Spiky

If only I didn't have these large speakers with which I can play clean audio at reference volume.

Sdallnct

I was bored and re-watched the Dave Matthews/Tim Reynolds Concert in BD. I was watching and thinking how incredibly good the quality was.

But then I thought of you guys and your new fancy 1080p crap...aghhh....

kvrdave

Numanoid told me long ago that I would notice the difference going from 720 to 1080, and it is pretty amazing. I think the upgrade in contrast is likely equally important.

I am amazed at the brightness of the LG. If I go into the man room because I can't sleep, I turn it on, and I have to cover my eyes initially because of the brightness. And I have the lamp on low, and the mode on Cinema instead of a brighter mode.

I use a rowing machine that hooks into the computer and you have a program on the screen. I turn on a lamp at the back of the room so that I can see the small non-backlit lcd readout on the rowing machine. With the new projector I can barely read that lcd readout because the light coming off the screen is so damn bright.

Man, if anyone ever wanted to try out a pj in a room that gets a fair amount of ambient light, this would be the one to do.

Sdallnct

I typically don't have problems with brightness so long as the light is not hitting the screen itself.

But yea, I agree...even when I went it 720p from the X1, it was the contrast, richness of color and depth that I noticed as much as resolution.

But yea...I've got a new pj on my short list when I get my bonus in March/April.

Spiky

Ain't peer pressure a bitch!

And yes, the contrast is what I am loving the most. The three dimensional picture is impressive, and i'd have to put that down to color and contrast capability. That's even with 720p sources.

Joe Schmoe

Here's a review on my Panasonic PT-AE7000U pj, which I've used for roughly 3 weeks now...

2D - No complaints. Happy with 2D movies. The picture even looks good with some ambient light in the room (although I typically watch movies in total darkness).

3D - Where do I begin? The picture is darker than I expected despite this pj using 240hz, which, if I undertand it correctly, is supposed to make the picture brighter because the shutters are open more than with 120hz systems. Granted, I could have bought a pj that outputs more lumens, such as the Epson 5010, but the Panasonic has a much higher contrast ratio. I also could have bought a screen with higher gain, but I undertand that can make hot spots appear while viewing 2D material. And of course, if my pj were closer to the screen, perhaps the 3D image would be a bit brighter. By increasing the brightness, contrast and colors a bit on the pj, I was able to improve the picture quality somewhat, but not as much as I would have liked. 16:9 3D movies seemed brighter than 2.35:1 3D movies and were easier to bear. Perhaps those black bars in 2.35:1 movies added to the picture's overall dimness. In time, I'll get used to the brightness level...

However, I'll never get used to the crosstalk since I never experienced it on my DLP 3D TV. I probably should have gone with the comparable Mitsubishi pj since it uses DLP technology and most likely doesn't suffer from crosstalk. The interesting thing is, I don't see any crosstalk when watching live-action films like Avatar and Transformers: Dark of the Moon; but I see plenty of it while watching computer animated films like Tangled, Despicable Me, Megamind and Puss in Boots. The pj has a tool where you can adjust the parallax. The results are disappoiting because all it does is elliminate crosstalk in the foreground and create crosstalk in the background (or vice versa).

Then there's the disappointig 2D to 3D conversion feature. I read in a professional review that this pj was better at conversion than the comparable Mitsubishi and Epson units. This feature is a complete waste of money IMHO. I tried it with several scenes from Star Wars: A New Hope. There are 5 modes, each one offering either or more or less distance between the doubled images of each onscreen object. None of them were effective at creating depth within the scene or causing an object to pop off the screen. The only time I saw any depth was when I brought up the pj's or PS3's on-screen menu: the menus appeared to hover over the movie scene. Big whoop.

I had to wait 3 weeks for ProjectorPeople to finally get a pair of the large size 3rd generation Panasonic 3D glasses in stock, so I was very eager to try them by the time I finally had them in hand. Needless to say, all that anticipation was met with a lot of disappointment. On the plus side, the glasses are the lightest and most stylish 3D glasses I've ever worn. You can quickly charge the glasses in 2 minutes for a run time of 3 hours, which could come in handy if the charge dies in the middle of a movie. A full charge takes 30 minutes and gives you a run time of 25 hours. However, once the battery dies for good you have to throw away the glasses, which is a ridiculous concept given how expensive they are.

Update: I've had this pj for 11 months now. It still works fine, but now when I look for crosstalk I can easily spot it in live-action films (even in "Avatar"), not just computer animated films. It's not so bad that it's unbearable. In fact, I recently showed some 3D clips to friends and none of them noticed the crosstalk even though I knew it was present. (I think they were just wowed by the whole big screen 3D experience since none of them have a pj or 3D TV.) I guess I just know where to look for it now (mostly with foreground objects). It seems the more an object pops out of the screen, the more likely I'll see crosstalk associated with it. The glasses can be set to Dark, Normal and Light mode. I prefer Light mode because it makes the picture seem brighter, but it also makes crosstalk more obvious. For that reason, I've quit using Light mode and started using Normal.

Spiky

Well, I won't bore everyone with my opinions on 3D, again. They are still hanging around here.

Sounds like film 3D and video 3D are different, and the 7000 is only working well with film. But I'm not an expert.

mattysemo247

Kvrdave & Spiky, how is the CF181D doing? Figured since you guys have been using it for the past couple months you would have some pros and cons that you have experienced by now. I’m still toying with the idea of moving my old DLP set upstairs and picking one of these up. It would be my first ever projector but I think I have the set up to make it work. And it looks like the deal at ProjectorPeople is still going on. Thoughts and/or recommendations?

kvrdave

Easily the best projector I have owned.

PROS: Incredibly bright. Very quiet. Very sharp picture. Lots of inputs. Sleep function.
CONS: Very large. Relatively heavy. Only has vertical lens shift.

It really is bright. Even with some ambient light, this is super bright. I've fallen asleep on the couch and turned it back on (has a sleep function, which is nice), and I have to hide my eyes for a long time. I can watch it just fine with the lights on in the back of the room, which are two sets of 2 40 watt fluorescent tubes, and a smaller lamp. I've never been able to do that before. And I do that with the projector on its lowest setting. The brightest is just too freaking bright.

The 1080 picture is incredible. But a word about the switch from 720 to 1080. When I first got this, I noticed jutter on certain things. I did some searching and there seems to be jutter on pretty much all 1080 projectors (at least under $7,500). I didn't get it all the time, but I noticed it. It bothered me. The Panny 7000 has it, they all have it (according to what I read), so I put up with it. I don't know what changed, but I don't see it anymore. Maybe it is something you get use to and so you don't see much talk about it, but I did notice it initially.

It's got more inputs that I would ever use. Computer, 2 HDMI, component, composite, S-Video, etc. I only use one HDMI which is from my receiver, and my HDMI components go to the receiver. The inputs are overkill for me.

It is over 20 lbs, where my last one was 7.5 lbs. On a shelf will be no problem. I have it mounted to the ceiling. Not a problem for me because I had already put a brace between the rafters and purchased a heavier mount. My last one had horizontal lens shift as well as vertical. That was important because it had an offset lens. This on has the lens dead center, so I didn't need any horizontal shift. But you may need to plan ahead for that.

I don't have much to say about the remote because I use a harmony. And all I really do is just turn it on and don't mess with the settings, and there are plenty. But this has a sleep function, and that is great for me. When I'm home alone, I live in the manroom, and set this when I feel sleepy. I probably put 500 extra hours on my old projector because I fell asleep with it on. Many won't care about this, but it is good for me.

So would I buy it again? Yeah, in a heartbeat. For the price I can't imagine there is a better value. The upgrade in resolution and sharpness makes a huge difference. The bulb has a normal lifespan despite being super bright and the cost for replacement lamps is in the normal range. Important to me because I don't just watch movies on this, I watch everything. Mine is likely on 30 hours a week.

Anyway, very happy and would easily recommend it.

Spiky

Ditto. Basically, everything is exactly the same for me, except I do use more inputs. A couple of my thoughts....

The weight/size cons are over, since it is already installed. Mine is in the basement, and I can get some rocking from people walking overhead. It is more pronounced with the CF181, due to its weight. Although, this is probably partly because of the new mount, too. I may try a different one sometime.

I also use sleep, for the same reason, I would think this a very popular feature on any projection tech with a definite end-of-life in sight for the lamp. It has auto-sleep, too. Which I haven't really used yet, but may be useful for more protection. Like if my kids turn it on and forget it. I wish my receiver had as many sleep choices, it only goes to 90 minutes. I'd like to put both devices on 120 minutes and throw in a movie.

For most viewing, I now have a light on so we can do other things. For dark movies, I still like the room dark.

The scaler is obviously better in this than in the AE900, which was never anything too special. Netflix or other NTSC sources are clearly better, even with the greater resolution.

kvrdave,
What do you mean by jutter? I've noticed different issues/artifacts with this than with the AE900, but haven't really considered it all, yet. Mostly it is a superior picture in every way I can imagine.

kvrdave

Ah, the sleep is not an issue for me. The wife and kids are not allowed in the manroom without supervision.

The jutter I saw would be like watching a random frame dropped out. "Stutter" may be a better term. Jerky? Not a pixelation thing, though. Skippy? Oddly enough, I wouldn't see it in sports shows, etc., but tended to in regular tv drama in slower area. All formats, didn't seem to matter.

Like I said, I only noticed it in the first few days, and I may have been over sensitive to it. Based on what I read, most don't see it. I never saw rainbows in DLP, but it may be similar, except that this went away for me. Only reason I bring it up is so that if someone gets a 1080 projector and sees this, they will know they aren't alone and that (for me, at least) it went away quickly.

Spiky

Yeah, mine aren't allowed to use it either. (wife doesn't want to, actually) But does that ever actually stop them?

IDK about stuttering or whatever. I get that so often for other reasons it would be hard to specify the PJ. Even the Tivo does it occasionally. Everything is basically playback from a hard drive these days, whether in your DVR, HTPC, or from a TV station's storage, and sometimes the data stream stutters. I'd have to compare to DVD/BD, where it shouldn't happen (with good equipment). But like I said, I haven't spent too much time worrying about that. I guess that means I haven't seen it where I thought it was the PJ.

mattysemo247

Thanks for the input guys. It sounds like the only issue might be the lens shift, but I may be able to make it work either way. Without the horizontal lens shift, an adjustable (height) mount should take care of most of that, right?

kvrdave

The shift will go up and down, but not sideways. So long as you are set up centered to the screen, you can shift the picture down just fine, so an adjustable mount (height) won't be needed. You'd need to adjust side to side.

I think they didn't include that because most people only need to adjust up and down.

Sdallnct

If you look at my screen in the link at my signature, you will notice it is ever so slightly off center between the doors. I mounted the screen with two long (about 6") French cleats. This allowed me to move the screen side to side to get it just perfect if I had "missed it" when mounting the projector. Which I did just a touch.

But in general, YES! If you can physically raise or lower the projector or screen or physically move the projector side to side or the screen, you are doing the same thing as lens shift. Hence why I think it a nice feature, I think rarely a deal breaker.

Sdallnct

Son called as working out of town. Sounds like bulb blew in my HD70. So will have to do something. Looks like OEM bulbs go about $250. Looks like the HD20 is about $900. But really like the looks of the MIT.

Non-OEM bulbs are bout half the price. Anyone have experience with those?

pelenor

I have an optoma HD65 and it's only a 720P projector but the funny thing about the Optomas is that they will play Blu rays in 1080P 24frames! and I do use it to play 3d blu rays from my HTPC and it looks outstanding. I've had my optoma for 3 years and have only used about 1000 hrs and it still is going strong.So I wouldn't count them out just yet but also, BenQ is releasing http://www.benq.us/product/projector/w1070 which is a 3d, 1080P projector with day and night modes for under $1000 dollars. Not sure how long you might want to wait to replace the projector but the CES show starts this week and I'm sure they'll have some great projectors to show.

Spiky

Recent discussion:
http://forum.dvdtalk.com/dvd-home-th...uggestion.html

Sdallnct

Thanks. I really shouldn't be spending a lot now (never is the right time). But then, might be time for an overall man cve upgrade....still using very crappy couch as well....

Sdallnct

Looks like Panny has a LCD for a little over a grand. Time to switch to LCD?

http://www.projectorreviews.com/pana...0u/summary.php

Tho the HD20 is still available for $800 which just seems like a steal,

http://www.amazon.com/Optoma-HD20-De.../dp/B002G0CWSU

I had settled in the Mit at about $1,200, but I've read some complaints about the fan noise.

http://www.amazon.com/Mitsubishi-HC4...eywords=Hc4000

Any other suggestions for low cost 1080p projectors? Obviously if I'm getting one (as opposed to just a new bulb for my HD70), I'd like to get in time for SB

Edit,

Looks like overall the Panny is a better pj than other entry level pj's.

http://www.projectorreviews.com/pana...ompetitors.php

It is also noisy, but within a db of my current pj, which has never been an issue. Always like DLP, but this Panny is brighter and should make for easy placement (can likely use my existing home made mount in its current place).

Anyone tell my why they keep referring this as a "family room" pj? They do say this can be used in a dedicated HT room, but I guess I never heard the term before or what would make it so. The brightness?

Also I found this when looking for a bulb.

http://www.apexlamps.com/index.php?r...FQioPAod0iAApQ

I had decided against non-OEM bulb, but this is half of what most people are charging for an OEM bulb. This says OEM bulb in a generic housing?

Spiky

"Family room" is a reference to brightness, in all reviews I've seen. Getting up into the 2000 lumens range allows for a lot more lighting options, like you might want in a family room, I guess. I often have a light on, now, with the LG that we discussed near the beginning of this thread. And I don't even leave Cinema mode. That AR100 is seriously bright. I made some comments in post 6 of this thread when I was researching it myself, so I won't bother repeating them. It is very possible I would have ended up with it if the LCoS model hadn't turned up in the same price range.

Non-OEM bulbs are usually half of OEM price. Isn't that the pricing you were seeing a couple days ago, when you "decided against non-OEM bulb"?

Sdallnct

Thanks, ill look back. Assuming I go new pj, i think I've settled on that Panny. I don't really need the brightness, but as long as it doesn't effect the image quality, certainly no harm.

I notice more reviews saying the Panny is street price of $999. I can't find it that low. Suggestions?

Well originally, I went to Amazon as that is where I bought mt last bulb (OEM). But they only had an obviously cheap Chinese bulb. And you guys talked me out of OEM.

But yesterday (or the day before), I found that site that said it was an OEM bulb but with a generic housing. Which I had not seen. It was a few more $ than the Amazon price

chipmac

You need to be careful of those generic housing too. The last generic I bought had a plastic tab on it that prevented it from fitting into the PJ the right way. After cutting it off to make it fit I was able to get the lamp in but the lamp sucked so bad I returned it to Amazon anyway. The lamp was dim, off color and flickered so bad that even for a generic it had to be defective.

Spiky

2 come to mind.
1) Try local, you could discuss to get a deal. If anyone still has them.
2) Don't believe everything you read on the internet.
(yes, I know, irony)

Sdallnct

Damn. Can't seem to find that Panny for less than $1,300 shipped. The HD20 is shipping for $800. That is a pretty big difference for that price range. I know the Panny could be considered in a different class, but it should be for that price difference.

Aghhh...

Looks like the Panny has a shorter bulb life and more expensive bulb. But lots brighter, easier placement.

HD20 cheaper, longer lasting bulb. Cheaper to start. But loud.

Image quality. Tough call from what I can read. I've only used DLP for projectors. And consider my current HD70 offered a better pic than the two LCD TV's we have.