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Any Opinions on The Last Temptation of Christ: CC?

Old 02-05-03, 11:15 PM
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Any Opinions on The Last Temptation of Christ: CC?

This caught my eye at best buy, and I had no idea it existed. As far as I knew, Marty had only done commentary on "The Last Waltz", so I was suprised to see a CC version AND commentary. I was blown away by Gangs, and my Scorsese love reignited, but being a good little Cathloic boy growing up, I was kept from seeing this, and I'm wondering how it measures up as a film and as a DVD. I did read the review, but I"m looking for a few more opinions before I drop the 35 bucks on it.
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Old 02-06-03, 01:56 AM
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Great, thought-provoking film. Grabs ya right from the first scene (in fact, I was captivated before the first scene, with the great Peter Gabriel score and the thorns animation for the opening credits). Wonderfully put together in a minimalist style, which works tremendously well. I originally rented this from my college library, and immediately after checked out Nikos Kazantzakis' book, which was also fantastic. Which reminds me, I should pick it up sometime and re-read it (as well as add the book to my collection. And yes, my literature collection pales in comparison to my DVD collection).

Great DVD.

'Nuff said.
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Old 02-06-03, 07:35 AM
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Excellent film. Excellent disc. Lots of nice special features. If you are a Scorsese fan, you should have this dvd.
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Old 02-06-03, 09:38 PM
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If you grew up catholic, then you should definitely check this out
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Old 02-07-03, 07:32 AM
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Excellent film and one of my favorite Criterions. I believe Scorsese also did at least a partial commentary on The Red Shoes:Criterion
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Old 02-07-03, 03:37 PM
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Harvey Keitel as Judas, enough said. Great movie and a dvd. I especially love the Peter Gabriel score. It was one of my first dvd purchases. I was raised Catholic and I don't see anything wrong with this film, but I could see why Catholic Church might be against it. Because it tries to show Jesus as a human with faults and doubts, just like the rest of us.
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Old 02-07-03, 04:18 PM
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I'm not Catholic, I own ~60 CC DVDs, but not this one. Oh, and I love the movie.

I would say buy it if you haven't seen the movie before and think you'd like it, or if you found the movie to have a lot of replay value.

I have personal memories associated with seeing the film, and those would make it a tough watch for me again. That's the only reason it's not in my collection too.

(Though were the genitals always blurred out?)
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Old 02-08-03, 11:28 AM
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Originally posted by purplechoe
Harvey Keitel as Judas, enough said.
and David Bowie as Pontius Pilate! now enough said
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Old 02-08-03, 03:55 PM
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I generally like MS's work and I found the book riveting; the movie, however, left me cold. The script, the photography, the acting all seemed flat--as if Scorsese were trying too hard to capture some of the more cerebral elements of the book on film (w/o succeeding). I am glad I saw it, but it is not a title I would choose to own.

I truly do not understand the controversy surrounding this flick (or the book); both are clearly not anti-religious or anti-catholic or anti-anything for that matter. To the contrary, Last Temptation is, and was intended to be, a profoundly religious work.
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Old 02-09-03, 09:55 PM
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I too am glad I saw it, but I don't think its a title that I would own or watch again. The only reason that I considered buying it is because of the Scorsese commentary.
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Old 02-09-03, 10:09 PM
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Originally posted by audrey
I truly do not understand the controversy surrounding this flick (or the book); both are clearly not anti-religious or anti-catholic or anti-anything for that matter. To the contrary, Last Temptation is, and was intended to be, a profoundly religious work.
Yes, but it shows Jesus as struggling with a desire to get down, boogie, and sow his righteous oats. It also shows him struggling with a desire to escape into humanity, and deny his calling. The religious groups don't like to think of Jesus as being susceptible to worldly temptations, let alone, his loins.

It's not anti-religious, it's just, in the religious groups eyes, blasphemous.

What they forget is that Jesus was half human, kinda like Spock.
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Old 03-15-03, 08:01 PM
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I just saw it on the recommendation here, and I definately found it to be great work. But I agree with the high praise, and middle of the road feeling here. I loved what I saw, and thought it was great, but I think this really had the makings of being something special, but that last intangible didn't click. So much of the time, I thouught I was watching Bible scenes. Like ok here's the water into wine part, here's the burning bush part, rather than something cohesive. Keitel was laughable as Judas, but I gained a new perspective on the concepts of Judas and Jesus based on this film(and I should probably more properly assign credit to the book). And the extras were great, and were very true to Scorsese( I worked on a couple of films, and it's amazing to see how much his long time AD Joe Reidi is his general). Thats' full on display here, as Scorsese lets his personal camera roll during setups, rehersals and actual shots.

All in all, I wouldn't have been disapointed if I bought this, but I was glad to get the oppourtunity to see it for free from my public library. It's something that's on my buy list, but by no means near the top.
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Old 03-17-03, 01:53 AM
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FWIW, the score is availble as a CD called "Passion" and it is one of my favorite CDs, it is an amazing sonic experience. The disc is aptly named too, although you'll have to experience that for yourself.

Don't confuse it with "Passion Sources" which is Gabriel's compilation of "world music" artists that influenced the score - it is also a great CD but is an acquired taste if you haven't had much exposure to "world music."
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Old 03-21-03, 12:56 PM
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Originally posted by Mutley Hyde
What they forget is that Jesus was half human, kinda like Spock.
Yeah, but Spock got to have Pan Phar every 7 years
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Old 04-01-03, 05:00 PM
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As a Christian, I love the production, the script, and the score.

As theology, it's junk science, and it is blamsphmous and has as much in common with the Bible as The Ten Commandments does. Just another attempt to blast Christianity and theology in general.

Would love to see a similar treatment done on Mohammad....would love to see the praise for that one. Think Marty has the balls for that?
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Old 04-01-03, 06:28 PM
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Originally posted by Scot1458
As theology, it's junk science, and it is blamsphmous and has as much in common with the Bible as The Ten Commandments does. Just another attempt to blast Christianity and theology in general.
Per canon law, as a Catholic it is anathema to believe the Bible is the word of God; Last Temptation is rooted in Catholicism, not Protestantism.

More importantly, you are forgetting one of the essential questions underlying Christian theology; i.e. what is the nature of Christ? The issue surrounding the duality of Christ is raised in the Bible as well as the writings of numerous theologians and is fair game for interpretation. Why you suggest Last Temptation courts blasphemy is beyond me.

Last edited by audrey; 04-01-03 at 06:37 PM.
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Old 04-01-03, 09:00 PM
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Its the best movie based on Religion I've ever seen. Better and more thought provoking than stuff like the Ten Commandments or even Jesus of Nazareth.

Its a must see if you are an opened minded Christian or even an atheist. Its a film that invites discusion and thought about the subject matter. Everything a film should be.
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Old 04-01-03, 10:34 PM
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Originally posted by darkside
Its the best movie based on Religion I've ever seen.
Rapture is also thought provoking. Hopefully this title will show up on DVD sometime in the near future.
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Old 04-01-03, 10:37 PM
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Originally posted by Scot1458
As theology, it's junk science, and it is blamsphmous and has as much in common with the Bible as The Ten Commandments does. Just another attempt to blast Christianity and theology in general.
This is the typical Christian BS that gives the rest of us Christians a bad name! How do you know what the devil's last temptation was? I would think that this last temptation in the film would be the perfect temptation to try to pull on Christ!

This is typical the " if it isn't in the Bible it is blasphemy" and is just plain ignorant tripe and only proves to me those who throw out the blasphemy card time and time again are really just those who have such a shaky belief in God that they can't bare to see or hear things from a different viewpoint because it may change their beliefs! If your right with God you have nothing to fear from the spoken, written word which is contradictory to the Bible!
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Old 04-02-03, 12:01 AM
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Originally posted by audrey
Per canon law, as a Catholic it is anathema to believe the Bible is the word of God; Last Temptation is rooted in Catholicism, not Protestantism.

More importantly, you are forgetting one of the essential questions underlying Christian theology; i.e. what is the nature of Christ? The issue surrounding the duality of Christ is raised in the Bible as well as the writings of numerous theologians and is fair game for interpretation. Why you suggest Last Temptation courts blasphemy is beyond me.
The nature of Christ is found in the Gospels, and the Epistles and letters of the NT. Nothing in the LT relates to these works. "Fair Interpatation" mostly relates to artistic licnese of literary works....which is what I believe Marty and company think of the NT anyway.

So the LT is rooted in "Catholicism"? Let us see if we can get some feedback from the John Paul on that...shall we?
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Old 04-02-03, 12:09 AM
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This is the typical Christian BS that gives the rest of us Christians a bad name! How do you know what the devil's last temptation was? I would think that this last temptation in the film would be the perfect temptation to try to pull on Christ!

the movie is nothing more that speculation, which is the #1 reason why it is so popular, because it grates on Christians and theologicans....as for giving a "bad name", I could say the same for you.

The Gospels clearly state the three main tempations that the Devil gave to Christ, if the "last" was so profound, you would think one of the Gospel writers would have included it.

This is typical the " if it isn't in the Bible it is blasphemy" and is just plain ignorant tripe and only proves to me those who throw out the blasphemy card time and time again are really just those who have such a shaky belief in God that they can't bare to see or hear things from a different viewpoint because it may change their beliefs! If your right with God you have nothing to fear from the spoken, written word which is contradictory to the Bible!

Right, so I can make up anything about Christ or the Bible, without having ANY bibical or theolgical backing, and if someone doesn't agree with it claim it's just "ignorant tripe".


Nice. Show me something to back up the LT, and I'll listen.
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Old 04-02-03, 08:47 AM
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Originally posted by Scot1458
The nature of Christ is found in the Gospels, and the Epistles and letters of the NT. Nothing in the LT relates to these works. "Fair Interpatation" mostly relates to artistic licnese of literary works....which is what I believe Marty and company think of the NT anyway.
Hmmmm….if the nature of Chirst were so clear, why have theologians pondered this question for two thousand years? The scriptures describe Jesus as both a man and a god. Yet there are those who find in the bible justification to deny his divine nature (Adoptionistic Monarchianism, Ebionism) or reject his humanity (Docetism, Gnosticism, etc.). Even those who accept the duality of Christ often disagree on the fundamental nature of those dual identities (e.g. Nestorianism, Eutychianism, etc.). If you have read any of early church writings or studied theology up to the Reformation then you must be aware of these debates and the holly wars these controversies spawned. What you see as obvious has confounded theologians and biblical scholars since the death of Christ.

For Satan’s temptations to have any real meaning, Christ must posses a human mind/spirit. The bible is clear that Jesus was tempted (e.g. (Hebrews 4:15). Last Temptation presents a “what if” scenario that builds upon the theological question concerning the human nature of Christ. The movie assumes Jesus had a choice (this is especially clear in the book), that his path was not preordained; it’s power rests on the dramatic portrayal of the dilemma Jesus faced and what he must give up to accept his purpose.

So the LT is rooted in "Catholicism"? Let us see if we can get some feedback from the John Paul on that...shall we?
While it is true that The Church initially placed Kazantzakis’s novel on the forbidden reading list (and let’s not forget this is a work of fiction), the writings of Martin Luther and Calvin were also initially banned. Because the controversies surrounding the nature of Christ predate Protestantism by over a thousand years, because there are so many early church (i.e. Catholic) writings on this subject, and because these controversies are central to the evolution of Catholic thought, the work is clearly grounded in Catholicism. Moreover, as noted previously Catholics to not believe the Bible is the divine word of God; this view is a unique product of the Reformation and in Catholicism is tantamount to heresy.

Last edited by audrey; 04-02-03 at 08:49 AM.
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Old 04-02-03, 09:35 AM
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Nothing like a good ol' religious debate I tell ya! I don't do these to much anymore..takes to much out of me.

Even after you said all that, you still did not answer the question. Show me in all of the Bible where Jesus was tempted by woman....anywhere. The biggest hint of tempation probally is found in the Garden of Gethseneme, where he prayed for the Lord to "take this cup" from him and spare him the ordeal of which he was going to go through....not by offering him a family and sex.

Yet Marty shows Jesus as he did, which was ONLY done to ignite, offend, and create controversey.

And using Luther's works from the 17th Century as evidence of what consists of "banned" books is intellecutally dishonest. Talk of the statue of limitations!

I'm hoping Mel Gibson's Jesus movie is THE movie on the life of Christ and the Passion. But since it sounds like Jesus won't be a homosexual or murder or something, most of you will dimiss it as "propaganda."

Just my useless .02
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Old 04-02-03, 09:38 AM
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Originally posted by Scot1458
Yet Marty shows Jesus as he did, which was ONLY done to ignite, offend, and create controversey.
Show me one quote from Scorcese claiming that these were his goals in making the film. You can use the commentary if you'd like.
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Old 04-02-03, 09:58 AM
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Why do so many think this movie had a message at all? It was a movie, and nothing more. The last time I checked the yellow pages, I couldn't find Hogwarts anywhere.

This movie, to me, was nothing more than entertainment, much like Howard Stern's show. To compare it to the bible, to debate it as if it was some kind of epipheny is ridiculous. I found it to be an interesting view of Jesus' walk on the earth. But I wouldn't waste two minutes comparing it to the bible.

Heck, even the different sects of the Christian faith can't agree on what really happened.

I bet even Christ himself had a good laugh when he watched it.
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