subwoofers: down-firing or front-firing?
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I am trying to complete my home theatre setup and all I am lacking is a subwoofer. I don't understand what the benefit differences are between a down-firing & front-firing sub. I like the look of the down-firing because it is more aesthetically pleasing. But I don't know if it is the wrong choice.
I have a huge room (by my standards) that is 15 feet wide by 20 feet long. The ceiling is 20 feet high. My thought is that the down-firing sub would be better so that the sound doesn't just radiate into the 20 foot ceiling. But that is my amateur assessment. As has been stated before, you guys are the experts. Tell me what you think.
I am looking at the Klipsch KSW-10,12,or15 which is a down-firing sub. I am wanting to spend from $150 to $300. Any suggestions in this area? And where is the cheapest place to buy these subs on the internet?
Thanks in advance!
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"Off to the movies we shall go, where we learn everything that we know"
-Stan, Kyle, Eric, & Kenny in South Park: Bigger, Longer, & Uncut
I have a huge room (by my standards) that is 15 feet wide by 20 feet long. The ceiling is 20 feet high. My thought is that the down-firing sub would be better so that the sound doesn't just radiate into the 20 foot ceiling. But that is my amateur assessment. As has been stated before, you guys are the experts. Tell me what you think.
I am looking at the Klipsch KSW-10,12,or15 which is a down-firing sub. I am wanting to spend from $150 to $300. Any suggestions in this area? And where is the cheapest place to buy these subs on the internet?
Thanks in advance!
------------------
"Off to the movies we shall go, where we learn everything that we know"
-Stan, Kyle, Eric, & Kenny in South Park: Bigger, Longer, & Uncut
#2
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Check out the reviews by the "Ace of Bass," Tom Nousaine of Sound and Vision, May 2000 under "Bargain Bassment" at http://www.soundandvisionmag.com
Of the five subs (including a Klipsch KSW-12) reviewed, Nousaine recommended the Hsu VTF-2 (US$475-$550 online) and the Mission 700AS (US$300-$350 street; even cheaper in Canada).
The Mission 700ASi replaces the 700AS with an upgraded 150W amp (700AS has a 100W amp) and a crossover bypass switch. The 700AS, a 10 inch woof, measures 16"x17"x18" and weighs in at around 35-40 pounds.
Nousaine's measurements on the Mission 700AS (10% distortion, 2 metres in a large 7500 cu.ft. room, corner loaded):
LFE: 102 dB at 25Hz
Average SPL: 108.1 dB between 25-62Hz
As for downward or front firing subs, I don't think it really matters since bass is non-directional to say around 80Hz. Some people prefer downward firing so the driver is not exposed to children. Others prefer front firing so they can see the sub's driver shake during the heavy bass scenes.
Since you have a large room, I am not sure if one sub will do it. It really depends on how loud you use your system at. But for $300 or less, you can't really expect subs in this price range to give the performance like a sub that costs several thousands.
The Mission 700ASi lists for CDN$540 (US$350) in Canada. The Canadian street prices range from CDN$400-$450 (US$260-$300). As for a Canadian online dealer, I would recommend Marc Hallam at http://www.audioshop.on.ca In July, Marc gave me a competitive quote on a Mission 700AS. However, I bought a pair of 700AS at a B&M dealer during my holidays.
Good luck.
Dave
[This message has been edited by DavidY (edited January 01, 2001).]
Of the five subs (including a Klipsch KSW-12) reviewed, Nousaine recommended the Hsu VTF-2 (US$475-$550 online) and the Mission 700AS (US$300-$350 street; even cheaper in Canada).
The Mission 700ASi replaces the 700AS with an upgraded 150W amp (700AS has a 100W amp) and a crossover bypass switch. The 700AS, a 10 inch woof, measures 16"x17"x18" and weighs in at around 35-40 pounds.
Nousaine's measurements on the Mission 700AS (10% distortion, 2 metres in a large 7500 cu.ft. room, corner loaded):
LFE: 102 dB at 25Hz
Average SPL: 108.1 dB between 25-62Hz
As for downward or front firing subs, I don't think it really matters since bass is non-directional to say around 80Hz. Some people prefer downward firing so the driver is not exposed to children. Others prefer front firing so they can see the sub's driver shake during the heavy bass scenes.
Since you have a large room, I am not sure if one sub will do it. It really depends on how loud you use your system at. But for $300 or less, you can't really expect subs in this price range to give the performance like a sub that costs several thousands.
The Mission 700ASi lists for CDN$540 (US$350) in Canada. The Canadian street prices range from CDN$400-$450 (US$260-$300). As for a Canadian online dealer, I would recommend Marc Hallam at http://www.audioshop.on.ca In July, Marc gave me a competitive quote on a Mission 700AS. However, I bought a pair of 700AS at a B&M dealer during my holidays.
Good luck.
Dave
[This message has been edited by DavidY (edited January 01, 2001).]
#3
quote:<HR>Originally posted by DavidY:
... But for $300 or less, you can't really expect subs in this price range to give the performance like a sub that costs several thousands. ...
<HR>
I agree. Good deep bass is expensive. If you limit yourself to $300 you're only going to find yourself upgrading later. My first inexpensive sub now helps enhance the rears. If you can't afford the best consider getting one used. I'm crazy about my second hand PSB Stratus Subsonic 3i (~$950 new) that I purchased from a friend for ~$475 (with monster cable ).
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#4
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So I looked on that www.audioshop.on.co and they had the Mission for a little over $300 US. That may be a good price. Anybody know where I could get the Hsu? Can't seem to find any online. Also, is there a cheaper place to get the Mission sub. It seems to be the cheaper of the two as DavidY pointed out.
By the way, thanks for the imput guys. I will definitely go for one of these better two subs after reading Sound&Vision's review.
[This message has been edited by normy22 (edited January 01, 2001).]
By the way, thanks for the imput guys. I will definitely go for one of these better two subs after reading Sound&Vision's review.
[This message has been edited by normy22 (edited January 01, 2001).]
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you can get the HSU directly from the manufacturer www.hsuresearch.com mine should be here by this friday i hope.
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Mine face backwards. They fire towards the wall and then bounce back to the seating area with a slight delay (time analized).
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Regards...
Drinker of much Pepsi, trainer of Dingo's and Jack's Aussie Moonshine importer...
John 3:16
#7
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Normy22,
I think that you can check with Audiosurvey for a review on Audioshop. In order to get the best price from Audioshop, you should e-mail Marc (his address is at the site) with your zip/postal code. Then, he can email you the delivered price including shipping to your address. At least, that's what he did with my query. The price listed at the website is the Canadian MSRP....so you should expect a discount...say 15 or 20% off the listed price. Also, you might want ask about delivery time (they didn't have any in stock when I emailed in June ).
The Mission 700AS has a limited feature set. There is no on/off/auto-on switch, only auto-on which shuts off the sub after a period of inactivity. I think that it's around 10 minutes after loss of LFE signal. As a result, this can be irritating (the "pop" when the sub shuts off) if you listen to music or movies without a lot of bass. I kinda wish that they had spent the bucks to add a proper switch.
Dave
[This message has been edited by DavidY (edited January 01, 2001).]
I think that you can check with Audiosurvey for a review on Audioshop. In order to get the best price from Audioshop, you should e-mail Marc (his address is at the site) with your zip/postal code. Then, he can email you the delivered price including shipping to your address. At least, that's what he did with my query. The price listed at the website is the Canadian MSRP....so you should expect a discount...say 15 or 20% off the listed price. Also, you might want ask about delivery time (they didn't have any in stock when I emailed in June ).
The Mission 700AS has a limited feature set. There is no on/off/auto-on switch, only auto-on which shuts off the sub after a period of inactivity. I think that it's around 10 minutes after loss of LFE signal. As a result, this can be irritating (the "pop" when the sub shuts off) if you listen to music or movies without a lot of bass. I kinda wish that they had spent the bucks to add a proper switch.
Dave
[This message has been edited by DavidY (edited January 01, 2001).]
#8
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Normy22, When I was purchasing my speakers, the Sub was the most important decision to me and the hardest one to make. I didn't think the sound room was the proper place to listen, so the salesman and myself lugged 3 different subs to the "Family-Den" simulator room that they had.
The first one was a front firing 10" JBL, then we lugged in the down firing 12" Infinity BU-2 and it sounded much better.
I thought that the diff. between the 10" and the 12" was not a fair comparison. He brought in a front firing 12" of what brand,I'm not sure. The 12" down firing BU-2 sounded the best by far and gave an all-around the room bass feel, where as the front firing 12", seemed to come from one central point.
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Infinity Speakers: RS5 Towers, CC3 Center, BU2 Sub, RS3 Rears.
The first one was a front firing 10" JBL, then we lugged in the down firing 12" Infinity BU-2 and it sounded much better.
I thought that the diff. between the 10" and the 12" was not a fair comparison. He brought in a front firing 12" of what brand,I'm not sure. The 12" down firing BU-2 sounded the best by far and gave an all-around the room bass feel, where as the front firing 12", seemed to come from one central point.
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Harman Kardon DVD50 DVD Player, AVR510 A/V Reciever.
Infinity Speakers: RS5 Towers, CC3 Center, BU2 Sub, RS3 Rears.
#9
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I purchased a Hsu VTF-2 two months or so ago from www.jeffssoundvalues.com. This place is an authorized Hsu dealer and I got mine for $425 + shipping. I had seriously considered a Klipsch KSW-12 but I thought there would be less potential to have to upgrade sooner with the Hsu...and it was less than $100 more than the Klipsch.
This Hsu has an auto on/off similar to what DavidY describes the Mission as having. It can be slightly annoying but I probably wouldn't let it stop me from buying one of these again.
I'm not much of an audiophile so any reviews you find on this model can probably say it better than I can....suffice to say I was pleased with my purchase though.
This Hsu has an auto on/off similar to what DavidY describes the Mission as having. It can be slightly annoying but I probably wouldn't let it stop me from buying one of these again.
I'm not much of an audiophile so any reviews you find on this model can probably say it better than I can....suffice to say I was pleased with my purchase though.
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quote:<HR>Originally posted by vwbeetlvr:
also note if you have a carpeted room a DOWN firing sub will most likely be absorbed by the carpet.<HR>
While carpet may slightly absorb some of the sound from the sub it will not make a noticeable difference. Low frequency sound waves can measure up to 20ft long. There is no way that carpet will absorb much of the bass at all. I have the down firing Acoustic Research ARS500 in my carpeted bedroom and the things hits like a beast. I like down firing subs because they seem to disperse bass more evenly throughout a room and it seems easier to find a spot where they sound good in a room. IMHO
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quote:<HR>Originally posted by vwbeetlvr:
also note if you have a carpeted room a DOWN firing sub will most likely be absorbed by the carpet.<HR>
Solution - posted over at HTF: get a slab of marble or concrete and put it underneath the sub. Not only will this make the bass not vibrate the floor as much (helpful if you have neighbors under you), but is supposed to "tighten" the bass up as well...also rumored to make it "hit harder"..
[This message has been edited by jellis (edited January 03, 2001).]
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quote:<HR>Originally posted by jellis:
Solution - posted over at HTF: get a slab of marble or concrete and put it underneath the sub. Not only will this make the bass not vibrate the floor as much (helpful if you have neighbors under you), but is supposed to "tighten" the bass up as well...also rumored to make it "hit harder"..
[This message has been edited by jellis (edited January 03, 2001).]<HR>
I'd stick with the opinion of Tom Vodhanel, the 'V' in SVS subwoofers. His advice:
"don't worry about concrete slabs"
I think I'd trust him more then some others on this subject
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A big THANK YOU to everyone who posted and helped me out. I decided on the Mission 700ASi. It came highly regarded as a great value for the low price. I have read that it is a $500 sub that performs like a $1500 sub. It is on it's way from Canada a la Marc at the AudioShop or www.audioshop.on.ca . By the way, I got the BEST customer service when I talked to him. This is something that I cannot say about my experiences at my local A/V Store but I won't mention any names... STEREO ONE in Cape Girardeau, MO... but I digress.
So thanks again to all that helped. You are all good people.
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"Off to the movies we shall go, where we learn everything that we know"
-Stan, Kyle, Eric, & Kenny in South Park: Bigger, Longer, & Uncut
So thanks again to all that helped. You are all good people.
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"Off to the movies we shall go, where we learn everything that we know"
-Stan, Kyle, Eric, & Kenny in South Park: Bigger, Longer, & Uncut
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I myself have always preferred a front firing sub as you FEEL the air movement as well as bass when it's directed at the listening position.
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Hey Normy,
Howdy neighbor - my local A/V store is also Stereo One in Cape (I'm from Sikeston, MO). I started buying online a couple of years ago and while I still go into Stereo One and check them out before I buy - most of my future purchases will be from the web. They have some nice stuff at SO but their prices are too high. They feel like they don't need to deal too much since they have little/no competition. Where are you located - in Cape?
Mike
EDIT - Hey I just saw you are in Sikeston, too. Small world - out of the several HT forums I frequent you are the first HT nut in my town - cool.
[This message has been edited by knit-witt (edited January 09, 2001).]
Howdy neighbor - my local A/V store is also Stereo One in Cape (I'm from Sikeston, MO). I started buying online a couple of years ago and while I still go into Stereo One and check them out before I buy - most of my future purchases will be from the web. They have some nice stuff at SO but their prices are too high. They feel like they don't need to deal too much since they have little/no competition. Where are you located - in Cape?
Mike
EDIT - Hey I just saw you are in Sikeston, too. Small world - out of the several HT forums I frequent you are the first HT nut in my town - cool.
[This message has been edited by knit-witt (edited January 09, 2001).]