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-   -   Digital Coax Cable?? (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/dvd-home-theater-gear/61483-digital-coax-cable.html)

Patman 03-16-00 11:23 AM

AlanUK, the DD decoder DECODES the bitstream into 6 discrete channels of audio information that gets sent out to the amp (and preamp outputs, like the LFE). The decompression of each channel has already been done on the encoding/mixing process.

No one has mentioned that jitter is not really a problem with Dolby Digital or dts bitstream because the bitstream gets re-clocked on the decoder side (this doesn't happen with CD PCM audio, thus some people's need for a jitter re-clocker in between the CD digial audio output and the receiver's digital audio input). The decoder either decodes the audio information, or dropouts occur. That is it. There is not extra lost information that gets interpolated by the DD decoder. If the checksum in the error correction scheme doesn't match up, it bit of bytes becomes a dropout and the decoder goes to the next bucket of bits.

A generic 75 Ohm shielded coaxial cable with RCA cable (that is working normally, and has no shorts or open circuits along the cable) should work just as well as the "expensive" cables. These cables are just transmitting low level signal, and truly don't require anything out of the ordinary to function well. These wire are just transmitting voltage levels which are interpreted by the decoder has either a 1 or a 0 by the voltage level it receives once it's been re-clocked.

The "fuller soundstage, the openness, yadda yadda" that you may hear comes from the interaction between the receiver's preamp and amp sections (or if you have separates, your preamp/processor and your amplifier). It's not coming from a better cable that's delivering the DD bitstream from the DVD player to the receiver's (or processor's) Digital audio inputs, because it should either transmit the audio information or it doesn't.

If your talking speaker wire, then it's a new can of worms, and speaker wire does matter for High Fidelity audio. http://talk.dvdtalk.com/ubb/biggrin.gif


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PatCave ;HT Pix ;Pat's DVDs

Wolfchild 03-16-00 12:41 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Alan UK:
Check out this on DVDfile....another fool I guess?DVDfile Better Cables Review
]
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Alan, did you notice though that he could find zero difference between the BetterCable and the $255 one? Too bad he didn't test a $4.99 RS Gold Shielded but he was probably scared to do that http://talk.dvdtalk.com/ubb/smile.gif BTW most of us that say receiver probably do have a receiver; I know my Onkyo 575 has a radio tuner.

Patman, I always enjoy your informative posts on hardware. I was just wondering, and this probably wouldn't apply to really high-end equipment, but INSIDE of a DVD player or receiver, what kind of wires resume the digital connection internally? I mean if you have this nice Monster cable between the units but inside of the DVD player or receiver it just has a small cheap wire, there again I can't see how much good it could do even on analog connections. Just wondering.


bdshort 03-16-00 02:39 PM

Alan UK: maybe an .mp3 file would be a better example then :-) If you get a .mp3 that has been corrupted, it just sounds really screwed up, not less open or what not.
Re the coat hanger, the guy that did this experiment had no errors reported by the DD decoder, and said it sounded fine. And considering there were no errors in the transmission, this would make sense.

Patman: Nice post there... I had a general idea of how DD worked, but your post definitely cleared up a lot of that for me. Thanks. I do think there is some room for debate on how cables carrying analog signals affect the sound, but I think you probably would reach a point of diminishing returns VERY quickly. The people that have speaker wire stands, or wire encased in water filled tubes, and what not are all insane however :-)

Patman 03-16-00 02:45 PM

Wolfie, for low level signals, normal circuit board traces can carry sufficient electron flow to produce the small signal voltage levels for the audio information, so even with cheap electronics, the electrons are still flowing. Believe me, it's in the power transmission of speaker wires that have more of an effect on your audio enjoyment, and even that is perhaps a 20% gain in enjoyment from good to great systems. The law of diminishing returns works great for high end audio gear.

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PatCave ;HT Pix ;Pat's DVDs

Kelvecion 03-17-00 03:46 PM

Interesting topic. I changed my optical cable for a digital co-ax cable, and the sound was so improved, I might have upgraded my amp. My girlfiend, who is always sceptical of anything I buy that cannot be worn, readily agreed that the sound was significantly better. 1's and 0's - Bah! Humbug!

Stephen -

(by the way, I enjoyed reading through the previous replies. Very informat - at - tive!)

Wolfchild 03-17-00 09:56 PM

This debate is raging on some other forums as well. One thing I read was that when you use a Toslink you are using a different interface than with coax and there seems to be a majority that think the coax DOES sound better. Maybe the optical interface in most receivers/dvd players is somewhat inferior? Just wondering....

One other thing, no offense to anyone, but I have better things to do than listen to something fifty frickin times A-B to hear some minor tonal balance between an expensive and a cheap digital connection. This is the kind of testing I'm reading about on the other forums. If it's that hard to tell if you're hearing a difference it sounds like a big waste of time to me. But I guess I'm just not an audiophile to that degree.


Furious 03-18-00 07:57 AM

http://www.magnani.net/~al/DigitalWireLabTest.html

an intersting read...anyways I was purchasing a new dvd player today and as I was demoing some models the salesman switched interconnects to show me the "difference"...I didn't notice anything different across the spectrum...placebo..placebo...

bdshort 03-18-00 02:28 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Furious:
http://www.magnani.net/~al/DigitalWireLabTest.html

an intersting read...anyways I was purchasing a new dvd player today and as I was demoing some models the salesman switched interconnects to show me the "difference"...I didn't notice anything different across the spectrum...placebo..placebo...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is the article I was talking about. I think I may go buy some bronze statues once I get back to school, to achieve perfect sound ;-P

Alan UK 03-19-00 08:15 PM

Ok...the results are in....

The test was carried out as follows:

A friend and I watched one scene from 5 movies.

Prince of Egypt
Armageddon
SPR (DTS)
Heat
The Matrix

Three cables were tried...one of a 20 pair...a 35 optical cable...and a 50 cable.

We went out while my son swapped the cables and we listened to each without changing anything else.

It was incredibly difficult to hear much difference between any of them. The differences were extreemly subtle to the extent that they weren't worth bothering about. I got the good cable in 3 out of the 5 films while my friend got it right twice. I based my choice on one or two little things I heard which I didn't think I heard with other cables and if I thought the bass sounded better.

I dunno...maybe I could have got it right 3 times out of 5 if I had guessed with out hearing anything... http://talk.dvdtalk.com/ubb/smile.gif What are the odds on that?

What do you guys think?
Alan


buzzdalf 03-20-00 12:12 PM

Thank you for conducting the blind test.

I think I'm gonna save my money for some dvd's, and stick with the RS cable.

beejay 03-21-00 02:34 AM

I think that when you go out and buy expensive cables

Your wallet is lighter

So you sit straighter while listening.

Things sound slightly better

lol
http://talk.dvdtalk.com/ubb/smile.gif
Beejay

vwbeetlvr 11-15-00 01:16 AM

bump


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