Anybody See "Your Friends and Neighbors"?
07-09-99, 11:28 AM
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Hey, I was just wondering if anybody saw this one, and what you thought if you did. I was thinking about pre-ordering. Thanks.
Also, while were at it, anybody see "Permanent Midnight"?
Also, while were at it, anybody see "Permanent Midnight"?
07-09-99, 11:48 AM
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I would have to say that it is one of the WORST movies I have seen in the last couple years... I thought that the previews made it look like it may be halfway decent and I was sorely disappointed... I really did try to like this movie, but I found it boring and uneventful the whole way though... I wouldn't touch it if it were me... I was disgusted that I paid $3.50 to rent it from Blockbuster. And I would like to add that the sexual deprivity or an understanding/enjoyment or lack thereof had nothing to do with my dislike of this movie... Maybe I am only 24 and have lots to learn? I thought it was bad (Period).
Edited to further explain my judgement...
[This message has been edited by Morpheus (edited 07-13-1999).]
Edited to further explain my judgement...
[This message has been edited by Morpheus (edited 07-13-1999).]
07-09-99, 12:03 PM
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I recently rented "Your Friends & Neighbors" to make sure I'd made the right decision in pre-ordering it. Personally, I loved this movie. Neil LaBute is a great writer, and while nihilistic (what else would you expect from LaBute?), I found this film to be one of the great, biting social commentaries of last year.
It's definitely not for everybody, but if you saw and liked his debut effort, "In the Company of Men," you'll be better prepared for "Your Friends & Neighbors." The DVD is going to have a commentary by LaBute, also, which I look forward to. If you're not familiar with his work, I'd wait and rent this, though.
As for "Permanent Midnight," I have the disc but haven't watched it yet, but I saw part of the movie before and liked it. Dark humor isn't usually found in heroin addiction, but this real-life story has managed to do so.
--Heather
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http://www.dvdtracker.com/~ahber16.asp
It's definitely not for everybody, but if you saw and liked his debut effort, "In the Company of Men," you'll be better prepared for "Your Friends & Neighbors." The DVD is going to have a commentary by LaBute, also, which I look forward to. If you're not familiar with his work, I'd wait and rent this, though.
As for "Permanent Midnight," I have the disc but haven't watched it yet, but I saw part of the movie before and liked it. Dark humor isn't usually found in heroin addiction, but this real-life story has managed to do so.
--Heather
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http://www.dvdtracker.com/~ahber16.asp
07-09-99, 04:47 PM
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I agree with DVDer on "Your Friends and Neighbors". A very good film, though I personally feel that "In The Company Of Men."
As far as "Permanent Midnight" is concerned, I think it really depends on whether or not you've read the book. Those I know who haven't read the book really liked the movie. I read the book first and was extremely disappointed in the movie. It's one of those books that are almost unfilmable. The director and actors made a decent effort, but they just had to cut too much out of the book and it lost its power...and its funniest parts.
jim
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As far as "Permanent Midnight" is concerned, I think it really depends on whether or not you've read the book. Those I know who haven't read the book really liked the movie. I read the book first and was extremely disappointed in the movie. It's one of those books that are almost unfilmable. The director and actors made a decent effort, but they just had to cut too much out of the book and it lost its power...and its funniest parts.
jim
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http://www.dvdtracker.com/~gamblor187.asp
07-09-99, 07:25 PM
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In my opinion, Neil Labute is the most overrated filmmaker working today. I find this sad because his films do have potential, if only he had talent. I remember being excited to see "In the Company of Men," and then sitting in the theater stunned at its badness. His films have almost no movement, which isn't surprising since most playwrights who become filmmakers, at first, make what seem to be filmed plays. What is shocking is how terrible his writing is. I think he impresses his critics because his films are considered "shocking" and they feel it would be too bourgeois to dislike a film that makes them uncomfortable. If, however, you do not find his films "shocking" (and I don't), you are left bored with a bunch of inarticulate cliche characters who do not have an ounce of intelligence between them. The sad fact is that in today's world, the best art is seen as being "real," and "real" as being "ugly." Oscar Wilde must be rolling in his grave.
[This message has been edited by Blip (edited 07-09-1999).]
[This message has been edited by Blip (edited 07-09-1999).]
[This message has been edited by Blip (edited 07-09-1999).]
[This message has been edited by Blip (edited 07-09-1999).]
07-12-99, 04:17 AM
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Friends & Neighbors is LaBute's second masterful dip into sexual depravity (although "In the Company of Men" is better). Although Friends doesn't have the brilliant cinematic minimalism that "Men" has, it has the most personal sort of anonymity and commonality in the movies. I think that movies about honest sexual depravity scares people (Finding people who admit to liking Happiness or In the Company of Men is very difficult) because the subject hits close to home for many people. It is easy to distance yourself from big, bang action flicks, or complicated thrillers and bloody horror films because we just can't relate to them. LaBute scares people because he shows us a TRUE side of life that a lot of people don't want to admit exists. Your Friends & Neighbors highlights this as well as any film.
07-12-99, 12:45 PM
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This movie knocked the wind out of me, and to say the acting was bad is unbelievable. It was phenomenal. Jason Patric should have been nominated for an Oscar.
Sure the movie's a little static (Perhaps LaBute should stick to writing and let others direct), but I think the script is very sharp, the characterizations are vivid, and the story is illuminating.
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Sure the movie's a little static (Perhaps LaBute should stick to writing and let others direct), but I think the script is very sharp, the characterizations are vivid, and the story is illuminating.
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http://www.dvdtracker.com/~epski.asp
07-12-99, 05:41 PM
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****Warning Spoiler for "Your Friends and Neighbors."
I want to make it clear that I really wanted to like Labute's films. I wouldn't have have gone to see them if I hadn't.
Concerning Bcelmins's observation that people do not want to admit to themselves the topics that Labute deals with and thus most people do not like his films. Personally, I find the opposite to be true. Most people I know like his films. One of the reasons that I didn't like "In the Company of Men" is that I have been around many misogynist men talking about women and "In the Company of Men" was bland in comparison. They were much more specific and convincing in their arguments than the men in Labute's films.
Concerning Jason Patric's character in "Your Friends and Neighbors," I did like the fact that his character was more intelligent than the characters in "In the Company of Men." Unfortunately, his character is one of the greatest cliche going today--the cliche being that misogynistic or homophobic men are in fact self-hating homosexuals. In Labute's films, there is no real observing going on. He just creates a group of characters that are as morally "ugly" as he can imagine and assumes he has the truth.
If you want to see better explorations of people either coming to terms with their sexuality or the way the so called "mind-body problem" manifests itself in sexual matters, I would suggest the films of Hitchcock, Cronenberg, Egoyan, and Lynch. The early scene in "Shadow of a Doubt," where the young woman (Teresa Wright) tells her uncle (Joseph Cotten) that they are twins has more psychology in that single instance than Labute's 2 films combine.
[This message has been edited by Blip (edited 07-12-1999).]
I want to make it clear that I really wanted to like Labute's films. I wouldn't have have gone to see them if I hadn't.
Concerning Bcelmins's observation that people do not want to admit to themselves the topics that Labute deals with and thus most people do not like his films. Personally, I find the opposite to be true. Most people I know like his films. One of the reasons that I didn't like "In the Company of Men" is that I have been around many misogynist men talking about women and "In the Company of Men" was bland in comparison. They were much more specific and convincing in their arguments than the men in Labute's films.
Concerning Jason Patric's character in "Your Friends and Neighbors," I did like the fact that his character was more intelligent than the characters in "In the Company of Men." Unfortunately, his character is one of the greatest cliche going today--the cliche being that misogynistic or homophobic men are in fact self-hating homosexuals. In Labute's films, there is no real observing going on. He just creates a group of characters that are as morally "ugly" as he can imagine and assumes he has the truth.
If you want to see better explorations of people either coming to terms with their sexuality or the way the so called "mind-body problem" manifests itself in sexual matters, I would suggest the films of Hitchcock, Cronenberg, Egoyan, and Lynch. The early scene in "Shadow of a Doubt," where the young woman (Teresa Wright) tells her uncle (Joseph Cotten) that they are twins has more psychology in that single instance than Labute's 2 films combine.
[This message has been edited by Blip (edited 07-12-1999).]
07-13-99, 03:11 PM
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I think the reason you found the "misogynist" men from "In the Company of Men" to be bland in comparison the misogynists you know is because LaBute didn't write them as misogynists. He has stated this publicly numerous times (and does so on the "Your Friends & Neighbors" commentary, as well), though almost every review I've read only focused on what they considered "shocking." Misogyny would mean they hated women, and they didn't, they hated themselves and took it out on women.
Like Blip, I don't find his films shocking, the difference is that I don't think they are supposed to be. They gear more towards simple character studies. For example, "Your Friends & Neighbors" is considered a modern immorality tale. He is not trying to say "Look at the terrible things these people do to one another, their nihilism is symbolic of the social condition of modern society," he is trying to say that people inflict pain upon others in response to their own pain or even out of boredom, which is not only idiotic, but it is a human response that causes what is perceived as inhumanity.
My disc of "Your Friends & Neighbors" arrived today, and I immediately listened to the commentary track by LaBute and producer Steve Golin. I had several questions which were answered during the commentary, for example, I didn't think that Jason Patric's character was a gynecologist, I thought he was a researcher or lab technician, and LaBute confirms that it was originally written like that. He also admits that Patric's "best you ever had" story was written so that the audience could decide whether or not they believed it, because the character puts on such a cold exterior.
I viewed it as he was a researcher or lab tech, and that he made up the story, so I never considered his characer to be a self-hating repressed homosexual, I just viewed him to be someone with a severe inferiority complex who wants to be viewed as audacious, because it makes him feel like he has more control over situations and the people around him.
The observations in the film are quite astute if taken from a literary standpoint. There are numerous literary references (mostly to plays) that are explained in the commentary, and almost constant visual references. I found some of the visuals to assist the story even more than the dialogue, which isn't that surprising since there are many stretches of silence.
Anyway, I've rambled long enough. Everyone has their own opinion on this film, which is the way it should be. No one's opinion can be wrong or right, because it is all subjective.
--Heather
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http://www.dvdtracker.com/~ahber16.asp
[This message has been edited by DVDer (edited 07-13-1999).]
Like Blip, I don't find his films shocking, the difference is that I don't think they are supposed to be. They gear more towards simple character studies. For example, "Your Friends & Neighbors" is considered a modern immorality tale. He is not trying to say "Look at the terrible things these people do to one another, their nihilism is symbolic of the social condition of modern society," he is trying to say that people inflict pain upon others in response to their own pain or even out of boredom, which is not only idiotic, but it is a human response that causes what is perceived as inhumanity.
My disc of "Your Friends & Neighbors" arrived today, and I immediately listened to the commentary track by LaBute and producer Steve Golin. I had several questions which were answered during the commentary, for example, I didn't think that Jason Patric's character was a gynecologist, I thought he was a researcher or lab technician, and LaBute confirms that it was originally written like that. He also admits that Patric's "best you ever had" story was written so that the audience could decide whether or not they believed it, because the character puts on such a cold exterior.
I viewed it as he was a researcher or lab tech, and that he made up the story, so I never considered his characer to be a self-hating repressed homosexual, I just viewed him to be someone with a severe inferiority complex who wants to be viewed as audacious, because it makes him feel like he has more control over situations and the people around him.
The observations in the film are quite astute if taken from a literary standpoint. There are numerous literary references (mostly to plays) that are explained in the commentary, and almost constant visual references. I found some of the visuals to assist the story even more than the dialogue, which isn't that surprising since there are many stretches of silence.
Anyway, I've rambled long enough. Everyone has their own opinion on this film, which is the way it should be. No one's opinion can be wrong or right, because it is all subjective.
--Heather
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http://www.dvdtracker.com/~ahber16.asp
[This message has been edited by DVDer (edited 07-13-1999).]
07-16-99, 07:25 AM
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DVDer:
I found your comments quite interesting, but here's my problem. The male characters in Labute's films are misogynists; there should be no disputing that fact. The fact that they are self hating may possibly be a reason for, and explanation of, or even an excuse for their behavior but it doesn't change it, and I finding it shocking that Labute disbutes this fact. It may be that Labute leans heavily on the modernist notion that people are primarily defined by what goes on in their head, while I lean more to the Aristotelian view of drama which says that people are defined by their actions. Still, Labute's claim is rather extreme.
Concerning the explanation about Jason Patric's character, I thinks it just furthers my dislike for the film. In my mind, Patric's character does the same thing that Labute's film do--****ing with an audience with no real purpose. His film exist to provoke reaction, not thought.
I do agree, however, that everyone has a right to her/his opinion and his films are respected enough by people I respect (including people on this forum)that they do deserve discussing, even if I feel they ultimately should be dismissed as "bad art."
For the people here who admire Labute's films, I am curious: How do you think his films compare to a film such as "Short Cuts," which in my mind accomplishes much of what Labute trys and fails to do.
[This message has been edited by Blip (edited 07-16-1999).]
[This message has been edited by Blip (edited 07-16-1999).]
I found your comments quite interesting, but here's my problem. The male characters in Labute's films are misogynists; there should be no disputing that fact. The fact that they are self hating may possibly be a reason for, and explanation of, or even an excuse for their behavior but it doesn't change it, and I finding it shocking that Labute disbutes this fact. It may be that Labute leans heavily on the modernist notion that people are primarily defined by what goes on in their head, while I lean more to the Aristotelian view of drama which says that people are defined by their actions. Still, Labute's claim is rather extreme.
Concerning the explanation about Jason Patric's character, I thinks it just furthers my dislike for the film. In my mind, Patric's character does the same thing that Labute's film do--****ing with an audience with no real purpose. His film exist to provoke reaction, not thought.
I do agree, however, that everyone has a right to her/his opinion and his films are respected enough by people I respect (including people on this forum)that they do deserve discussing, even if I feel they ultimately should be dismissed as "bad art."
For the people here who admire Labute's films, I am curious: How do you think his films compare to a film such as "Short Cuts," which in my mind accomplishes much of what Labute trys and fails to do.
[This message has been edited by Blip (edited 07-16-1999).]
[This message has been edited by Blip (edited 07-16-1999).]
07-17-99, 02:57 AM
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It has been quite some time since I last saw "Short Cuts," but here is my take on that sort of film versus LaBute.
Robert Altman's "Short Cuts" was more cohesive in it's storytelling. The stories are interlocking, whereas in "Your Friends & Neighbors," the stories effect, sometimes directly and sometimes indirectly, the other stories. They were shot in a way that they could fit anywhere in the movie (I found this interesting as I heard more about it).
Also, "Short Cuts" succeeds in developing characters that most viewers will care about, an area in which LaBute sometimes lacks. The characters in "Short Cuts," have, to borrow from Ebert's review, "A certain nobility to them," and there are no redeeming qualities or tangible feelings of hope in a LaBute film.
Blip, you brought up this excellent sub-topic, and I'd be interested in hearing the contrasts you find between "Short Cuts" and LaBute's work, and the reasons the former succeeds on levels the latter(s) do not.
--Heather
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http://www.dvdtracker.com/~ahber16.asp
[This message has been edited by DVDer (edited 07-16-1999).]
Robert Altman's "Short Cuts" was more cohesive in it's storytelling. The stories are interlocking, whereas in "Your Friends & Neighbors," the stories effect, sometimes directly and sometimes indirectly, the other stories. They were shot in a way that they could fit anywhere in the movie (I found this interesting as I heard more about it).
Also, "Short Cuts" succeeds in developing characters that most viewers will care about, an area in which LaBute sometimes lacks. The characters in "Short Cuts," have, to borrow from Ebert's review, "A certain nobility to them," and there are no redeeming qualities or tangible feelings of hope in a LaBute film.
Blip, you brought up this excellent sub-topic, and I'd be interested in hearing the contrasts you find between "Short Cuts" and LaBute's work, and the reasons the former succeeds on levels the latter(s) do not.
--Heather
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http://www.dvdtracker.com/~ahber16.asp
[This message has been edited by DVDer (edited 07-16-1999).]
07-19-99, 10:39 AM
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I saw "Short Cuts" quite a while back, but enjoyed it immensely. This is partly due to Ray Carver's source material, but it was still a good movie.
I'm intrigued at the similarities you bring up, Heather, and I'll let you know what I think after I see "Neighbors".
I'm intrigued at the similarities you bring up, Heather, and I'll let you know what I think after I see "Neighbors".
07-19-99, 11:58 AM
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I did not expect to enjoy YFAN as much as I did, considering the stomach-wrenching quality of ICOM's treatment of women. But I did. Definitely not for everyone.
As for Permanent Midnight, Ben Stiller could not be MORE brilliant than he was in this film, and the DVD is a good buy as well. If you enjoy the movie as much as I did, buy the book...it's even better.
As for Permanent Midnight, Ben Stiller could not be MORE brilliant than he was in this film, and the DVD is a good buy as well. If you enjoy the movie as much as I did, buy the book...it's even better.
07-19-99, 01:54 PM
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OK everyone, it's not fair to get me all excited about Short Cut's when it's not available on DVD 
I've been wating for this movie's release along with many others. I will have to go rent "Your Friends and Neighbors" now and keep the thread on topic.
Robert Jason
I've been wating for this movie's release along with many others. I will have to go rent "Your Friends and Neighbors" now and keep the thread on topic.Robert Jason
