FangsFirst

I read John Sinnott's DVD review of Mystery Science Theater 3000 Collection, Vol. 12 at http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/read.php?ID=31447 and...

I find it amusing that it seems that every time one of these sets is released that I refuse to buy on principle (I will have nothing to do with seasons 8-10), the reviews come in and say--without apparently acknowledging this split--that the included season 8-10 episodes are the weak ones. It's nice to find that I'm not just hating on 'em cause there's no Trace Beaulieu (and there IS a horrid host segment cast on the villain side...)

Oh well. I had no idea how to politely phrase an e-mail to Rhino asking them to stop mixing post-Trace seasons, so instead they are losing massive money on a fan of MST for the last 13-14 years.

(I'm sure most will roll their eyes and call me a whiner or whatever, but that's ok! I don't mind. I really hate those seasons.)

sb5

I doubt Rhino would care; for every person who hates the SciFi seasons to the extent that they wouldn't buy a set just because it dared to include an episode from that period, there's probably two or three times as many people who a) enjoyed the entire run of MST3K and has no problem buying a set with a varied mix, b) actually prefers those seasons and buys the set for those very episodes, and possibly wouldn't buy it if it didn't include SciFi episode(s), or c) simply buys the set anyway, even if it includes an episode from an era they're not a big fan of (every set, regardless of era, has been all over the place quality-wise). Your claim that your sole buying preferences is losing Rhino "massive money" is kinda silly; leaving out an entire era because of your (or any other fan's) personal preference would lose them far more.

Since full season sets are out of the question due to movie rights issues, it makes sense for Rhino to hedge their bets and release a mix of episodes across the various "eras" of MST3K to try to make the sets appealing (and thus, get money from) every group. It would be great if they released era-specific sets, but I doubt it will change anytime soon.

John Sinnott

It's ironic that you mention that. When reviewing one of the earlier sets I said that by watching the included episode from season nine (I believe) viewers could tell that the show had passed its prime and was a poor imitation of its earlier self.

People came out of the woodwork to scream about that generalization. There are a lot of fans of the later seasons, apparently who would point to one episode or another from these years as being a classic. I agree though, once Trace left, the show suffered greatly.

I do think you're missing out on some great shows by avioding these sets. Even the later episodes, while being the weakest members of the sets, are still worth watching. They may not be great, but they're still fun.

lotsofdvds

Put me in the camp of the "Sci Fi" episodes are better than the "Comedy Central" ones. It's not a Joel vs. Mike thing. I just find myself rewatching Sci Fi eps more often than the others.

Adam Tyner

I think it's like Mad Magazine, Saturday Night Live, or...well, any other long-running pop-culture institution: with some exceptions (so don't reply telling me I'm wrong! ), whichever era was on when you first tuned in tends to be your favorite. ("Mad Monster" was my introduction to MST3K, although I wasn't a regular viewer until season four.)

I'm much more of a Comedy Central-era fan, although there are certainly some strong episodes from the Sci-Fi run. I look at that as being a much more stark difference than the transition from Joel to Mike, even though the choice of host is what's usually debated.

Rhino could just as easily pick a clunker from the CC years as they could a gem from the Sci-Fi era, so I wouldn't avoid a set based on that alone.

sb5

I think trying to make a definitive statement about the quality of a different eras based on Rhino's (seemingly random) episode selection for collections is faulty, anyway. I mean, I think Parts is a decent episode, but I wouldn't consider it in the top tier for the SciFi era. And for Vol. 11, I don't think anyone would put Horrors of Spider Island in a "Best Of The SciFi Era" list, or even a "Kinda Okay Episodes from The SciFi Era" list.

It would be the equivalent of Rhino releasing "The Castle of Fu Manchu" on a collection, and someone using it as definitive proof that the Joel era was weak.

Ethan VanSciver

I love the Joel era of the show as well, but I find the very early episodes of MST3K are still coasting on the show's novel premise. The joke writing really doesn't seem to start clicking and being consistently funny and smart until around season 6, with the addition of Bill Corbett to the writing room.

The idea that the Sci Fi episodes aren't as entertaining as the Joel episodes, or the CC episodes...well, I just can't agree at all. PUMA MAN clobbers everything that came before.

Joel had a nurturing, paternal role with the bots, Mike was victimized by them usually. I thought the Mike stuff was funnier. Just my opinion.

milo bloom

I came into the show late, during the Mike era, and only caught a few episodes sporadically before it was cancelled. But I have purchased every official DVD release so far (even the mail order only Shorts Vol 3), up to this one, and that's only because of a temporary lack of funds.

There's so much to love about every era, and the fact that rights will keep many episodes from an official release, makes it seem so short-sighted to me to "boycott" a release just because it mixes Mike and Joel episodes. This show was one of a kind, and should be celebrated for it's ability to make so many changes over the year and still keep going.

FangsFirst

A-C actually support my point, especially B. If they kept them limited like that, then B fans would not skip CC-mixed sets either.
A&C don't care so they'd be fine if it switched to my preferred form as well.

And let me rephrase: I meant on a per-fan basis they are losing a lot on my part. I bought four sets, out of twelve, and have zero plans to buy any of the rest. Even if I'm the only one, alienating one person out of 2/3 of what they've released constitutes massive on that level. You're absolutely right that that makes no difference to them on a global level, but they'd have that 2/3 back and likely lose little or nothing in splitting them like I'd prefer.


They'd ONLY stand to gain from what I can see, so that's why I think it's completely reasonable--they clearly have the rights to enough episodes from both series, I don't see what the reasoning is, unless, from a marketing standpoint, they're hoping I'm going to be a big sucker and go "oh well, it's only one episode."
And hell, they STARTED them that way! v1-3 are CC, v4&5 are Sci-Fi and V6 is CC again...

I do know there are tons of fans of those seasons I so strongly dislike, I run across them all the time, all totally unaware the show was around for 7+ years before they started watching it, and it makes me sad, just because of some weird personal issues I have about original material (in this case, Crow's voice).
Which is my problem overall. I missed out on a ton of the show when I moved ca. 98 and had to get used to a new environment at a bad time, then was excited to see it return in a tv guide of some kind. I tuned in and my favourite bot's voice now sounded stupid, the jokes were less funny and the host segments on the villainous side were irritating and overlong.
I didn't immediately realize it was a full-fledged change in the show and would often try and tune out Bill Corbett's lame voice, but never could, because he also changed Crow's character. I'd've probably been happier if they'd just made up a new bot.
But I really can't stand his voice at all, as my ears keep trying to hear Trace's voice and of course Bill's is nothing like that and, imo, is more "generic." There was a lovely sarcastic bite to Trace's voice that I think is sorely lacking in those later seasons, as I find Bill's close to Kevin Murphy's (and I was always just shy of annoyed by Tom Servo, and now Kevin's role was multiplied on the show...).

But it's like Trace didn't matter, they just put someone else into Crow and moved on. I know there was an episode of explanation, but to me it's like if when Mike came on, they just pretended it was still Joel and called him Joel. It rubs me the wrong way. Make a new character! Like that silly 1998 Godzilla movie. It had nothing to do with Godzilla, so why even call it that?

And you have a Will Ferrell avatar, so it's only natural we have different taste in comedy
(Which is fine! I am not trying to insult you, but I am..ah...NOT a Ferrell fan)

I quite agree, everyone I know who likes the sci-fi episodes more saw them first...though they tend to agree, once shown them, that the earlier episodes are better. But then of course continue to hold the sci fi ones dear to their hearts as firsts.

Yeah, I actually had zero issue with that change. I remember it happening and being vaguely confused even as to why (I was fairly young) and then just shrugging because nothing felt worse.

Again, not mixing Joel and Mike but sci-fi and CC.

And the reason for my 'boycott' is because the sets very rarely go on sale and are $15 per movie (effectively)...and I really don't want sci-fi episodes in my collection, because I've never seen a single one I liked (and I have seen a number of them) and I really, really actively HATE the host segments. There is a distinct feel (for me, obviously this is a matter of opinion) that the show is tired and is NOT keeping going for me. It's not as funny and is more samey across the board. There's no feeling of distinct characters in the villains, like it's all one mishmash of similar personality types--and too many characters, at that. Like they were trying new things and they were all failing...miserably.

I say "principle," but that's not really the right word: it's because I really, really don't want those episodes, and don't want the others bad enough to swallow $15--or $45--that will go toward nothing I want to even possess.

lotsofdvds

I would. I love that episode.

milo bloom

I guess then that I could be considered lucky for missing the show for most of it's television lifespan. Nearly every box I buy is three (sometimes four, even) new episodes of MST3K for me to enjoy. Hell, I just saw my first Ed Wood movie recently via MSTy's "The Sinister Urge".

I've wished in the past that they would go back to single disc releases as it would please two groups of people: folks like the OP who can pick and choose, and the OCD folks like myself that would dearly love to put them in their proper airing order on my DVD shelf (and I just don't have the time nor resources to print my own covers. I would actually pay a company that would do that for me and mail them to me, preferably in slimcase size)

naitram

Rhino could care less whether you "stick to your guns" or not. There are many more people who will watch episodes from the entire run, sorry to say.

I like Joel, I really like Frank, but in my opinion the movies were just plain funnier to watch with Mike in there. And that's what constitutes the majority of the 90 minutes, so that's where I levitate. But I still want the entire series.

dhmac

As a long-time, dedicated MST fan, I think we are lucky to get any episodes at all released on DVD, so I don't complain too much about Rhino's odd groupings of episodes (although I do suspect that a dartboard is involved in the process).

But for fans of only certain era (or eras) of MST3K, NetFlix.com rents the discs from all of the set individually, so you could go the rental route to just see the episodes from just the seasons you prefer. (And NetFlix even still surprisingly has the unavailable "Vol. 10" episodes for rental.)