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To all Criterion Aficionado's. How can you spot a real or fake "The Killer" C.C. DVD?

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To all Criterion Aficionado's. How can you spot a real or fake "The Killer" C.C. DVD?

Old 06-11-03, 11:53 AM
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If I were you I'd ask her for a scan of the actual item, she's only using a cover art picture. The fact that she's changed her description makes her guilty in my opinion. Many people sound sincere, answer your questions, etc but are really just trying to cover up the scamming. She wants you to post feedback to sway other bidders into thinking she's selling the real thing.

For this title, see it to believe it or buy from a more reputable seller who will offer an immediate money back guarantee.
Old 06-11-03, 12:51 PM
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Just wanted to update the good people out here about my Criterion Killer purchase from this seller. I can't come out here to often because of the long, sometimes crazy hours I work. But wanted to let everyone know that i "did" get my refund from this seller. I have received numerous e-mails from people about this dvd, asking if it's authentic or not? Well I'm just telling them what I did,and what I would suggest they do. Unfortunety, one buyer who ended up winning the Criterion Salo dvd for $355, asked me about her Criterion's after he won it. I told him my experiences, and what he should do if he receives it and it's a bootleg, or maybe what he should do before she even sends it out, like I did. Well this good fella forwards what I say to him, to the seller. Next thing I know she's sending me threatening e-mails that she's going to report me to Ebay for telling people that she sells bootlegs, and all that good stuff. Is it just me, or was it very wrong for that person to have "ratted' me out to her like that? That was a low-thing to do in my opinion. And also makes me reluctant to tell anyone else if they happen to e-mail me asking the same question? But, people have been sending me e-mails, and I've still been telling them what I think. She swears up & down that these are authentic. She told this other buyer in an e-mail that someone forwarded to me from her, that she has 20 Killer, (sealed, no-less) Criterions for auction, and what's the big deal because she's a collector. Is that stupid or what? And also has 3 sealed Hard Boiled, which I don't know if there's any boots of that one out? And that 1 Criterion Salo, guess what? Sealed. big surprize there? No one has left any other feedback except one person saying that she sells bootlegs, on her feedback. She responds by saying deadbeat, don't even pay for auction and harasses me, (or something like that?) I'm figuering, it's probaby not harassment, it's probably someone asking her the same questions everybody else has, and they found out that maybe she sells boots? Of course he isn't gonna pay for that? I don't know, I'm interested in seeing what other people leave for feedbacks? I couldn't imagine these being authentic, with that many sealed ones, no less, for sale?
Old 06-11-03, 12:58 PM
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The plot sickens..you just don't keep 20 copies of Killer Criterion DVD lying around to sell 3 or 4 years after it's gone OOP....or maybe you do. Baffling..
Old 06-11-03, 01:09 PM
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Sounds like a" Killer" boot to me. I have been waiting for a Salo with the warning sticker to hit ebay for some time with no luck. That is one I would rather have an open copy to verify it.
Old 06-11-03, 01:15 PM
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The plot sickens. It sure does. lol. And you're right, it is quite baffling? I can't figuere this woman out for the life of me? I can't believe she said, What's so strange about having 20 Killer Criterion's to sell, I'm a "Collector". Did anyone happen to read her description for her Criterion Salo dvd? It said something like, This dvd is sealed, it comes with the insert and has the "White Ring" on it. I bought it many years ago as an investment, (or something to that effect?) it's authentic because I'm a collecting maniac. Wow, i didn't know that? I guess it must be authentic then if she's a "collecting maniac" huh? Take out the "collecting", and that would probably describe her better. And how would she know if it has the "White Ring" or insert if it's sealed? Maybe she has x-ray vision? I don't know? And how would she know if it was going to be an investment if she purchased it many years ago? Who would have figuered this dvd to have the OOP status that it does now, back then? Too Many "if's" with this seller.
Old 06-11-03, 01:22 PM
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Darth Maul: I'm not to much up on the Criterion's so much as I would like to be. Could you please explain what you mean about the Salo with the warning sticker on it? I don't know what that is? Thanks!
Old 06-11-03, 05:08 PM
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The guy who forwarded your e-mail was an idiot.

Tell her to send you a Salo and Killer and you'll authenticate them and tell the emailers what you find. You'll keep the Killer for your fee and return the Salo.
Old 06-11-03, 05:58 PM
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Originally posted by Giallofan
Darth Maul: I'm not to much up on the Criterion's so much as I would like to be. Could you please explain what you mean about the Salo with the warning sticker on it? I don't know what that is? Thanks!
Sure thing. One thing that Criterion lacked in the early days of dvd is consistancy. By this I mean that some discs could have different shrinkwraps(loose or tight), SE stickers and some titles such as Spinal Tap, Salo, Killer and Hardboiled either did or didn't have security stickers on the top of the case. This is why is is hard to authenticate some of the titles which sellers still claim to be factory sealed. I could re-shrinkwrap my Killer dvd using a simple 10.00 home kit and claim I bought it that way and it would be almost impossible for a buyer to prove otherwise. This still happens today to many of their in print titles as well. Last month I went to Barnes and Nobles and found two copies of Alphaville. One was neatly shrinkwrapped very tight and the other was horribly loose as can be. For all I know the store may have put out a returned disc. I wish I knew why a company such as Criterion doesn't have more order to their titles like the attention that is given to the Spine Numbers.

Now identifing a sealed Salo as authentic is just about impossible today b/c of the bootlegs. However, Criterion did happen to use a Black Warning Sticker, something like "Explicit Content: No One Under 18 Should see this" on a lot of the discs they printed. It is usually placed on the upper right hand corner of the keepcase I believe, not the shrinkwrap. I have talked to Jon M. about this somewhat famous sticker and he believed it was possible that some went out with them while some did not. This is why I suggest not blowing the cash on a sealed copy without that sticker. It is too much to loose to get a bootleg. Now the sealed copies with the sticker used to come up on Ebay back in late 2000-2001 all the time. Now you never see them. However it is the most expensive disc of them all. I have only seen one on Ebay in the last 6 months and it went for around 550. The sellers feedback looked shady so I didn't bid. Personally, I am waiting for an open copy with this sticker as it is the last OOP title I want for my collection.

I will look around and see if I can find pics of this sticker for you. Also, if you find a copy of the Killer on Ebay and need help finding out if it is real let me know or email me. If it is real most sellers would do their best to keep open communication with you.
Old 06-11-03, 08:19 PM
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Thanks DarthMaul, I appreciate all that info. I would love to get a Killer Criterion someday, but I'm gonna do my homework next time. I will certainly contact you if I have questions about one. Talking about Salo, I think there's one on Ebay right now, that's either almost over or has a day or so to go? Last time I looked though I think it was up to $500 already, and like 50 bids on it. Some people are having a bidding war I guess?

I was just out at Best Buy and was looking for the new Criterion release, "By Brakhage", but they didn't have it. I see that number is like spine 187? I think that's right? How do they determine the order of how these come out? Like aren't there higher spine numbers that are out than that one, or maybe I read the spine # wrong on the Criterion HomePage? I assumed they came out in order by number? I just have alot to learn about this company I guess? I did however pick up Monty Pythons: Life Of Brian on Criterion at Best Buy. Get this, this is the second time this has happened to me, but the first time being a Criterion. They had 3 copies of Python's dvd there on Criterion. 2 of them were marked $37.99, and 1 was marked $14.99. Which one do you think I grabbed? The lady cashier scanned the back, and it came out as $37.99, but I said hold on there, it says on the sticker that it's $14.99. So she looks at the stickr, it says Monty Python on it, nothing else. So then I say, there's a few more over there, and I can go. But before I got anything else out of my mouth, she says, no that's ok Sir, I'll just put it in as an error, and put the real price in because sometimes we mark them down, and maybe this one got missed in the scanner that the employees use? Something like that. I was going to tell her that a few more were over there, and I'd go recheck the price again, maybe they said something different than what this one said for a price? If she let me do that though, I think I would have been paying the full price? So it's lucky that she interupted me, and gave me it for that. I would have argued the point though that it was wrongly priced and maybe they would have had to give me it for that anyway? Sorry about all the rambling. I was just really happy for the price I got it for. Then when i tell my friend about it, he says man, that ones oop. I said no way, I don't think they would have had it there if it was? He got me all going though until I got home and saw otherwise. But still it was a great deal that I was happy to take.
Old 06-12-03, 06:01 PM
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Believe it or not, I have watched the seller of that Salo disc for the last year. He purchased it on Ebay last year, in an auction I was bidding in, and next thing I knew I saw the same user name trying to sell it on Amazon.com. If I am correct he tries to purchase OOP discs at a descent price and then resells them. I know of a couple infamous ebay sellers who do this.

Now I am not sure how the Spine Numbers are picked but I know that they,the numbers, don't always come out in the correct order. Sometimes certain Director's films will be released at the same time and Criterion will assign them closer numbers such as the Woo films and a few of the Hitchcocks. Grand Illusion was said to be the film selected to grace number 1 before they even began working on it.

Now you received a good price on Life of Brian. I have to wonder if they screwed up letting you have it at 14.99. This is how much I would suspect they would have the Anchor Bay version listed for.
Old 06-12-03, 06:21 PM
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I went back to Best Buy just a little while ago, to look at the other "life of Brian" Criterion's. You're right about the Anchor Bay dvd's of this title. The 2 other Criterion ones were marked $37.99, and there were 5 Anchor Bay releases of the title there, and they had them for the same price I got mine for, $14.99. My only guess is that somebody mistaked one of the Criterions for the AB release when they marked them? They all had the same type of price tag on them, saying just Monty Python, and nothing else distinguishing them from AB to Criterion. Except of course the price tag on them. I'm certainly not going to complain about it. I just couldn't believe my eyes yesterday when I saw that it said only $14.99 on it. That could have been on any Criterion title, and if it said $14.99, I would have scooped it up if I wanted it or not.
Old 06-12-03, 06:26 PM
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Giallofan, if you want, I can email you several photos of the Killer CC. Make sure you have enough space in your email account. LMK
Old 06-12-03, 06:41 PM
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Yes, i would like that, could you please? Thank you.
Dean
Old 06-12-03, 07:31 PM
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Well hello everyone,
my 1st post, and I had to come in on this Criterion Killer discussion, as I have recenytly found out that it is one hard dvd to sell, My dvd is an origanal, and I bought it only a few months after it was released for $45, I am in the UK, and this is expensive for a dvd, well it was back then. I have recently found I now have a better version of the Killer, a company called Hong Kong Legends in the UK released a better version, so I put mine up for sale.
But selling it is imposable, everyone thinks its a bootleg! I know its not, but to prove it is imposable, mine is apperently a boot because of one reason, the reason being, the white ring in the centre of the dvd well its not white on mine! its the same colour as the wording and blood.

So I ask you How is it really possable to ever prove that your IS real. I have been only selling mine on one small UK site, and intrest was only by a few people, but still with the bootleggers out in force across the world, how can someone like me ever sell anything, when people are so sceptical about it being a bad copy?

mine was cheaper than ebay versions at $80, but was that too low, as personally I would never pay as much as some of you are willing to pay, unless it was something really special.
Old 06-12-03, 08:24 PM
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Originally posted by Romerojpg

So I ask you How is it really possable to ever prove that your IS real. I have been only selling mine on one small UK site, and intrest was only by a few people, but still with the bootleggers out in force across the world, how can someone like me ever sell anything, when people are so sceptical about it being a bad copy?

mine was cheaper than ebay versions at $80, but was that too low, as personally I would never pay as much as some of you are willing to pay, unless it was something really special.
First, welcome to the board. That goes to all the new members that posted in this thread!

You are right about bootleggers. In the case of many OOP titles they have managed to lower the resale values of many discs real sellers want to sell. A perfect example is the Anchor Bay Dawn of the Dead Director's Cut dvd. The boots out of Korea, I believe this is where they originated from, really damaged the resale value of this as there are tons of the boots as well as being really hard to distinguish from the ABay disc.

You say you have a real Criterion "Killer" with no white fosted Center. Jon M has responded to this question a few times if my memory serves me correctly. I believe he said something to the effect of it is possible that some might have been pressed without the white ring, but he didn't have any copies of it around the offices to check. So this is why collectors will probably only want the white frost version. Much like my example of the Salo dvd with a sticker, people want to be sure of what they are getting before spending over 150+ on a dvd. I suggest hanging onto your copy as "The Killer" will probably be re-released by other companies, such as HK Legends as you mentioned, numerous times. It probably won't be worth nearly as much in the future.
Old 06-13-03, 09:42 AM
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Found this on the Criterion Forum:Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Jon,

I hope you can help me with this. I don't want buy a bootleg or imported version.

I am still looking for an Killer Criterion DVD and as you are probably aware of there are many imports and bootlegs.
I want to buy an original US released version.

So far I know that the disc itself shouldn't be with coloroured printings.
But I have now run into two person's who both claim to have an authentic version. I have named them person 1 and 2.
With my e-mail you'll find two images of both persons of their Killer Criterion DVD.
From what I know the printings (title, other text and blood) on the disc should be black if faced straight above the disc. But if you look in a certain angle it becomes grey (like the color of the disc).
This is the case with the images of person 1. However with the images of person 2 it always stays grey.

Could you please point out what to me what the real version is so I know for the future what to look for.

Thanks a lot.

Best,
Robert-Jan

-----------------------------------------------
Dear Robert-Jan,


The few copies of THE KILLER we have around the office have silver text and blood imagery on a silver disc. None have black text on silver. However, this does not definitely mean that a disc with black text is a bootleg. Perhaps some were printed with black text (although I tend to doubt it).


Hope this helps.
JM

--------------------------------------------------

More details:
In the meanwhile I found out that an original should indeed have grey text and blood as JM points out,
but when you hold a light above it (like a lamp) the grey text and blood turns to black!

Hopes this will help all of you who is still looking for a authentic Killer Criterion DVD.

Robert
Old 06-13-03, 09:52 AM
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Thanks for the help.

Well I provided answers to every question the person wanting to buy mine wanted answered, I even took photos of it from many angles, and in the end the deal fell thru as he said, he was going to buy a bootleg version to compare to my pictures! now thats logic for you? crazy person if you ask me, why buy one bootleg, when it may be completly different to mine?strange.

Still I have had mine a long time now, and it is still a great dvd, its just when you have too many dvds, you need to start thinking of making a bit of room, and I will be refering everyone who wants to buy my dvd in the future (if anyone ever wants it) to this helpfull part of the site, it will save me time explaining everything to do with this bootleg problem.

keep up the good work.
Old 03-31-05, 11:10 AM
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I recently got one off half.com and it looks legit, except for one major thing: the center ring appears clear (maybe slightly grey) but definately not frosted white. I emailed the dude at Criterion and he'son vacation until next week. Are there any other indicators on the disk itself that can confirm it's legitimacy?

Upon further inspection, it does appear to have the mirror ring, if that means anything. I am beginning to feel bad about the email I sent the seller since now it appears it may be legit.

Last edited by dick_grayson; 03-31-05 at 11:16 AM.
Old 03-31-05, 11:16 AM
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How much did you pay for it?
Old 03-31-05, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by BrentLumkin
How much did you pay for it?
a lot (150). I can get the $$$ back, if necessary. The center ring is indeed mirrored and there's the "nimbus" thing on the playing side. the whole packaging appears to be the real deal, but you can never be too sure with these things.
Old 10-12-05, 02:55 AM
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ttt
Old 10-12-05, 03:02 AM
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huh

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