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Watched Ichi the Killer 4 times, still have questions (warning: spoilers)

Watched Ichi the Killer 4 times, still have questions (warning: spoilers)

 
Old 02-25-04, 12:57 PM
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Watched Ichi the Killer 4 times, still have questions (warning: spoilers)

Okay, I bought this movie and I enjoyed watching it. I knew, part way, through the first viewing, it was the type of movie I would have to watch a few times to understand all of it. Now I have watched it 4 times and am completely desensitized. However, there still a few items I don't "get".

1. The guys that came to kill Mr. Suzuki, when he was in the hospital bed (the ones that got the phone call to not kill him, @ the last second)...Where did they come from? Who did they work for?

2. And I realize this is completely subjective, why do you think Jijii hung himself in the end? Guilt? Redemption?

3. Who was the kid/young adult, @ the end, after they showed Jijii hung?

Anyway, just some questions I had. I hadn't seen this discussed in any of the Ichi threads. If it was in fact discussed, I appologize for overlooking it.
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Old 02-25-04, 01:06 PM
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moving to movietalk........oh wait.
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Old 02-25-04, 01:25 PM
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1. I believe they worked for Jiji. Not 100% sure, though.

2. I believe Jiji hung himself because he had nothing left to live for. There were no more yakuza to exploit for profit/punish, and even if there was, his weapon, Ichi, is no longer useful.

3. The son of Ichi's "brother". He walks with a limp to suggest he is the next Ichi (Ichi was shot in the leg).
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Old 02-25-04, 01:30 PM
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I thought the Son of Ichi's "brother" (Takeshi, I think) was killed by Ichi. You see Ichi holding the scalp of someone, and you don't see the little kid kicking him anymore.
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Old 02-25-04, 01:33 PM
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Originally posted by vincew
I thought the Son of Ichi's "brother" (Takeshi, I think) was killed by Ichi. You see Ichi holding the scalp of someone, and you don't see the little kid kicking him anymore.
That entire scene was imagined in Kakihara's head.

Once Kakihara realized he wasn't going to get his dream of a glorious blood filled battle to the death with Ichi, he put those giant spikes in his ears to block out his crying by destroying his ear drums. Instead of the reality of Ichi lying there crying like a child, he imagines Ichi killing the child and then killing him as he dies a glorious death with a kick to the head and a plummet from the roof to the ground.

That's why when you see Jiji lift up his hair, there is no cut. Because he didn't fight Ichi, he simply leaped to his death.
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Old 02-25-04, 01:41 PM
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I agree with all of that KSC2-303, but one thing has always bugged me. If all of that was in Kakihara's head why did Jiji specifically look for the wound on Kakihara's head and then was so upset when it wasn't there? If Kakihara imagined it how would Jiji know to look for it? Maybe everything that happens is all in Jiji's head, lol.

Last edited by welb25; 02-25-04 at 01:46 PM.
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Old 02-25-04, 03:41 PM
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Originally posted by KSC2-303


2. I believe Jiji hung himself because he had nothing left to live for. There were no more yakuza to exploit for profit/punish, and even if there was, his weapon, Ichi, is no longer useful.

That's what I thought. But on the UK R2 DVD commentary, associate producer Eliot Tong says:
Spoiler:
Kaneko's son kills Jiji by hanging him, saying that's why we see the boy walking away from Jiji's swinging corpse. He also says Kaneko's son - sorry forgot his name - had kicked Ichi to death.

I don't know if I see either event that way, but that's what one of the producers says.


Now I wanna know what's up with the crow at the end. Is it like a "crows carry the souls of the dead" thing or what?
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Old 02-25-04, 04:57 PM
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Originally posted by welb25
I agree with all of that KSC2-303, but one thing has always bugged me. If all of that was in Kakihara's head why did Jiji specifically look for the wound on Kakihara's head and then was so upset when it wasn't there? If Kakihara imagined it how would Jiji know to look for it? Maybe everything that happens is all in Jiji's head, lol.
Well, I think that he became very familiar with Ichi's...style, for lack of a better term. He looked at the body and saw no real abnormal damage (Ichi as you well know tends to either butcher people completely, or surgically cut them, like when he killed the prostitute by slitting her throat), and realized that Kakihara's death wasn't caused by Ichi.

Originally posted by Luther Heggs
That's what I thought. But on the UK R2 DVD commentary, associate producer Eliot Tong says:
Spoiler:
Kaneko's son kills Jiji by hanging him, saying that's why we see the boy walking away from Jiji's swinging corpse. He also says Kaneko's son - sorry forgot his name - had kicked Ichi to death.

I don't know if I see either event that way, but that's what one of the producers says.


Now I wanna know what's up with the crow at the end. Is it like a "crows carry the souls of the dead" thing or what?
I suppose all of that COULD have happened, but either way, what I said is basically the same thing, the producer was just much more specific. There is nothing the producers did to tell you what exactly happened, you're just supposed to speculate.

As for the crow, I think it's just a symbol. A crow is death, it lurks around the child, who is walking under a hanging corpse. With all that death around him, it's not that odd to think he's 'ni' (Ichi is Japanese for 'one', ni is Japanese for 'two', the second killer).
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Old 02-25-04, 05:50 PM
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That's a common thread with Miike's films, you can interpret them in more than one way.
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Old 02-25-04, 06:47 PM
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Si Ichi didn't really kill the boy, the boy killed him then the boy killed/ hung the older guy? I wondered why there was no mark in the blondes' head. But the blonde guy wasn't dead? They showed him smiling at the end with the huge grin? Thank's for clearing up most of the ending. The other scene that was a bit confusing was when the cop bought Ichi food. They kept switching from the 2 of them alone to the blonde behind them, to a child & father (cop & son or Ichi as a boy?). I couldn't figure out who was talikng about what there. It didn't help that the boy's voice sounds like a 30-year-old guy either.
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Old 02-26-04, 09:47 AM
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The cafe scene was part flashback. Anjo (I think) took the x-cop in, when he needed help. So the whole scene, he's flashing back between he and Anjo, he and his son, and the present, he and Ichi. Kalihara is only there when the x-cop was flashing back to his encounter w/ Anjo. I think it was Anjo, @ least. It was either Anjo or Ichi's number 1 guy. I hope this helps.
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Old 02-26-04, 10:18 AM
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Thank you for this thread...I rented Ichi and was really confused after watching it. I need to pick this one up as I liked it a lot and it needs much further perusal. My question is, if Kakihara lept to his death off of the building, what was up with the bath house like scene with him smoking on the cigarette, very much alive and looking prtty smug. Was it him in the "afterlife" so to speak finally at peace? Just a thought.

Jonathon
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