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Last Temptation of Christ

Old 05-01-00, 12:19 PM
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I admit I could not get through this movie. But, the problem might be that I have no concept of how a sinless man would act. For that matter neither does anyone else. I do not doubt that Jesus questioned God about the final outcome. I just could not handle this weak , questioning, wimpy Jesus. For me "Jesus of Nazareth" is still the best. Which BTW is a pretty awsome DVD considering it was made for a TV movie.

[This message has been edited by JackS (edited May 01, 2000).]
Old 05-01-00, 02:25 PM
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JackS,


Dude, since you didn't get through the movie, you didn't get to see Jesus come out of his "wimpy" mode and turn into the more obsessed, self-righteous personality which you might be accustomed to seeing.
Old 05-01-00, 06:21 PM
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quote:<HR>Originally posted by Tesiae:
JackS,


Dude, since you didn't get through the movie, you didn't get to see Jesus come out of his "wimpy" mode and turn into the more obsessed, self-righteous personality which you might be accustomed to seeing.
<HR>


"Obsessed?" "Self-righteous?"

You must be accustomed to seeing TV preachers, not Jesus. Those words don't apply to him, either as portrayed in LTOC or in the Bible. Dude.

Old 05-01-00, 06:40 PM
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wow, such intense discussion over a fictional character.
Old 05-01-00, 07:14 PM
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dilone: I was being facetious.

But I do think that having seen Christ as a self-doubting/pitying "wimp," it's quite a sharp contrast to see him as the self-assured figure that he became, which leads to the appearance of arrogance or pride on His part. It's like putting your hand ice cold water for a while. Place your hand over warm water, it feels damned hot.
Old 05-01-00, 07:36 PM
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quote:<HR>Originally posted by Tesiae:
It's like putting your hand ice cold water for a while. Place your hand over warm water, it feels damned hot.<HR>


Hey, that sounds like fun. Since I have no life whatsoever, I'm going to spend the rest of the day doing that. Wooo-hoooo!

I'm going to assume that brianluvdvd's "fictional character" remark was a troll and ignore it. If it wasn't, well, that's for another bulletin board.

[This message has been edited by dilone (edited May 01, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by dilone (edited May 01, 2000).]
Old 05-01-00, 11:39 PM
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what's a troll?

are you saying jesus is a funny looking dwarf? i am soooo offended.

[This message has been edited by brianluvdvd (edited May 01, 2000).]
Old 05-04-00, 01:16 PM
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Just got to watch this last night. What a stunning, beautiful film. I saw it years ago on video but was a little young to fully appreciate it. Without the religious overtures this film is an incredible deep and soulful story of a love between two men (Jesus and Judas) and the scene where Jesus asks Judas to betray him is incredible. When Jesus says "That's why God gave me the easier job" I almost started crying. DaFoe and Keitel are so amazing and subtle. Add to it thousands of years of religious history and wieght and the film becomes huge and amazing.

It's so great to see a serious film made by adults for adults. So rare. I am not religious in any way, shape, or form, but I appreciate this film as a masterful and intelligent and insightful work by two of our greatest directors and writers.

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Old 05-04-00, 02:33 PM
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buskerdog:

You should read the notes that come in the DVD case. It is because of this relationship between Jesus and Judas that some zealots actually accused the film of portraying Christ as a homosexual! My jaw dropped when I read that. I mean, how seriously homophobic and insecure about their own sexuality are these men that they assume that two men with a close relationship are gay? You know, in many parts of the non-American world, it's quite normal for men to kiss upon greeting each other.

Anyway, going back to the movie. I think that it's great that this movie does not portray Judas as the traitor of all times. Judas was an essential component in the great scheme of the Redemption.
Old 05-04-00, 05:51 PM
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The problem with the homosexual thing is that people are SO closed minded that not only can they not stomach the thought of homosexuals, they can't even stomach the idea of a deep and meaningful love and respect between two men that is not a homsexual relationship. The film doesn't insinuate that Judas and Jesus were gay (what would be the point of that? It wouldn't add anything but controversy) but it does portray them as linked in a meaningful and powerful way and, especially given the age-old (and, frankly, grossly antisemetic) nature of the standard portrayal of Judas' betrayal, the depth of the relationship between the two in the film must have been scary to a lot of people, so they reacted with the same knee jerk reaction that they had to other parts of the film. It makes Jesus a much richer and more powerful figure to think of this relationship as so strong and grounded. That is why I remarked at how beautifully they handled the development of the two characters in regards to each other. In some ways the movie is a love story between these two, the way Donnie Brasco was a love story between Depp and Pacino, although on an infinitely bigger scale.

I'm not religious in any way and have no interest in becoming religious but I'm aware that religion clearly (along with money and pride) has shaped the world for thousands of years and sometimes the spiritual origins of religion are obscured by God Inc. and all of the pomp and circustances surrounding religion (The Jesus of Last Temptation would be DISGUSTED with nearly all of the politically and moral stances of the modern Catholic movement). The Last Temptation of Christ is a beautiful way to explore the actual meanings of what Jesus 'said' that caused people to sit up and listen in the first place. That Scorsese is intellectual enough to ask questions about Jesus but also spiritual enough to feel the need to ask them in the first place show in the many layers of the film.

There is so much to think about in Last Temptation. It's really great.

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Old 05-04-00, 06:55 PM
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I had seen this film years ago and admit
I could not appreciate it in the context
in which I saw it. But I wanted to give
it another try when I heard the criterion
dvd was coming out...and while I still think
parts of the dialogue come across a bit
hokey in a few parts, I really didn't even
remember how good many of the scenes really
are in that movie. I think my favorite part
was in the beginning when Jesus is laboring
to build the crosses that the Romans use to crucify his people in order to make God hate him and leave him alone.

I never did understand the controversy over
this movie since I'm not particularly religious but I do strive to gain a greater
understanding of religions. I'm glad I saw
this one again and I hope it gains greater acceptance over time. It certainly seems to
be widely liked on this forum

Michael
Old 05-04-00, 07:13 PM
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buskerdog:

When you say that you aren't religious, do you mean that you don't adhere to any particular belief, or that you don't believe in God altogether?

BTW, looking over your DVD List, you're missing Passion of Joan of Arc ( Criterion ).
Old 05-04-00, 08:45 PM
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Due to the personal nature of this post and the fact that no one responded, I removed the content. If anyone is interested in discussing Last Temptation feel free to email me or reply that you want to. I just don't feel like having personal stuff floating around on the internet.

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[This message has been edited by buskerdog (edited May 05, 2000).]
Old 05-05-00, 04:42 PM
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My first clue that this would be an excellent, deeply human but also deeply religious movie, was when I realized that it's based on a book by Nikos Kazantzakis, I don't know how many people read this guy's books in America, but you are definitely missing one of the most important authors of the 20th Century... I guess not being an Anglo-Saxon did hurt...

Any of these man's books is a beautiful piece of literature. He's profoundly religious, and at the same time, profoundly human - thus all his characters are imperfect, though the most deserving of them strive for being closer to divinity. Also, being closer to divinity does not mean, in his case, going to church all day long and spewing quotes from the Bible all day and night... He is much closer to the idea of reconciling all religions and denominations, and to being close to God by being honest and introspective.


The idea of having Judas be the "real" hero is absolutely great, and indeed, it's the hardest part one has to play. But I'm surprised nobody here toushes the subject of Jesus meeting Paul, who talks about the immaculate conception and all the legend. "My Jesus is more real than you" he tells Jesus-the-man. That's what some of you in this thread say when you prefer more "traditional" depictions such as Zefirelli's film. This reminds me of the serious and disturbing debate over the centuries on the subject "did Jesus ever laugh?"... You don't see him laughing in Zefirelli's picture, but you see him here. And laughter is one of the major differences (if not THE major difference) between us and the rest of the animal world, as well as "intelligent" machines. He's more human, more believable, and probably closer to the true image that we can possibly guess.

Cheers!
Old 05-05-00, 10:47 PM
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Thanks for the Kazantsakis recommendation, playitagainsam. I'm going to read Last Tempation as soon as I'm done with my AP tests.
Old 05-07-00, 06:50 AM
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alright you guys, i got mine about week1/2 ago and my dad visited my apartment and saw it lying on the table, and HE FLIPPED, he went all ballistic and emotional, how can you watch this ? do you have no shame, how can you have something like this in your house. i tried to get him to watch it.
and that was a good idea, NOT!!
HE TOLD ME TO MOVE TO RUSSIA, IF I DON'T BELIEVE IN GOD AND JESUS.
It was a good movie though, and dad is kind of old school.


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Old 05-07-00, 01:17 PM
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sammanet:


I'm really sorry to hear that. :-( The problem with many people is that they believe all the bad propaganda that this movie got without even giving it a chance. That's the misconception with this movie, that it's out to destroy Jesus' image. You could try telling your father that there is no definitive idea of how Christ was, which is why there are four gospels according to what each apostle remembered. All the information we have of Jesus is pretty much second hand. And that information was transalated from Aramaic, to Greek, to Latin, then to English, and from there it was modified to suit each particular denomination. Man that's 2000 years of tinkering! Something is bound to be lost...
Old 05-08-00, 05:07 AM
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Tasiae
you are right, but see my father is one of those guys who think that Jesus was stand up white guy like him and refuses to accept that he could be anything but white.
i told him that he was born in the middle east, and the chances are that most definately had brown skin, but to my father that is not possible. well he is going to stay the way he is and i think trying to get him to watch that movie is an exercise in futility.
oh well.

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Old 05-08-00, 10:45 PM
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sammanet

I'm not trying to offend you or your father, but that was dumb (and, alas, soooo American!) Your propaganda machine is sometimes horribly efficient, only comparable with the ones various dictatorships use.

Except for the 1918-1991 period, the Russians are one of the most religious Christian people in the world. True believers and God-fearing, but also ready at all times to talk and debate over religious ideas (their intelligentsia is brilliant).

Check out Tarkovsky's "Andrei Rublev" for instance...


Regarding my previous post, Kazantzakis wrote the following, besides The Last Temptation:

A Report to El Greco
Alexis Zorba (the source for "Zorba the Greek", starring Anthony Quinn)
The Greek Passion

Haven't read any others yet.
Old 05-09-00, 04:52 AM
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PLAYITAGAINSAM
NONE TAKEN, THAT WAS MY WHOLE POINT, MY FATHER THINKS LIKE HIS FATHER DID, AND REFUSES TO OPEN HIS MIND TO NEW IDEAS. THAT WAS ALL I WAS TRYING TO SAY, IF IT CAME OUT ANY OTHER WAY.
AND YEAH I HAVE HEARD THAT WE AMERICANS ARE NOT SO INTELLECTUAL, BUT HAVEN'T YOU HEARD WE ARE THE HAPPIEST.

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