Go Back  DVD Talk Forum > Archives > Archives > DVD Talk Archive
Reload this Page >

Will new Godfather dvd include original mono this time???

Will new Godfather dvd include original mono this time???

 
Old 12-09-03, 11:35 AM
  #1  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,688
Will new Godfather dvd include original mono this time???

Since no one seems to have answered my question on all the forums I raised this question regarding the remastered single release of The Godfather. Does anyone know for sure?

If it includes the terrible 5.1 mix only. I am not buying it. Really destroyed the film.
Julie Walker is offline  
Old 12-09-03, 11:47 AM
  #2  
Fok
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Fok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Canada, BC
Posts: 6,689
I haven't seen the movies before they were remastered. Why would mono be better?
Fok is offline  
Old 12-09-03, 11:53 AM
  #3  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Josh Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Boston
Posts: 11,069
Re: Will new Godfather dvd include original mono this time???

Originally posted by Julie Walker
If it includes the terrible 5.1 mix only. I am not buying it. Really destroyed the film.
I would hardly call it "terrible". The mix is still mostly mono, despite the 5.1 encoding.
Josh Z is offline  
Old 12-09-03, 12:06 PM
  #4  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,688
Well from what I have heard. The voices echo with reverb & sound like they're coming from a tin can. Meanwhile the mono sounded natural & full of atmosphere.

Various sequences which were powerful & quite effective in mono,now sound terrible in the remix & don't pack the punch.

Two sequences that suffer the worst from this are Sonnys first kill....& the hospital sequence,where you hear someone walking up the stairs as they attempt to hide.

Sonnys murder sequence used to have a rather loud raw atmospheric punch to it,where you hear a train coming by outside & gets louder,then he shoots the guy just as the outside noise is loudest,thus muffling out the gun shot. On the 5.1 & stereo mix,the outside noise is now very surpressed & low,then gun fire more obvious(& fake sounding),but now it lacks the punch of the original mix which was awsome.

The footsteps coming up the stairs at the hospital now looses the suspense & tension. Originally the footsteps have apretty realistic loud bassy vibe to them,as you could hear them start out low,then get louder as the person gets closer to the next floor. On the 5.1/stereo mix,the footsteps sound fake,like they may be rerecorded,they are to low & pack none of the suspense & tension as in the mono mix.

Those are only two of many scenes that suffer from this bad remix.

Mono was the original mix to answer the first repliers question & that is why mono can be better in some cases & this is one of them
Julie Walker is offline  
Old 12-09-03, 12:35 PM
  #5  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah - USA
Posts: 5,196
...erm... Julie does have a point:

...the (mono) soundtrack for the original "The Godfather" was nominated for (but did not win) the Oscar...

...the soundtrack for "The Godfather Part II" was also in mono...

...only the soundtrack for the 70mm release of "The Godfather Part III" was in 6-track stereo (Dolby for the 35mm prints)...

. . . . . .

Last edited by Hendrik; 12-09-03 at 12:41 PM.
Hendrik is offline  
Old 12-09-03, 12:54 PM
  #6  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,688
Exactly & even if it were not nominated. It would still be the better option on the dvd compared with the current mix

I avoided the Jaws dvd as well which sounded bad with all the newly recorded FX replacing the incredible original mix & taking away all the fun & excitement of it all in favor of speaker city fakiness over the power of the original mix.

I did get the SE laserdisc of that film & the original mono mix is excellent in everyway & kicks major ass. That mix DID win the award for best sound btw...shame it is not on the dvd


5.1 is only good on films originally made in 5.1.which is mostly for newer films & a few rare expections from the past.

Meanwhile whatever the original mix of older films be it mono or stereo. Those are the better mixes & should always be included on the dvd. Most of the time,the 5.1 is bad on these type of films. Only once in a rare while,do they actually mix them right & now destroy them. But more often than not,they suck out all the atmosphere & 'feel' of the original sound in favor of expanding it to more speakers & sucking the life out of them by makin them sound fake & unrealistic.
Julie Walker is offline  
Old 12-09-03, 01:08 PM
  #7  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah - USA
Posts: 5,196
...hear hear !...

. . . . . .
Hendrik is offline  
Old 12-09-03, 01:17 PM
  #8  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 9,862
Originally posted by Julie Walker
Well from what I have heard.
Why don't you rent one of them, watch it and formulate an opinion of your own? You may be worrying about the soundtrack issue for no reason. I doubt Paramount will alter anything for the new release just as I doubt your boycott of it will bother them at all.

I'm not disagreeing that a mono track shouldn't have been included originally, but you should watch one of the films before you take someone else's word on the soundtrack. I just turned my tuner to "ALL SPEAKERS" and made my own mono version.

Last edited by rfduncan; 12-09-03 at 01:21 PM.
rfduncan is offline  
Old 12-09-03, 01:21 PM
  #9  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,688
Originally posted by rfduncan
Why don't you rent one of them, watch it and formulate an opinion of your own? You may be worrying about the soundtrack issue for no reason. I doubt Paramount will alter anything for the new release just as I doubt your boycot of it will bother them at all.

I'm not disagreeing that it shouldn't have been included originally, but you should watch one before you take someone else's word on the soundtrack. I just turned my tuner to "ALL SPEAKERS" and made my own mono version.

Ummm I HAVE heard the soundtracks. In other words,from what I have heard while viewing the dvd + current tv showings which use the new track. It sounds terrible.

Sound is very important for a film & should never be butchured & altered just to please HT junkies who expect everything to be 5.1 whether you like it or not. Yet it seems many people are clueless to this issue & only care about having their speakers filled no matter what & yet still think of themselves are 'real true' film fans. Yet butchuring a soundmix is no better than cropping a picture to fill your screen. Both destroy(usually) the original films intent & quality in the process.

Would youl rather watch The Terminator with silencer gunfire(5.1) or LOUD BANG BANG original gunfire(mono)?
Julie Walker is offline  
Old 12-09-03, 02:15 PM
  #10  
DVD Talk Gold Edition
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,429
Not only should the original mono soundtrack be included, it should be encoded in full-blooded LPCM (no anemic Dolby Digital 1.0/2.0 crap). Can you imagine how gorgeous that would sound, particularly the score? Oh my...

And I agree with the above posters on the multichannel... while this is nowhere near as bad as the worst multichannel remixes, it does evince that hollow, echoey, processed sound, and particularly so (as usual) for dialog. Not the worst I've heard, not by a longshot, and not a bad try... but these movies, at least the first two, deserve the best.
Richard Malloy is offline  
Old 12-09-03, 04:42 PM
  #11  
DVD Talk Gold Edition
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,463
I don't think there is anything wrong with the current track. For a film of this nature and age, I have no problem with it.

I am more curious about how much better (if any) the video will look like on the new release.
DavidH is offline  
Old 12-09-03, 04:56 PM
  #12  
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Astoria, NY, USA
Posts: 3,333
Originally posted by Julie Walker
Meanwhile the mono sounded natural & full of atmosphere.
When and where have you heard the original mono mix?

DJ
djtoell is offline  
Old 12-09-03, 05:10 PM
  #13  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah - USA
Posts: 5,196
Originally posted by djtoell
When and where have you heard the original mono mix?
...erm... when Miss Julie saw the movie in a cinema...?... (like I did, when it was "new" - ditto for The Godfather Part II...)

. . . . . .
Hendrik is offline  
Old 12-09-03, 06:14 PM
  #14  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Lachenaie, Québec (Canada)
Posts: 369
From my experience with mono movie, the sound is comming only from the center channel!!! and I hate it...

I spent more than 4000$ on my HT and using only the center channel makes me angry!...

how can you make the mono track go in (at least) all the front speakers??

downmix stereo?

and the DTS track of Jaws is quite nice BTW (FMPOV)
Tha Freak is offline  
Old 12-09-03, 07:03 PM
  #15  
DVD Talk Gold Edition
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,463
How long ago did you hear this mono track in the theater?
DavidH is offline  
Old 12-09-03, 07:23 PM
  #16  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah - USA
Posts: 5,196
...erm... if your question is addressed to me, it was 1972, respectively 1974 that I first saw the initial two Godfather movies in the theater, the first in Zurich, the second in London... why?

(signed) Old Croak Who Just Turned Seventy

. . . . . .
Hendrik is offline  
Old 12-09-03, 08:06 PM
  #17  
DVD Talk Gold Edition
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,463
Oh, I just find it quite interesting how so many people "remember" precisely how a movie looked or sounded 30 years ago. I hear this quite often about various transfers, etc. I have a good memory - still young (31 yrs old) - and have been interested in movies for years. There is NO way I can be honest and tell you just how a +10-year-old movie I saw in the theater look or sounded and how it compares to a current DVD transfer.
DavidH is offline  
Old 12-09-03, 08:26 PM
  #18  
DVD Talk Legend
 
darkside's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 19,847
Originally posted by Tha Freak
From my experience with mono movie, the sound is comming only from the center channel!!! and I hate it...

I spent more than 4000$ on my HT and using only the center channel makes me angry!...

how can you make the mono track go in (at least) all the front speakers??

downmix stereo?

and the DTS track of Jaws is quite nice BTW (FMPOV)
Yeah, and since you have a color TV all b/w movies should be in color as well.

No one is saying they shouldn't have the DD remix for those of you that have to use all or your speakers no matter how terrible it sounds, just that they add the mono track for those of us that want the movie to sound closer to the way it was in the theater.

I would love to have the original mono soundtrack included on the new release. I didn't think the DD remix was as bad as most of the fake DD 5.1 remixes I've heard, but I have to agree the original mono would have to sound better.

It should be a rule that movies original recorded in mono should be released with the mono track. Most DD 5.1 remixes of old mono movies I have heard are terrible. Ocassionaly some one puts a lot of effort as with Vertigo and the remix sounds great, but this is rarely the case.

Its one thing to make a remix with movies like 2001 or Godfather 3 that had a 6 track mix. However, those movies are few.

Last edited by darkside; 12-09-03 at 08:29 PM.
darkside is offline  
Old 12-09-03, 08:41 PM
  #19  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,688
Well I did see a revival of the film(not the latest remastered release) with the original mono track. Also the pre-THX edition VHS & laserdisc included the original mono mix. I saw those quite a few times before they were abolished with the THX releases & now 5.1 dvd.

So I was pretty much aware of how the film was supposed to sound & how different in a bad way the remixed track does sound.


So just because the mono mix may not be available on dvd,does not mean there are no other options to hear it


As for those who are monophobic since your speakers are not 'filled'. I never really understood the fear of mono. It sounds incredible!!

Crimes of Passion SE from AB has one of the most impressive & agressive mono mixes I have ever heard on dvd. It was beautiful & heck I was unaware it was mono until I checked the box.

I also caught a revival of the origimal Friday the 13th back aroumd Halloween. This would be the second mono film I saw in theaters besides The Godfather & guess what? An amazing frightening fum experiance. The track was loud & creepy. No need for a 5.1,it sounds perfect as it is. Of course alot of people are 'hoping' for 5.1 on the upcoming SEs. The mono mixes better be included,accept no substitutes.

I think some people care more about the brand name rather than sound quality. 5.1 is 'hip' & cool sounding. Whereas mono in the HT world is 'boring'. It's like another form of J6P

I mean,you have people whining about no DTS,wanting everything 5.1,now 7.1 & so forth. Yet they don't seem to really care about the actual original sound quality. If you want 5.1 tracks that work out your system. Stick to Micheal Bay films & all current action films. Leave all the older films alone. They were not intended for 5.1!

It's pretty simple actually,yet people don't care about that obviouslly expect the select few who do appreciate original sound mixes.
Julie Walker is offline  
Old 12-09-03, 08:43 PM
  #20  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Sitting on a beach, earning 20%
Posts: 9,917
J5.1P?

(Sound maniac who hangs out with widescreen snob, J16:9P)
DonnachaOne is offline  
Old 12-09-03, 09:02 PM
  #21  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 452
"this issue is much ado about nothing for myself."

I've never seen the Godfather films, "so it's not 'that' big of a deal."

"Go get the old theatrical laserdisc is you want,or the vhs(not sure if a WS version was released)." Then you will have the original mix.

Other people don't seem to mind the remix. "Thus it's not too big a an issue."

Just kidding with you Julie, I agree the mono mix should be on the Godfather. Films should be preserved how they were originally made. It is very easy to put two soundtracks on a DVD, it is very easy to release a film OAR and it is very easy to put a theatrical cut on disk.

Not everyone will agree if certain changes are better or not. But we can agree that both version should be released on DVD so each of us can buy the film we like.

Last edited by Avid; 12-09-03 at 09:25 PM.
Avid is offline  
Old 12-09-03, 09:20 PM
  #22  
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,100
I'm in complete agreement with Julie Walker...

The point is, this goes far beyond THE GODFATHER. What needs to be understood is that older films released originally in mono need to LEFT ALONE. IMHO, "remixing" an original-mono film in 5.1, 7.1, or x.1 without including the original mono soundtrack is tantamount to butchering a 1.85 or 2.35 film to 1.33.

It is not about "film purists" or HT geeks, it is about how the movie should be presented correctly. So what if 5.1 didn't exist 30 years ago? We all loved movies then and we all got by with big fat MONO just fine!

You HT enthusiasts with the $4k audio setups can blast it up with the films made today which are always in 5.1. I agree that since the films of today have such complex soundtracks, that is ALSO how THEY should be heard. Mono just is not acceptable for LOTR:TT.

Peace.
zyzzle is offline  
Old 12-10-03, 09:31 AM
  #23  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Lachenaie, Québec (Canada)
Posts: 369
Thanks for the constructive comments!…I was actually asking a question how to enjoy the mono tracks (with my J5.1P 4K geek’s HT system, I cannot call myself a J16:9P guy yet cos I just have a color TV), to help me see the positive facts!…
Tha Freak is offline  
Old 12-10-03, 09:47 AM
  #24  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Rypro 525's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: a frikin hellhole
Posts: 28,260
also, terminator 1 sounds terrific in 2.0 mono and terrible in 5.1, with all of its fake sounds and such
Rypro 525 is offline  
Old 12-10-03, 11:23 AM
  #25  
New Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 10
I agree that the original soundtrack should be included.
That´s the best of both worlds.
U get your remix and the original.
maggi is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.