Avalon: R1 Vs. R3

 
Old 12-30-03, 05:22 AM
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Avalon: R1 Vs. R3

How does the Miramax release of Avalon compare against the R3 Two Disc version (apart from DTS)?

Are the features "The Special FX of Avalon" & "An Interview with Director Mamoru Oshii" ported over from the R3 version or are they completely new?

Thanks.

Andrew
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Old 12-30-03, 07:29 AM
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Although Avalon isn't in their data base, here's a great site for future reference regarding comparisions of different regional editions:

http://www.dvdcompare.org.uk/

P.S. This probably should be in the International forum.
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Old 12-30-03, 09:33 AM
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IIRC the features were ported over from the French R2 release.
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Old 12-30-03, 10:28 AM
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I watched the R1 release the other day. The picture quality seemed pretty good, but not great (though it's somewhat hard to tell with a movie that uses the strange color scheme that movie has). The English dub track actually seemed decent (though the original track is obviously included as well).

I didn't get a chance to check out the extras unfortunately.
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Old 12-30-03, 11:13 AM
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The Korean version is far better than the crap R1 go for Korean r3 and you get the best of all worlds, and as far as the R1 extras go, they will be subbed on the R1, as that one little problem with the Korean version, no english subs, pity, but its still a bargain.
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Old 01-06-04, 09:11 AM
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The region 1 version of Avalon is Dubtitled!

Miramax screws up anouther Asian film.
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Old 01-06-04, 09:41 AM
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Thanks for the link Onizuka. I was aware of Miramax's mistreatment of Asian releases through reediting and dubs/no-subs, but the dubtitle info was news to me. I'm writing Miramax off completely now.
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Old 01-06-04, 12:03 PM
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I guess we all love Miraaxe they need to be stopped.
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Old 02-27-04, 02:15 PM
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Those dubtitles are pretty sad, but one thing about them that I appreciate is that after reading the pedantic spelling out of Team Wizard's rise and fall, I was able to appreciate how artfully Oshii told that story in his version at a fragmented pace and strictly through very natural dialogue.

I wish they weren’t there, but this movie rocks so much that I can just ignore them. Whoever made this decision at Miramax to hold the viewer’s hand through the storytelling process should definitely be de-eyeballed, though.

P.S. This movie rocks! (I had no idea what I was getting into when I rented this. I ended up loving and buying Red Spectacles after I saw that one, but Avalon takes the cake! )
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Old 02-27-04, 06:04 PM
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Originally posted by Onizuka
The region 1 version of Avalon is Dubtitled!

Miramax screws up anouther Asian film.
This is even worse than we thought. Back in 1999, Neil Gaiman was at the San Diego COmic Convention and mentioned that one of his film projects was to write the Sub-titles for 'Avalon.' Not rewrite, but elevate the translation into something better. Now, since then I've heard nothing, so this "dub-titling" is even worse.
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Old 02-28-04, 12:34 AM
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Originally posted by marty888
Although Avalon isn't in their data base, here's a great site for future reference regarding comparisions of different regional editions:

http://www.dvdcompare.org.uk/

P.S. This probably should be in the International forum.
It's in the database now

http://www.dvdcompare.net/comparison...e.php?fid=3608

I'd be interested to know what the added narration by Ash is
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Old 02-28-04, 04:10 PM
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I had the R2 Japanese DVD and got rid of it once the Korean 2-Disc was released... Pretty much an exact port of the R2J DVD. It's the one to have!!!
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Old 03-06-04, 09:23 PM
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I bought this movie last month and finaly had the chance to watch it in full this weekend. I had seen it before.

I'm very very displeased. I checked a whole bunch of reviews on googles and NONE mentioned the dubtitles.

Furthermore, DVD talk's review doesn't mention it's dubtitled either... in fact it's a Highly Recommended disc.

Looking at DVDTalk's review, I thought it would be safe to buy this disc. Instead I basically wasted my money, unless I want to watch dubtitles that have lines scrolling across the picture when no one is saying anything. I'll try to return it... I still have the recipet, and technically, the product is defective.

For those curious about what the additional dialogue is.. think Blade Runner, but worse. They've added lots of voice overs where there was nothing before, pretty much all through out the movie. The earliest example is when Ash is walking down the hall after just being disconnected she voice overs the history of her old team.

Last edited by BizRodian; 03-06-04 at 09:27 PM.
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Old 03-06-04, 09:31 PM
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That sounds awful. The beauty and effectiveness of this movie comes from its subtlety. Having everything pronounced to the viewer is nothing short of a sacrilege.
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Old 03-06-04, 11:23 PM
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Ok, I'm investigating further...

The subtitles on this are totally messed up...

There seem to be five different subtitles:
English
English 2 (which on the menu is described as English for the hard of hearing, and it includes sound captions like "Gun fire" when someone's firing a gun)
English 3 (which seems to show only subtitles during the music pieces)
French (which I'll describe a bit more if you read down..)
French 2 (Which seem to do nothing when activated)

There's a few weird things. For example, when the two guys are watching "noname" it goes like this:

Viewer 1: Completely Perfect. Reminds me of Ash.
Viewer 2: This guy's better. He's much faster.

Cut to the screen, we see "noname" gesture.

Now, in the real version film, the two characters say nothing further (in fact, they actually have a totally different conversation really, but lets ignore that for now.) In the English 1 subs, this stays true... but in the English 2 tracks, there's another line! "He's a cocky bastard. They've got that in common." I checked the English dub, and that's from the dub.

I go back and check out the battle at the start with English 2 and the English dub. The English dub had voice overs in this, and English 2 subtitles them. Basically it's just Ash introducing to us who she is and explaining how she's been playing this game for a long time and blah blah blah, she doesn't know who started it or who created it, or how it's supposed to end. Whatever.

So it looks like English 1 is ment to be the actual subtitles, whereas English 2 are the dubtitles. It looks like they had their writer rewrite the movie and add the voice overs, and then for the real subtitles, they just removed the parts. However, in the first half hour I watched, they missed a shitload of them.

Like when the Game Master tries to tell Ash to join a team, Ash storms out and then a voice over goes on about how they liked teams because they're easier to track, and how solo players can get lost behind firewalls and mess up the system or something stupid. If you're watching the real version of the movie, this all scrolls accross the screen and no one is talking.

The next time I noticed this event is after Ash talks to Stunner. Stunner mentions Murphy, and in the film, it's supposed to then switch to Ash going to see Murphy. Except the subtitles show that they have Stunner go on explaining about Murphy and what has happened to him, and how he's unreturned and blah blah blah. I didn't watch the movie anymore after this. It just seems that whenever there is a long period of silence, the dubbers just HAD to put in a voice over to stop it.

So I also checked out the french language track. The french language dub is actually better then the English one, it's closer to what's actually being said. For example, the first lines, when Ash says to work on class B and C, in the English dub (and therefore subtitles) she doesn't mention C, she just says to work on class B. But in the Polish she clearly mentions both B and C. The French track also mentions B and C.

This is where it gets even more crazy... when you play the french subtitles... they don't match the french the french subtitles are a french translation of the English dub. So you get the same "quite spots" with the scrolling text and no dialogue. The only way this setup works is if some french person goes "Hey! I want to watch this Polish speaking movie in English! but I better turn on the french subtitles!"

This DVD is basically defective. Someone let these horrible errors get through to the shelfs. If someone had actually WATCHED THE DAMN MOVIE before pressing the disc, they would have noticed this problem, it's PAINFULLY clear if you watch the movie in Polish with the subtitles... which is actually the default setting!

What a mess.

I like the movie a lot, but wasn't interested enough to go through the trouble to get the Region 3 one... I just wanted to watch the movie, didn't care about extras. But now I guess I'll see if I can return this one and then get the Korean one when I can.

Last edited by BizRodian; 03-06-04 at 11:51 PM.
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Old 03-07-04, 01:50 AM
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The R1 release also has a hideous looking cover; it looks like one of those bargain bin straight to video B movie ads with cheesy font and bad art.
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Old 03-07-04, 01:59 PM
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It sure does, but that's the least of our worries
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Old 03-07-04, 05:38 PM
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Anyways, exchanged it today after much hassle. They didn't believe that all the discs could have this problem ("what's a disc pressing?") and at first wanted to do a straight exchange, and have me go home and see if the new one worked any better. It of course, wouldn't, and I had to convince them to let me play it on on a player there to show them. Then he was rathed confused as to why I'd want to watch it in Polish with subtitles anyways, he figured it wasn't defective because the English version played fine. Saying stuff like how most people wouldn't care and such. I finally had to say that on the case it says it'll play the Polish with English subtitles, and that when I play it that way, it simply DOES NOT WORK. Therefore, it's defective.

I got my money back in the end, and that's all that matter. Hopefully Miramax will be getting back two Avalon DVDs now that are going to be labeled defective

Last edited by BizRodian; 03-07-04 at 11:07 PM.
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Old 03-07-04, 05:46 PM
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Originally posted by UKingdom
The R1 release also has a hideous looking cover; it looks like one of those bargain bin straight to video B movie ads with cheesy font and bad art.
You've not seen the Korean R3 cover then? Full of spelling mistakes!
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Old 03-07-04, 06:05 PM
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Originally posted by Squirrel God
You've not seen the Korean R3 cover then? Full of spelling mistakes!
It has one spelling mistake, 'Mirracle'.

Grammatically speaking, though, that is another story.


edit: Anyone in the least bit interested in this movie needs to pick up the R3 Korean release. The DTS 6.1 track is amazing.
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Old 03-08-04, 12:17 AM
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Originally posted by flashburn

edit: Anyone in the least bit interested in this movie needs to pick up the R3 Korean release. The DTS 6.1 track is amazing.
Yeah, it's a Full Bit-Rate DTS track... One of the best I've heard.
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