ckolchak

picked up the Kenwood-503 HTIAB and have had it about a week.
it's ok...certainaly a little more expansive than the tv speakers, but it definately lacks the punch i was expecting from a surround system. I realize for under $450 i can't really expect much ( someone at an HT store said i would need to have spent about 1K more than i did to get a decent entry level system....waaaay out of the budget for the foreseeable future)
my question is:
should i keep it anyway and just work to replacing the speakers and then eventually the reciever w/ good quality comopnents...or just take the whole thing back and try to score another HTIAB for about $6-700?
the only thing i'm really underwhelmed w/ is the surround.
i don't sense much activity from behind, everything seems to stay pretty much up front.
would replacing the rears right away improve the situation, or are my preconceptions about surround sound wrong in the first place?
how about buying new fronts and moving the existing fronts to the rear?
any help is appreciated.

palebluedot

That model boasts 100watts per channel so it would seem like it would be powerfull enough, so upgrading the speakers might help but then you are defeating the purpose of buying a HTIAB in the first place, which is cost. The other problem is with wattage ratings. There is no standard to which companies must adhere to, like an ISO standard, so companies can pretty much claim what they want, though most are pretty honest about their products. That system may be able to produre 100watts peak power for quick necessity but it may only produce 35watts per channel on a continual basis.

If you go with seperates (i.e. receiver and speaker package) you could do it for under $900. I would suggest maybe a middle of the road Sony or Marantz or a low end Denon and the Energy Take 5 speaker system. You can get the Energy system for under $500 and they are excellent sounding speakers for the price.

Also before you do anything else make sure all of your speakers are set up right with the proper volume level going to them. They should be balanced all the way around and this is easiest done with an SPL meter ($29 from radio shack).

[Edited by palebluedot on 02-28-01 at 07:08 AM]

DigIt

Well, you might have preconceptions. Any system like the HTB will not have a whole lot of punch, but the surround sound should be evident. Having full-size speakers all around makes a difference, but I'm not sure what were you expecting. If you switch from surround to stereo in the middle of the movie, do you notice a huge collapse in the soundfield? That's what surround sound is supposed to do. The best way to appreciate what you're getting is to remove a speaker and see what you'd be missing.

How big is your room? If it's huge, then you should have invested in a bigger system. If it's average or small, then you should be fine. If you properly calibrate the system, you should have good sound without any gaping holes. If you're looking for more punch, however, adding full-size speakers will generally give you a sense of more volume.

What movies have you listened to? Not all DD and Pro Logic stuff has dynamic surround sound. Try searching for a few demo scenes and see if you can find something cool that will showcase DD 5.1. Base your decision on that instead. Most movies don't use surround gimmicks all the time, they only employ them in key sequences to get your attention -- otherwise, they're distracting. If you'd like some more suggestions, please post.

I think it would be best for you to keep the system as it is and look to replace the main speakers first. The system is good enough to build on so don't give up on it yet. When you do get new speakers, move the current mains to the surround position and get rid of the wimpy surrounds. You can then upgrade the sub and center as you see fit. I would build off this system, and give yourself some time to settle into the surround sound.

tanman

in my opinion maybe a good interim surround system would be the Cambridge Ensemble IV on sale during march madness at hifi.com for 150, it retails for 400. not really the best but after you upgrade maybe you can use it on another tv.

juice21

I bought a Kenwood V409 HT in a box, the predecessor to this unit while in college. I am now upgrading the speakers(polks), and then moving to a Onkyo 777 or maybe a equal Denon model. My suggestion would to stick with this unit. It is not the best, but for the price I think it is the best power/sound you can get. If you are really looking for more surround effects, you can either meter it, or you can beyond that and lie to the reciever. If you go into the speaker set-up, you can set the distance and db of output to each individual speaker. So if you set all of them to the correct distances, and then keep adding distance to the rears, you will notice the rear soundstage grow. I would take the suggestions of all the above listed methods first, to truly set it up right. But this will work if all else fails. I would suggest this, before upgrading to a $900-1000 mediocre unit, and use this until you can upgrade, speaker by speaker, unit by unit. It may take awhile, but I think it is your best bet.

Thunderball

Are you using a digital connection? And do you have the DVD Player set up right?
Make sure you are using either a digital coaxial or a digital optical connection from the DVD player to the receiver.
Also, make sure you have the Dolby Digital and DTS turned ON in your DVD player menu.
If either of these two aren't being done, chances are you are only using the PRO LOGIC sound. I had the Kenwood, so if you have any questions feel free to email me.

juice21

Just in addition to this, you can check the display panel on the front of your reciever. You can tell if it is in DD or DPL bye the speaker indicators. If it is in DD, both rear speaker boxes should have letter in them, if it is only reading PL, the letter will be in between the speaker boxes, indicating one single rear channel. Just an easy check.

ckolchak

thanks for all the input!
i do notice a change in the soundfield when i toggle between pro logic/3 stereo/stereo. i thought it was odd but the pro logic is much more...discrete. the 3 stereo/stero settings seem more robust, but not quite right.
i may pop over to circuit city and pick up some decent speakers, maybe even a good center, to try out in front and move the others to the rear, just to satisfy my curiousity.

i'm not using any digital connections...just plain ole rca jacks. i'll look into those tonight as well.

DigIt

Yeah, while you're at CC tonight, do yourself a favor and pick up a digital interconnect so that you can start listening to DD and DTS instead of just DPL. No wonder you were underwhelmed...

chess

LOL!

ZenDog

Well he may be using the Digital Coax hookup for 5.1 so he would simply use a RCA cable. It does not seem like he is doing this though.

Ckolchak,
Make sure you are using some sort of digital connection for your audio. A digital cable should run from your dvd player to your reciever. This cable could be either a digital coax cable (a single RCA cable) or an optical cable. If you don't have a digital connection hooked up and are only using the left and right composite hook-ups (red and white RCA cables), then go out and buy a shielded 75ohm RCA cable to use for a digital coax connection. Right now you are not experiencing dolby digital, only pro-logic...yuck.

Johnny Zhivago

Yup, seems like the problem is that you're not even listening to DD and DTS...

SoSpacey

The best recommendation I heard in this post was for you to bring this system back.

You are going to start upgrading this thing in a month anyway - trust me.

Get your money back and buy the above recommended Energy system. Then buy either an Onkyo or Yamaha receiver (If you search hard you can find one with DTS for around $320. The difference in the 2 systmes will be very noticable.

Dont worry about watts. A Yamaha/Onkyo at 70/per will sounded louder and cleaner then that kenwood. Stay away from Sony receivers in that price range.

Spend the 800 now, because you will spend it soon anyway.

I am using Sony speakers right now, and the muffled crap that comes out of my center channel makes me sick. I just cant replace my speakers until I find a house.

And get yourself a digital connection. I hear that helps.

ckolchak

amazing what a $9 piece of cable will do.

yes, right now i feel like a big stooge.
i thought the digital coax was just a glorified rca jack.
don't think i'll be taking this back as i can see(hear) now what all the fuss is about. for my situation/room this system looks like it will be perfect for me.

Good Lord, even the Sub is blasting now!
i thought because i was hearing a difference in sounds w/ the rears that it was hooked up right before, but thanks for setting me straight.

cloud

One thing you have to keep in mind about this set is that it does not include a subwoofer. What looks like a subwoofer is actually a woofer for the front speakers. I have these speakers which I bought several years ago before I was knowledgeable about HT, not realising this fact. If you do buy this setup then you will also have to but a subwoofer seperately.

D113

A whle back in the thread, I tink there was the first reply, the poster mentioned that there's no standard for recievers.

Actually if I'm not correct, THX cerification IS a standard.

Regarding output, (volume etc..) THX has strict guidelines that must be met.

So, getting a THX, THX select and THX Ultra certified reciever, would ensure top quality, if not the best quality.


In final, if you are going to be a new reciever, buy a THX certified one,.. DENON's got the best out there, and at this past CES, there are few more companies that will be bringing out THX cert. gear.

D

tanman

One thing you have to keep in mind about this set is that it does not include a subwoofer. What looks like a subwoofer is actually a woofer for the front speakers. I have these speakers which I bought several years ago before I was knowledgeable about HT, not realising this fact. If you do buy this setup then you will also have to but a subwoofer seperately. [/B][/QUOTE]

Im not sure if i understand this. what do you mean by a woofer for the front speakers what is actually in that box? besides that fact do you like the speakers. i mean i was toying with the idea since you really cannot get a whole set of speakers for 150$ and Im talking about decent sound quality for that price. don't throw out a suggestion to buy B&W speakers. i hate it when people do that. especially when talking about lenses. sorry ok im done venting.

Thunderball

I'm glad you got your system set up right. I figured you didn't have an digital connection.
I did the same thing, then I stopped buying things at Circuit City and moved to a high end shop.
I'm glad you're enjoyed, and yes the difference is AMAZING!

ZenDog

Glad to see we got you all set up. You now can appreciate how the difference between DD and DPL is like night and day.

cloud

Im not sure if i understand this. what do you mean by a woofer for the front speakers what is actually in that box? besides that fact do you like the speakers. i mean i was toying with the idea since you really cannot get a whole set of speakers for 150$ and Im talking about decent sound quality for that price. don't throw out a suggestion to buy B&W speakers. i hate it when people do that. especially when talking about lenses. sorry ok im done venting. [/B][/QUOTE]

I am not an expert on speakers and this is what a friend of mine told me who is pretty knowledgeable and started out with the same speakers before moving on to better ones. Most speakers have a woofer and a tweeter, however the CSW's only have tweeters, and the seperate enclosure is the woofer part. Unfortunately CSW misleads people by calling it a subwoofer when infact it is not. It's a woofer for the front speakers and does not provide the LFE that an actual subwoofer does. I was mislead too until he told me otherwise. I was going to buy a subwoofer, but I decide to hold off and upgrade all my speakers in one go sometime hopefully in the near future.

tanman

I am not an expert on speakers and this is what a friend of mine told me who is pretty knowledgeable and started out with the same speakers before moving on to better ones. Most speakers have a woofer and a tweeter, however the CSW's only have tweeters, and the seperate enclosure is the woofer part. Unfortunately CSW misleads people by calling it a subwoofer when infact it is not. It's a woofer for the front speakers and does not provide the LFE that an actual subwoofer does. I was mislead too until he told me otherwise. I was going to buy a subwoofer, but I decide to hold off and upgrade all my speakers in one go sometime hopefully in the near future. [/B][/QUOTE]

ahhhh.....I see. so it is not like the bose system but just a woofer probably not powered either. ahhhhh....I see.

cloud

ahhhh.....I see. so it is not like the bose system but just a woofer probably not powered either. ahhhhh....I see. [/B][/QUOTE]

Yes it's a passive woofer, not an active or powered woofer.

DVD_O_Rama

Actually, you aren't correct. THX is not a standard by any means. THX certification of a piece of hardware is not an assurance of the best quality, nor is it an assurance of top quality. THX branding of an A/V component is an assurance that that manufacturer paid a licensing fee to have THX put their name on it.
If it means that much to you to line George Lucas' pockets by supporting THX, I guess you could by one of those new THX certified computers that's hitting the market.

DigIt

Well, THX certification is a standardization, but just because a product meets THX's standard does not mean it will meet yours, so always base your purchases on standards that you've set and don't rely on someone else's opinion.
(BTW, I do think that the fact that they certify computer speakers speaks volumes about their [quote/unquote] high standards.)

D113

Yes.. I thought it was a standardization, (which was what my original idea was..)

And, if the THX standard includes, ie, amplifier output before % distortion, and clipping,.. which is usually a lot better than most non-thx recievers, than you definitely have a better product.

I dont have a THX cert. amp right now, but for high-fidelity listeners, there's definitely a difference.

Also, THX cert. also includes the best post production audio mastering similarites to home listening. For instance, becuase the audio masterign of THX movies is also governed by THX standards, when you listen to the movie at home, you are getting the best possible reproduction of what the person in the studio-mixing chair was hearing. And quite often the director is sitting right there as well during the audio post production, so you are hearing it the way the director wanted it to be heard.

One thing i should mention is that for proper THX listening, you should then use THX cert. speakers to ensure the closest replication of quality, but there are many manufacturors out there that meet and exceed THX's qualification standards.

Glad to see someone else has done their research.

D