dvdsteve2000

I was checking out your HT link, and I have a couple questions(I'm just kind of a plug-n-play guy):

A/V Receiver: Sony STR-DB930 - I penned the 10-3-99 review.
Amplifier: Harman Kardon PA5800 5-channel 80W/ch amplifier - I penned the 2-23-00 review.
AC-3 RF Demodulator: Yamaha APD-1

How do you go about the Receiver/and Amp combination? I'm looking to get more power. My receiver is 100W/channel, but I'm looking for more. What is the process with rigging an amp with a receiver? ...and what is the RF-Demodulator? It sounds like something Marvin the Martian would use.

This is all probably SO obvious to you, but I never delved into HT that much.

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Patman

Ahhh...where do I start?

If you have a receiver that also has preamp outputs (if it's a 5.1 DD/dts receiver, it'll have 5 outputs for the front left/center/right and rear left/right channels and one or two outputs for the LFE - low frequency effect/Bass), they you can then hook up the outputs to an external amp and then connect the speakers to that amp's outputs.

The preamp outputs' volume/signal level is controlled by the receiver's main volume control, so there's nothing you really need to do on the external amp.

If your receiver doesn't have preamp outputs, you're stuck with what you have. End of story. If you told us what receiver you have, we could offer more ideass.

I now am not using the external amp to power my front speakers, rather, I'm using it to drive my new subwoofer's 2 drivers. I need a larger amp to be able to take advantage of my new subwoofer's capabilities.

Also, you need to find out if your receiver's amp is putting out 100W at 20-20KHz or just at 1KHz. If the former, then I'm not really sure what's your problem with volume levels unless you have horribly inefficient speakers. If it's the latter, then you need to find a receiver whose power rating is from 20-20KHz because most receivers with power ratings from 1KHz, they are most like a 60W receiver at the full audio spectrum of 20-20KHz. And pay attention to the THD of the amplifier section, under 0.1% is okay, but lower is better (THD = Total Harmonic Distortion).

Doubling the power only nets you a 3dB increase in the SPL (sound pressure level) in the overall volume of the output. You rarely go beyond 64W in most listening environments.
But for the big boom scenes, it's the "reserve" of an amp (or commonly referred to as the headroom of the amp) to give you that punch you need to faithfully reproduce the volume level while not having the amp run out of current to power the speakers to put out the transient high peaks of volume.

The AC-3 Demodulator is only used for playing the Dolby Digital 5.1 (AC-3) audio tracks from an AC-3 encoded Laser Disc. If you only have DVDs, don't worry about it.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if this thread gets moved to the DVD Hardware section.


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bfrank

Without outputs the signal could be padded down to low level but this would not be a good direction.

I cant think of why you need more power. Let us know about your equipment.

dvdsteve2000

OK, this is a scan of the specs for my receiver-



click for large view.



[This message has been edited by dvdsteve2000 (edited August 06, 2000).]

dvdsteve2000

I do have 5.1 output, with a single "RCA" for a sub.

dvdsteve2000

Connections page.
click to enlarge.



[This message has been edited by dvdsteve2000 (edited August 06, 2000).]

Patman

I can't read the scans, it'd help if you provided us with the make and model of your receiver. I gave up mind reading a long time ago.


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Deftones

dvdsteve, it looks as though you do have the 5.1 outputs.

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dvdsteve2000

Patman,

It's an AIWA AV-D50. It is a 5.1 receiver. I listen to dvd's in 5.1, but I'm looking for more power.

Did you click on the scans for a larger view? They're 1100 pixels X 1100 pixels.

Patman

Steve, I can't see your larger scans (I usually have to omit the ".orig.jpg" from the end of your link to see the file, and then it's a small looking file).

I think you'd be better off buying another receiver because a good amp will cost just as much if not more (over $300). I heartily recommend the Sony DB940 ($400), the Onkyo 575X, the Yamaha 595a/795a, the Denon 2800. These might be found in the $500 range.

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dvdsteve2000

Patman,

OK, but why are you running an amplifier with a receiver? Doesn't your receiver have alot of power? I just didn't know you could run a receiver of of an amp. I have an old Integrated amp(doesn't have DD or even surround), and thought about trying to run the power from my receiver through that, but didn't think I could.

...I guess I just don't understand!

4KRG

dvdsteve2000

From lookig at your pic, you do NOT have outputs on your receiver to go directly to an external power amp like Patman

(here is the link to Patman's http://www.geocities.com/patman30096...r/930rear.jpg)

Notice he has something on the top right rear of his unit labeled PRE-OUT, he can connect these to external amps and use his receiver as a pre-amp only.

On yours, you only hace 5.1 INPUTS (Deftones17 - look again). You will need something called a LINE OUTPUT CONVERTER for each channel. This converter will take speaker level output and reduce it to line level output so you can then feed it into external amps. I would only use this as a temporary solution while you find money to finance a real pre-amp. These 'converters' do add a little noise.

Crutchfield use to sell them, I could not find one on their page anymore (only one for a car, here it is so you get an idea http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/S-yJ4ftLAPIai/ProdView.asp?s=0&c=0&g=0&I=101PL2&o= &a=)

edited to say - I agree with Patman, you would be better off with a new receiver. Part of your problem is the watt rating on your AIWA AV-D50 is a bit off. You are not seeing a true 100+ watts, maybe 50 at best. Also, Patman's receiver has this extra function built-in, that is why you are confused.

[This message has been edited by 4KRG (edited August 06, 2000).]

dvdsteve2000

Thanks 4KRG!

That sheds a little more light on things! How can you tell I'm only getting 50+ watts, when the spec chart list them at 120, etc...

I'm not doubting you, I'm just trying to understand.

Patman

quote:<HR>Originally posted by dvdsteve2000:
Patman,

OK, but why are you running an amplifier with a receiver? Doesn't your receiver have alot of power? I just didn't know you could run a receiver of of an amp. I have an old Integrated amp(doesn't have DD or even surround), and thought about trying to run the power from my receiver through that, but didn't think I could.

...I guess I just don't understand! <HR>

Don't be discouraged. I just happened to have an external 5-channel amp, and I was just using it to see if there was that much difference between a Harman Kardon amp and the Sony receiver's amp. There's not that much in my mind. Plus, now I'm using that HK amp to power my subwoofer, and am using the amp from my Sony receiver now.

When I was looking for a receiver, I did look for a model that provided 5.1 preOUTS just in case I wanted to add a more power amp later, and use the Sony receiver only as a preamp (doing all the signal procession, but provide no amplification to the speakers).

If you did want to use your integrated amp for 2-channel stereo, you could ty to connect your tape output from your Aiwa receiver and connect it to the integrated amp's tape inputs, and hook up your speakers to the integrated amp. The problem is that your DD 5.1 sound will be not calibrated, and you'll have to balance the sound in 2 different places. But I don't think your tape output will output DD 5.1 left/right channel signal though.



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dvdsteve2000

Thanks Patman!!

4KRG

quote:<HR>Originally posted by dvdsteve2000:
Thanks 4KRG!

That sheds a little more light on things! How can you tell I'm only getting 50+ watts, when the spec chart list them at 120, etc...

I'm not doubting you, I'm just trying to understand. <HR>

Honestly, I pulled the 50 number out of my arse.

I just know MANY companies (Sony included, sorry Patman ) tend to inflate their watt rating so they look powerful. Watts actually have very LITTLE to do with loud sound. My separate amps are made by Rotel and only have a 200W per channel rating. I have B&W speakers, which are not effcient at all, and my system can be heard blocks away. It will get so loud your ears hurt standing in the theater room. The big deal is, these amps are very high current. I have actually thrown the circuit breaker because of them

The best receiver I have heard is the Dennon AVR 5700 (or 5800 something like that) it has a thump for $2000 and IMHO the best bang for the buck if you like receivers. It is rated at 140W per channel, but way louder then a $400 receiver rated at 100W or 120W.

Just to continue my babble, I have heard a 10W tube amp that could shake a house. $$$ = Power, that is the only formula you need to know

Patman

4KRG, the inflated power ratings almost always occur when they state the power at 1KHz, and not 20-20KHz. The DB series from Sony has a better and not-so-inflated power rating according to independent testing, than their not-so-good DE (consumer edition, Circuit City, Best Buy, etc) series of receivers.

We are on the cusp of another round of receivers that will include DD EX 6.1 and dts ES 6.1 decoding, so here we go again!


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Blade

Moving to the DVD and Home Theater Hardware forum.

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Patman

Steve, I was able to read the scans of the manual now. What Aiwa did was a bastardly thing to do: they stated the power rating at a THD of 0.9%, that's about 10 times more than anything "acceptable". The closest thing to the truth is that they state the THD of 0.08% (85W at 1KHz for 2 channels). So you're looking at a 50W/ch at 0.08% THD for 20-20KHz full frequency bandwidth power. If I see a 1KHz power rating, I multiply that power rating by 0.6 as an estimate of the full spectrum power rating for that amp section. That's why you think you need more power, and you're probably right. But the only cure is to upgrade your receiver.


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