paramount to retain the theatrical distribution, and limiting Koch Lorber's DVD rights to a small window--say 1 year, after which Paramount could release its own DVD of the film). Or it may be that no agreement was reached, and the companies plan to go head-to-head with competing DVD releases (in which case, Paramount better get cracking before KL steals their thunder). All pure speculation ...
Paramount's Martin Blythe has declined to comment on the situation, and I doubt that our friends from KL can shed any light either.
Last edited by FilmFanSea; 06-28-04 at 04:54 PM.
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Yeah, I passed on seeing the Paramount print last month in Los Angeles at the American Cinematheque, and the month before that at the Nuart. Now I'm kicking myself.
Anyway, perhaps Paramount has the video rights as well, and releases a DVD as fantastic as Once Upon A Time In The West
Anyway, perhaps Paramount has the video rights as well, and releases a DVD as fantastic as Once Upon A Time In The West
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Originally posted by FilmFanSea
In the new brochure announcing (NYC's) Film Forum's Summer/Fall Screening Schedule, they advertise a "NEW 35mm PRINT!" for the July 23rd-August 5th run of La Dolce vita.
At the bottom of the listing are the words A PARAMOUNT RELEASE.
So, if Paramount holds both theatrical distribution rights and video distribution rights*, we very well could see a Paramount DVD (which would undoubtedly derive from an NTSC master using the elements utilized for the new 35mm print). This may also explain why Koch Lorber had no access to the best elements for their transfer. Stay tuned ...
* It's unclear to me how both Paramount and Koch Lorber could legitimately own the DVD rights to the same film in Region 1.
In the new brochure announcing (NYC's) Film Forum's Summer/Fall Screening Schedule, they advertise a "NEW 35mm PRINT!" for the July 23rd-August 5th run of La Dolce vita.
At the bottom of the listing are the words A PARAMOUNT RELEASE.
So, if Paramount holds both theatrical distribution rights and video distribution rights*, we very well could see a Paramount DVD (which would undoubtedly derive from an NTSC master using the elements utilized for the new 35mm print). This may also explain why Koch Lorber had no access to the best elements for their transfer. Stay tuned ...
* It's unclear to me how both Paramount and Koch Lorber could legitimately own the DVD rights to the same film in Region 1.
Basically, theatrical rights and home video rights have nothing to do with each other. That's not to say that they can't belong to the same company, but they certainly don't have to. For instance, a number of re-issues have had theatrical showings under the KINO or RIALTO umbrellas, that have ended up as Criterion DVDs ("I Vitelloni from Kino, now a Crit. DVD). The fallout from Cowboy Pictures failure has caused some of these odd pairings. To my knowledge, Koch Lorber doesn't present theatrical showings. Wellspring did -- including a really crappy theatrical print of "Ran" which rivaled the awful "restored" DVD. There are certain companies that are much less likely to license DVD rights to an independent company (for DVD, that is), but European films often are not owned by those companies, and they change hands more frequently (as far as US theatrical and video rights).
So, Paramount does not own DVD rights, and probably wouldn't pursue them. I think most would say at this point, it's a shame Criterion wasn't able to secure DVD rights.
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Originally posted by unclehulot
Basically, theatrical rights and home video rights have nothing to do with each other. That's not to say that they can't belong to the same company, but they certainly don't have to. For instance, a number of re-issues have had theatrical showings under the KINO or RIALTO umbrellas, that have ended up as Criterion DVDs ("I Vitelloni from Kino, now a Crit. DVD). The fallout from Cowboy Pictures failure has caused some of these odd pairings. To my knowledge, Koch Lorber doesn't present theatrical showings. Wellspring did -- including a really crappy theatrical print of "Ran" which rivaled the awful "restored" DVD. There are certain companies that are much less likely to license DVD rights to an independent company (for DVD, that is), but European films often are not owned by those companies, and they change hands more frequently (as far as US theatrical and video rights).
So, Paramount does not own DVD rights, and probably wouldn't pursue them. I think most would say at this point, it's a shame Criterion wasn't able to secure DVD rights.
Basically, theatrical rights and home video rights have nothing to do with each other. That's not to say that they can't belong to the same company, but they certainly don't have to. For instance, a number of re-issues have had theatrical showings under the KINO or RIALTO umbrellas, that have ended up as Criterion DVDs ("I Vitelloni from Kino, now a Crit. DVD). The fallout from Cowboy Pictures failure has caused some of these odd pairings. To my knowledge, Koch Lorber doesn't present theatrical showings. Wellspring did -- including a really crappy theatrical print of "Ran" which rivaled the awful "restored" DVD. There are certain companies that are much less likely to license DVD rights to an independent company (for DVD, that is), but European films often are not owned by those companies, and they change hands more frequently (as far as US theatrical and video rights).
So, Paramount does not own DVD rights, and probably wouldn't pursue them. I think most would say at this point, it's a shame Criterion wasn't able to secure DVD rights.
1. In December 2003, the New York Times reported that there was a dispute between Koch Lorber and Paramount over the ownership of DVD rights to La Dolce vita:
Sometimes, ownership is in dispute. Last February, a new video company, Koch-Lorber, announced that one of its first DVD's would be "La Dolce Vita" by Fellini. The company had bought the rights from a small company called International Media Films, which claimed it owned the movie.
But Paramount Pictures claims that it owns "La Dolce Vita." A legal battle is brewing. Koch-Lorber's DVD has been delayed. Paramount, meanwhile, is reportedly preparing its own DVD.
But Paramount Pictures claims that it owns "La Dolce Vita." A legal battle is brewing. Koch-Lorber's DVD has been delayed. Paramount, meanwhile, is reportedly preparing its own DVD.
2. Given the paltry potential income from a limited arthouse re-release, what could have possessed Paramount to purchase the theatrical distribution rights only, and to strike a new 35mm print if not to promote a planned DVD release (where the real money is to be made)??? Are you aware of any other major studio which has purchased theatrical distribution rights alone for a foreign art film?
Last edited by FilmFanSea; 06-28-04 at 08:05 PM.
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Thanks, I missed that one. I was just assuming that the Paramount distribution arm sprung for the prints (since Koch Lorber doesn't deal in that area, to MY knowledge). Paramount is a mystery to me regarding foreign film on DVD. I can't imagine they wouldn't have had the clout (or money) to have procured this if they wanted to. Considering that, in general, they don't go for big SE's of foreign films, but rather go for cheap bare bones releases, it's hard to say which release would have been superior. Certainly, the transfer would have been done in native NTSC, but the extras might have been slender. This possibly DOES explain why Koch Lorber had to go to a PAL source since Paramount might be sitting on the best 35mm material in the US right now.
Don't you think that the dispute has been settled in (our out of) the courts, accounting for the delay, and that Paramount has backed off of any claims for the video rights now?
All the more reason for me to see it at Film Forum next month while I'm in NYC!
Don't you think that the dispute has been settled in (our out of) the courts, accounting for the delay, and that Paramount has backed off of any claims for the video rights now?
All the more reason for me to see it at Film Forum next month while I'm in NYC!
Last edited by unclehulot; 06-28-04 at 09:13 PM.
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I saw this thread just today and I have read it carefully and I understand that I have to delay one more time buying La Dolce Vita. I won't by Medusa for 3 reasons
1 - extras stinks
2 - Medusa's owner
3 - PAL
The restored film was shown last year in Cannes and then in Italy and now I read it is shown even in the US, so Koch Lorber had not access to the restored 35mm print because someone else - Paramount - hold the rights to that copy. Since the money are in the DVD business it makes no sense that Paramount bought the theatrical rights forgetting the DVD rights.
Be as it, I'll be patient, to be patient is the only method to be an happy DVD collector!
1 - extras stinks
2 - Medusa's owner
3 - PAL
The restored film was shown last year in Cannes and then in Italy and now I read it is shown even in the US, so Koch Lorber had not access to the restored 35mm print because someone else - Paramount - hold the rights to that copy. Since the money are in the DVD business it makes no sense that Paramount bought the theatrical rights forgetting the DVD rights.
Be as it, I'll be patient, to be patient is the only method to be an happy DVD collector!
#99
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Originally posted by mdm67
The restored film was shown last year in Cannes and then in Italy and now I read it is shown even in the US, so Koch Lorber had not access to the restored 35mm print because someone else - Paramount - hold the rights to that copy. Since the money are in the DVD business it makes no sense that Paramount bought the theatrical rights forgetting the DVD rights.
Be as it, I'll be patient, to be patient is the only method to be an happy DVD collector!
The restored film was shown last year in Cannes and then in Italy and now I read it is shown even in the US, so Koch Lorber had not access to the restored 35mm print because someone else - Paramount - hold the rights to that copy. Since the money are in the DVD business it makes no sense that Paramount bought the theatrical rights forgetting the DVD rights.
Be as it, I'll be patient, to be patient is the only method to be an happy DVD collector!
Don't know whether Paramount or International Media correctly own the video rights to La Dolce Vita. However, video rights (at least by geography) will belong to one or the other.
A compromise is not out of the question. If the loser of the video rights can offer up video rights of other films that tempt the other group - anything can happen.
However, I agree with the point that Paramount did not restore the print just so it can make the film circuit. Obviously (right or wrong) the money is in the video sales of the restored print.
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Originally posted by unclehulot
Considering that, in general, they don't go for big SE's of foreign films, but rather go for cheap bare bones releases, it's hard to say which release would have been superior.
Considering that, in general, they don't go for big SE's of foreign films, but rather go for cheap bare bones releases, it's hard to say which release would have been superior.