Go Back  DVD Talk Forum > Archives > Archives > DVD Talk Archive
Reload this Page >

Widescreen TV Owners

View Poll Results: Do you ever crop/compress/spread 4:3 DVDs to fit your widescreen TV?
No! Never! Who do you take me for?!
108
49.77%
Occasionally
36
16.59%
All the time
73
33.64%
Voters: 217. You may not vote on this poll

Widescreen TV Owners

 
Old 02-02-04, 01:27 PM
  #76  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Dela-where?
Posts: 836
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by baracine
... You forgot Dolby 5.1!

This thread does not have as a goal to convert the irreductibles like you but to vent the hypocrisy of "purists" who don't own a widescreen TV but still insist they would slavishly adhere to the principle of OAR if they did, which means fidelity to a ratio (1.33:1) that is only one of 91 possible and historical ratios, according to the book "Wide Screen Movies" by Carr and Hays.

As you can see by the poll results, despite the very probable great number of uninvited non-owners who have posted their vote (and therefore lied) for ideological reasons, I think I have demonstrated that stretching has become a way of life for the majority of widescreen TV owners, whether you like or not, and not just because we are all uneducated and uncultured yahoos who voted for Bush and drive SUVs.
I can understand someone who stretches the image to prevent burn-in. However, I can't understand why someone would be so enthusiastic about it. Then again, it's just my opinion, which is just as valid as your opinion. I think a debate about this would be stupid because there's no way anyone will change their minds. As long as the movie is available the way I prefer it, more power to you.
Tafellappen is offline  
Old 02-02-04, 01:46 PM
  #77  
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: "Sitting on a beach, earning 20%"
Posts: 6,154
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
I only use "Stretch Mode" when I'm watching my home made porno movies.

It makes my penis look bigger.
Pants is offline  
Old 02-02-04, 02:11 PM
  #78  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,389
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by baracine
As you can see by the poll results, despite the very probable intrusion of a great number of uninvited non-owners who have posted their vote (and therefore lied) for ideological reasons, I think I have demonstrated that stretching has become a way of life for the majority of widescreen TV owners, whether you like or not, and not just because we are all uneducated and uncultured yahoos who voted for Bush and drive SUVs.
Just...Wow...

So you are saying that the majority of people who have voted in an opposing view to yours are liars. I would just say that the majority is less vocal, but today there have been many posts from those who do not stretch.

I think it is time to lock this thread down.
Qui Gon Jim is offline  
Old 02-02-04, 02:13 PM
  #79  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Dark City
Posts: 4,218
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
I don't use it for movies but I occasionally use it for TV viewing when I have company. Most people I know prefer to see the entire screen filled up. I don't really mind, since I was used to watching widescreen movies on my 4:3 tv before I got my widescreen one. I will tell you that I really enjoy watching 1.85:1 movies now because of the new TV's. Sometimes, when I have to make a choice between buying two movies that I want, I will chose the one that looks better on my widescreen TV.
chente is offline  
Old 02-02-04, 02:35 PM
  #80  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
lizard's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: the Western Slope, Colorado
Posts: 7,944
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally posted by The Void
...Overall, burn-in gets way too much attention. If you properly set your contrast and vary your viewing, burn-in shouldn't be a problem.
I agree. Once one has the TV adjusted out of "torch" mode and one watches varied aspect ratio material, the risk of burn in should be minmal. The caveat in the owner's manual is just CYA for the manufacturer against people who don't do the above.

I admit I am surprised by the responses to this thread. I have a 57" Toshiba and I tried the various stretch modes when I got it, hated them, and watch my 4:3 DVDs with grey bars (I don't watch regular TV on it, just DVDs). I do stretch end credits and menus at times. But that's all. Guess I ought to try the stretch modes again sometime, since so many seem to like them.
lizard is offline  
Old 02-02-04, 02:54 PM
  #81  
Suspended
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3,039
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally posted by lizard
"torch" mode
I always wondered what the technical term for it was.
baracine is offline  
Old 02-02-04, 03:00 PM
  #82  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
lizard's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: the Western Slope, Colorado
Posts: 7,944
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally posted by baracine
I always wondered what the technical term for it was.
Don't know who originally came up with "torch mode", but the term is used a lot in the DVD Hardware forum. Certainly is evocative, is it not?
lizard is offline  
Old 02-02-04, 03:03 PM
  #83  
Suspended
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3,039
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally posted by Sean Cullen
I can understand someone who stretches the image to prevent burn-in. However, I can't understand why someone would be so enthusiastic about it.
That reminds me of my biology teacher in Jesuit College who used to tell us boys, it was "OK to get the occasional boner while studying anatomy, but you shouldn't derive any pleasure from it."

Last edited by baracine; 02-02-04 at 03:44 PM.
baracine is offline  
Old 02-02-04, 03:08 PM
  #84  
Suspended
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3,039
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally posted by Qui Gon Jim
So you are saying that the majority of people who have voted in an opposing view to yours are liars
You know very well that is not what I said. I said you have to factor in - and there is no way to keep out - the wandering non-owners of widescreen TVs who voted in this poll because they hold opposing views and understand the question to be "Should one stretch 4:3 images in widescreen?" and not what it is, namely: "Do you stretch 4:3 images in widescreen?.
baracine is offline  
Old 02-02-04, 04:52 PM
  #85  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,389
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by baracine
You know very well that is not what I said. I said you have to factor in - and there is no way to keep out - the wandering non-owners of widescreen TVs who voted in this poll because they hold opposing views and understand the question to be "Should one stretch 4:3 images in widescreen?" and not what it is, namely: "Do you stretch 4:3 images in widescreen?.
By that argument, you would have to disqualify voters on both sides.
Qui Gon Jim is offline  
Old 02-02-04, 05:22 PM
  #86  
Suspended
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3,039
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally posted by Qui Gon Jim
By that argument, you would have to disqualify voters on both sides.
No. Because you can't imagine and I can't imagine anyone who didn't own a widescreen TV voting for the "All the time" option "just on principle" in view of the orthodox, witch-burning mentality that surrounds the 4:3 into 16:9 question that practically had me expelled (by you) from the "Alice in Wonderland ... Full Frame???" thread.
baracine is offline  
Old 02-02-04, 05:31 PM
  #87  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Johnny Zhivago's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Korova Milkbar
Posts: 5,435
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
baracine - Dunno if you ever got the answer to your question, or if this is what you were looking for... But... Like I said back in post #2... One of my players generates black bars on 4X3 material. It's a Panasonic F85S via to my 47" Panny. The F85 models produce black side bars for 4X3 material and they will windowbox non-anamorphic letterbox - which is one of three reasons that I have one of those players in my rack. DVD-A support and 4X3 side bars being the others...
Johnny Zhivago is offline  
Old 02-02-04, 05:52 PM
  #88  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,389
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I guess my point is why would anyone lie? I realize I am not going to change your mind. My main beef is that you more or less told me that since the "expert salesperson" told you something (that is happening in my living room) can't be, I must be mistaken. I don't know how much you research a big purchase like a WS TV, but I did a lot of homework. I checked the specs on the TV and the player. I know exactly what it can do and I know how the technology works. I learned as much as I could about HT before I got involved. I listened.

I am also mature enough to have been burned by "salespeople" promising something, or threatening something that I just don't trust them anymore. I go in armed with the knowledge of exactly what I want to buy. Salesmen are not your friends. They hate an informed shopper, and they see marks coming a mile away.

Like many others, I was trying to offer you an option to get away from the grey bars which I agree are more distracting than black ones. Try stepping back from the defensive stance and listen and learn from the opinions of those here and other forums that have lots of experience with this stuff. There are dozens of people here I would ask a technical question before I would ever think of asking a salesman. You treated me like I was speaking a different language when I was using what are generally accepted nicknames for common components such as PS2, Panny and so on. You turned your lack of knowledge around on me instead of doing a little checking on your own. You know what? It is a different languge. Like any hobby there are acronyms and nicknames to learn, and you know what? I learned them. I did not get mad because I did not know the vernacular and lash out.

Then you start this poll, thinking you would be overwhelmed by the "All the Time" response. Reality hits when over 50% of the respondents, expectedly so, vote that they do not stretch their picture. So of course, they must be liars. There is no way you could possibly be in the minority. This site has many hard-core film buffs. To be surprised that they respond that they don't want to alter the image the director intended should come as no shock. People here bang the drum of OAR every day. To think you would be deluged with "I distort Citizen Kane and Oz to fit my WS TV" is just as foolish as being upset if the poll was "WSvsFS: Which is better?" and getting a lot of responses for WS.

Stretch you movies to your heart's content.

This will be my last post on this topic, I feel like I am being dragged into a fight I don't want to be in. Close your mind to the expertise of others. You are only hurting yourself. I wish you no ill will. I do hope that salesperson does not pork you, because they are out for one thing: a fat commission.

edited to add: I have the same configuration, TV and Player as Johnny Zhivago.

Last edited by Qui Gon Jim; 02-02-04 at 05:54 PM.
Qui Gon Jim is offline  
Old 02-02-04, 05:54 PM
  #89  
Suspended
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3,039
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally posted by Johnny Zhivago
baracine - Dunno if you ever got the answer to your question, or if this is what you were looking for... But... Like I said back in post #2... One of my players generates black bars on 4X3 material. It's a Panasonic F85S via to my 47" Panny. The F85 models produce black side bars for 4X3 material and they will windowbox non-anamorphic letterbox - which is one of three reasons that I have one of those players in my rack. DVD-A support and 4X3 side bars being the others...
Thanks. It's always good to get confirmation. I suppose that 47" Panny is a genuine rear-projection TV, right?

Please explain "windowbox non-anamorphic letterbox" and "DVD-A" and you will be like a God unto me.
baracine is offline  
Old 02-02-04, 06:05 PM
  #90  
Suspended
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3,039
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally posted by Qui Gon Jim
I don't know how much you research a big purchase like a WS TV, but I did a lot of homework. I checked the specs on the TV and the player.

Salesmen are not your friends. They hate an informed shopper, and they see marks coming a mile away.
I totally agree. I actually waited a whole year before buying my first WS (Toshiba TW40X81) because it promised progressive scanning. I thought I was so smart and I had asked and researched all the important questions. I never thought my DVD player (a basic Toshiba) would not generate black bars in 4:3 mode and I gradually started using the stretch mode more and more - to the point, of course, where I am an avid proponent.

If I ever find the right combination (and the one that you share with Johnny Zhivago sounds promising), I might be tempted to come back to 4:3 viewing. But I swear no oaths.
baracine is offline  
Old 02-02-04, 06:06 PM
  #91  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Johnny Zhivago's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Korova Milkbar
Posts: 5,435
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
baracine - Yes, my 16X9 is a rear-projection model... 47WX49E. > http://www.panny.tv/tv.htm < This set locks into "full" mode when fed a progressive signal. The F85S player generates black side bars on 4X3 material when locked in full, eliminating the grey side bars.

DVD-A = DVD-Audio = high resolution music format > http://www.digitalaudioguide.com/faq.../faq_intro.htm

Windowboxing non-anamorphic letterbox = The F85S will center a DVD that has not been enhanced for widescreen televisions... Windowboxing = black bars on all 4 sides. This preserves the OAR of the letterboxed film without stretching or zooming the image. It's a poor man's version of the x-y scaling that was mentioned earlier in this thread...
Johnny Zhivago is offline  
Old 02-02-04, 06:09 PM
  #92  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Dela-where?
Posts: 836
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by baracine
Thanks. It's always good to get confirmation. I suppose that 47" Panny is a genuine rear-projection TV, right?

Please explain "windowbox non-anamorphic letterbox" and "DVD-A" and you will be like a God unto me.
I suggest you check out http://www.thedigitalbits.com/officialfaq.html
Tafellappen is offline  
Old 02-03-04, 07:27 AM
  #93  
Suspended
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3,039
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally posted by Johnny Zhivago
Windowboxing non-anamorphic letterbox = The F85S will center a DVD that has not been enhanced for widescreen televisions... Windowboxing = black bars on all 4 sides. This preserves the OAR of the letterboxed film without stretching or zooming the image. It's a poor man's version of the x-y scaling that was mentioned earlier in this thread...
Thanks again or the info. So windowboxing sounds basically like what I do when I play an unanamorphic letterboxed DVD in "Normal" mode, except the side bars are black instead of grey?
baracine is offline  
Old 02-03-04, 02:01 PM
  #94  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Johnny Zhivago's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Korova Milkbar
Posts: 5,435
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by baracine
So windowboxing sounds basically like what I do when I play an unanamorphic letterboxed DVD in "Normal" mode, except the side bars are black instead of grey?
Correct...

Johnny Zhivago is offline  
Old 02-03-04, 02:30 PM
  #95  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Obey The D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Northern NJ
Posts: 8,626
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
This is one of the main reasons I decided to go with the 42" Sony GWIII. Since it is an LCD display, their are no issues with burn-in from 4:3, video games, etc.
Obey The D is offline  
Old 02-03-04, 02:47 PM
  #96  
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 669
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally posted by Obey The D
This is one of the main reasons I decided to go with the 42" Sony GWIII. Since it is an LCD display, their are no issues with burn-in from 4:3, video games, etc.
i have only had my plasma for 1 month and i am already seeing burn-in from watching television in 4:3 mode.
BRIAN 1972 is offline  
Old 02-03-04, 02:52 PM
  #97  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Obey The D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Northern NJ
Posts: 8,626
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally posted by BRIAN 1972
i have only had my plasma for 1 month and i am already seeing burn-in from watching television in 4:3 mode.
Thats because plasma displays, unlike LCD, suffer from burn-in.
Obey The D is offline  
Old 04-06-04, 04:41 PM
  #98  
Suspended
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3,039
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
A brief update on this debate. I got a new Denon 910 DVD player that actually generates black bars on my Toshiba rear projection TV in 4:3 mode - but only while it is in Progressive Scanning mode. So my salesman was wrong about that...

This is a mixed blessing. The picture shows more of the sides than in non-PS, non-black bars mode or any other widescreen mode. The ratio is actually closer to 1.44:1, which is not OAR but is still useful as it shows more of the sides than any other available ratio on this TV, while possibly cropping top and bottom slightly. I say that because I still can't see the top of Nosferatu's head when he stands up from his coffin on the ship in the 1922 film, even in the supposedly OAR Kino edition.

Other disadvantage: Since this ratio stretches the capacity of my rear-projection TV to the max, the black bars left and right are a little ragged and show, even after careful convergence adjustment, a slight blue line on the left of the picture and a somewhat wider red line on the right of the picture when the picture is bright.

Other characteristic, this 4:3 image is a lot brighter than the slightly cropped (top and bottom) "theater mode" image and must be dimmed.

I suppose that perfection will only be achieved with a LCD screen.

Last edited by baracine; 04-06-04 at 05:37 PM.
baracine is offline  
Old 04-06-04, 05:03 PM
  #99  
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,221
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by Obey The D
Thats because plasma displays, unlike LCD, suffer from burn-in.
Not true, my 5+ year old Sony LCD has burn-in.
J.P.V. is offline  
Old 04-06-04, 09:09 PM
  #100  
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,412
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Occasionally... depending on what I am watching. I usually stretch TV... but movies I usually watch in their OAR.
jfrost is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.