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3D Format Skepticism a Double-Standard?

Old 02-19-10, 04:58 PM
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3D Format Skepticism a Double-Standard?

It's odd reading about the resistance from many Blu-ray owners about the new 3D TVs that are now on the horizon.

Comments such as "It's too soon!", "It's a gimmick" or "I just heavily invested in Blu-ray" seems to be the consensus. As valid as these comments are, many of the folks who were so gung-ho about Blu-ray questioned why many DVD owners were so hesitant to make the switch are now singing the same song about the upcoming 3D format and the extra costs of upgrading.

Just like the shift to Blu-ray, it will once again require new 3D TVs, new 3D Blu-ray players.

I guess "you don't have to buy it" , "no one's forcing you" and "Sorry, but technology is always moving forward" arguments will go around once again!

Last edited by orangerunner; 02-19-10 at 05:01 PM.
Old 02-19-10, 05:13 PM
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Re: 3D Format Skepticism a Double-Standard?

Originally Posted by orangerunner View Post
It's odd reading about the resistance from many Blu-ray owners about the new 3D TVs that are now on the horizon.

Comments such as "It's too soon!", "It's a gimmick" or "I just heavily invested in Blu-ray" seems to be the consensus. As valid as these comments are, many of the folks who were so gung-ho about Blu-ray questioned why many DVD owners were so hesitant to make the switch are now singing the same song about the upcoming 3D format and the extra costs of upgrading.

Just like the shift to Blu-ray, it will once again require new 3D TVs, new 3D Blu-ray players.

I guess "you don't have to buy it" , "no one's forcing you" and "Sorry, but technology is always moving forward" arguments will go around once again!
So, why post this here?

TLK
Old 02-19-10, 06:00 PM
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Re: 3D Format Skepticism a Double-Standard?

Originally Posted by orangerunner View Post
It's odd reading about the resistance from many Blu-ray owners about the new 3D TVs that are now on the horizon.

Comments such as "It's too soon!", "It's a gimmick" or "I just heavily invested in Blu-ray" seems to be the consensus. As valid as these comments are, many of the folks who were so gung-ho about Blu-ray questioned why many DVD owners were so hesitant to make the switch are now singing the same song about the upcoming 3D format and the extra costs of upgrading.

Just like the shift to Blu-ray, it will once again require new 3D TVs, new 3D Blu-ray players.

I guess "you don't have to buy it" , "no one's forcing you" and "Sorry, but technology is always moving forward" arguments will go around once again!
Yes and no.

To go Blu-ray you simply need a Blu-ray player. And unless you need it to make you dinner and walk your dog, they can be had for $100 or less. Hell, be picky and say a name brand and were lookin' at $130. Since retail stores no longer sell 'tube' TVs, anyone who buys a new TV is Blu-ray ready. And this has been the case for maybe 5-6 years as LCD/Plasma's have been taking over and 'tubes' disappeared. DVD had 8-9 years on the market before HD DVD/Blu-ray came around. Blu-ray had (will have) 4 years before 3D. Pretty big difference.

Were in a little thing called a recession. It;s tough for Blu-ray to stand by itself, but now they want to push another format on us. All those BD players won't play the 3D Discs. You will need a new receiver. A new TV. Glasses. That's a pretty big investment for a format with an unclear future. Just about every movie made can benefit from Blu-ray. Silent films. Black and White. Color. And only a handful (currently maybe 25?) films can benefit from BD 3D. Sure, there will be more films in 3D, but how many to really push people into buying several new things so they can watch Alice in Wonderland 3D or Harry Potter 7 3D?

Blu-ray is finally becoming mainstream and accepted into stores. I don't want to see more customers confused thinking they have to buy all this 3D gear to enjoy Blu-ray.
Old 02-19-10, 06:37 PM
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Re: 3D Format Skepticism a Double-Standard?

3D is a cheesy gimmick which is destined to fail (at least in this incarnation), unlike HD which actually adds value to the experience.
Old 02-19-10, 06:41 PM
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Re: 3D Format Skepticism a Double-Standard?

I balk at the 3-D home format because I watch so many classic films. I'm not going to upgrade to 3-D when 99.9% of my viewing is of films shot in 2-D. Just as I am an OAR purist, I am also a "Dimension" purist. When a 3-D version of Top Gun or American in Paris or Gold Diggers of '33 or The Red Shoes comes out I'm not going to watch it. An investment in home 3-D would be purely for the opportunity to watch films that have come out in the last 3 years and future films. I have a hard time pulling the trigger on a new TV, new player, etc just so I can watch fucking Coriline, Monster vs. Aliens, and Avatar when my current set-up allows me to watch hundreds of thousands of titles, in pristine quality, in a format as close to theatrical exhibition as possible.

The other issue that hasn't been addressed is that home viewing often involves a lot of people. My HT seats 8 people. So now I've got to buy 8 sets of 3-D glasses?! I'm not wild about that.

Thirdly, I'm not historically ignorant enough to have forgotten that this is not the first 3-D boom. 3D was huge in 1953 and 1954. Even Hitchcock made a 3-D film! But it died. This current boom of theatrical 3-D could still be a fad. Excuse me for not wanting to bring the technology into my home.

Lastly, if I could get It Came From Outer Space, Wax Museum, and Creature from the Black Lagoon in 3-D at home I might adapt, but there will probably be a quadruple dip of Alice in Wonderland before any studio kickstarts their asses into releasing any classic 3-D fare.

Last edited by Mabuse; 02-19-10 at 06:44 PM.
Old 02-19-10, 06:41 PM
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Re: 3D Format Skepticism a Double-Standard?

Originally Posted by orangerunner View Post
many of the folks who were so gung-ho about Blu-ray questioned why many DVD owners were so hesitant to make the switch are now singing the same song about the upcoming 3D format and the extra costs of upgrading.

Just like the shift to Blu-ray!
It is nothing like the shift to Blu-Ray and the comparisons make no sense.

The main difference is that I (& some here) were "gung-ho" to go Blu-Ray (& still are) because it benefits every format of movie, especially older films (even though most here don't watch moves pre-1980). Plus Blu-Ray isn't just a purely visual upgrade format the way 3-D is, it offers a significant audio upgrade. The 3-D format is a niche medium that doesn't benefit older films nor even most modern films. To buy more equipment than it ever took to go Blu-Ray for a select few films and genres is not even close to being worth the upgrade.
Old 02-19-10, 07:18 PM
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Re: 3D Format Skepticism a Double-Standard?

I'm interested, but the monetary investment for a handful of movies makes no sense at this time.
Old 02-19-10, 07:31 PM
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Re: 3D Format Skepticism a Double-Standard?

Money has never been an object, I'm loaded. I'll be 3D ready on day one
Old 02-19-10, 07:33 PM
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Re: 3D Format Skepticism a Double-Standard?

Originally Posted by LosingMyMind View Post
Money has never been an object, I'm loaded. I'll be 3D ready on day one
Cool! Send me some.
Old 02-19-10, 07:43 PM
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Re: 3D Format Skepticism a Double-Standard?

I am 100% perfectly happy sticking with my SD/ 2D Dvd's!
Old 02-19-10, 08:11 PM
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Re: 3D Format Skepticism a Double-Standard?

Wow, it really is starting already. My favorite so far has been how BR was so much cheaper to migrate to than 3D will be. Ummm....not for those of us with old rear projection displays and puny 5.1 receivers. The upgrade costs seem about the same.

All that being said, I think the studios are displaying an amazing amount of ignorance if they truly believe home 3D will somehow save their video sales. If BR isn't getting it done, then they really need to come up with a better idea, because home 3D is dead in the water. The mere fact that you will still have to wear glasses of some type just to watch your programming is going to turn people off right out of the gate.
Old 02-19-10, 08:26 PM
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Re: 3D Format Skepticism a Double-Standard?

Originally Posted by Sessa17 View Post
It is nothing like the shift to Blu-Ray and the comparisons make no sense.

The main difference is that I (& some here) were "gung-ho" to go Blu-Ray (& still are) because it benefits every format of movie, especially older films (even though most here don't watch moves pre-1980). Plus Blu-Ray isn't just a purely visual upgrade format the way 3-D is, it offers a significant audio upgrade. The 3-D format is a niche medium that doesn't benefit older films nor even most modern films. To buy more equipment than it ever took to go Blu-Ray for a select few films and genres is not even close to being worth the upgrade.
As far as having to upgrade everything it's certainly comparable. When most people bought into Blu-ray they had to retire their tube TV probably before its time or upgrade from their 720p set as well as up-grading to 7.1 receiver to take advantage of the better sound.

Though I know you don't "have to" with Blu-ray, there's absolutely no choice with 3D. You're in 100% or don't bother.

I guess revamping a 2D film in 3D will be seen by some as a major upgrade and will benefit. If it's done right, I suppose there is a greater sense of value to go from DVD to Blu-ray 3D than it would be to go from Blu-ray to Blu-ray 3D.

I agree titles will be few and far between unless there is a really dramatic shift and we start seeing virtually every holiday hit movie in 3D.

But I think with 3D on the horizon, this will hurt Blu-ray sales. Even if it eventually becomes this decades' failed version of colorizing B&W films in the 80s, the masses will tend to hesitate with Blu-ray knowing 3D is coming.

From what I've heard the TV 3D is quite remarkable and even if movies are not the driving force I feel 3D video games will be.

Last edited by orangerunner; 02-19-10 at 09:18 PM.
Old 02-19-10, 08:41 PM
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Re: 3D Format Skepticism a Double-Standard?

I hope it does become a standard but I won't be investing in it now. I'd only do it as I replace a TV or if there's some device I could buy to make my TV compliant. I'm of the opinion that just because I don't care for a technology means I want it to fail. Other things I may like could grow from that technology.
Old 02-20-10, 04:33 AM
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Re: 3D Format Skepticism a Double-Standard?

Originally Posted by orangerunner View Post
It's odd reading about the resistance from many Blu-ray owners about the new 3D TVs that are now on the horizon.

Comments such as "It's too soon!", "It's a gimmick" or "I just heavily invested in Blu-ray" seems to be the consensus. As valid as these comments are, many of the folks who were so gung-ho about Blu-ray questioned why many DVD owners were so hesitant to make the switch are now singing the same song about the upcoming 3D format and the extra costs of upgrading.
The reluctance probably has to do with the fact that 3D has had a long and less than stellar history.

The problem I'm seeing with 3D in this post-Avatar world, is that it seems like a lot of people are doing 3D "because they can" and not "because they should".
Old 02-20-10, 05:03 AM
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Re: 3D Format Skepticism a Double-Standard?

Originally Posted by GizmoDVD View Post
And unless you need it to make you dinner and walk your dog, they can be had for $100 or less. Hell, be picky and say a name brand and were lookin' at $130.

Where are you finding them at these prices? Last time I saw a price for under $100 for one was at wallyworld during black friday. And even though it was a name brand, it was a bottom of the barrel model. Hence why I passed on getting it.
Old 02-20-10, 05:21 AM
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Re: 3D Format Skepticism a Double-Standard?

Originally Posted by orangerunner View Post
As far as having to upgrade everything it's certainly comparable. When most people bought into Blu-ray they had to retire their tube TV probably before its time
I doubt it. Most people who were early adopters of Blu-ray had already made the leap to HDTV. People who hadn't bought an HDTV yet probably aren't interested in Blu-ray.
or upgrade from their 720p set
You can enjoy Blu-ray just fine with a 720p set. I suspect you know that already, because I'm pretty sure you've tried to use the argument in your countless anti-Blu-ray posts over the last year or two.
as well as up-grading to 7.1 receiver to take advantage of the better sound.
Again, wrong. My 5.1 receiver is taking advantage of the better sound just fine, thanks to my Blu-ray player's on-board audio conversion and analog connections. The additional two channels are no big deal, but the lossless audio is sweet.

But I think with 3D on the horizon, this will hurt Blu-ray sales.
You realize, of course, that the 3D movies have to get to your TV somehow, and that medium is going to be Blu-ray, right?
Old 02-20-10, 10:19 AM
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Re: 3D Format Skepticism a Double-Standard?

What happens if you have friends over to watch movies? Are you going to have extra pairs of glasses just in case? How many will you need for a Super Bowl party? Or are we going to expect people to go around like a member of Biff's gang in Back to the Future?

Old 02-20-10, 12:01 PM
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Re: 3D Format Skepticism a Double-Standard?

Originally Posted by Skyclad01 View Post
Where are you finding them at these prices? Last time I saw a price for under $100 for one was at wallyworld during black friday. And even though it was a name brand, it was a bottom of the barrel model. Hence why I passed on getting it.
Best Buy.

Insignia is $100 right now I think and it's essentially a LG/Samsung mix of player and does Netflix.
Old 02-20-10, 12:59 PM
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Re: 3D Format Skepticism a Double-Standard?

Originally Posted by Mr. Salty View Post
You realize, of course, that the 3D movies have to get to your TV somehow, and that medium is going to be Blu-ray, right?
If the 3D format of choice allows standard Blu-ray discs to play on the special 3D players and 3D TVs, then yes it will probably restore the consumer's confidence in the longevity of the format.

If not it will certainly cause people to hesitate to buy standard Blu-ray. It's not anti-Blu, it's just pro-reality.
Old 02-20-10, 02:57 PM
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Re: 3D Format Skepticism a Double-Standard?

Originally Posted by orangerunner View Post
If the 3D format of choice allows standard Blu-ray discs to play on the special 3D players and 3D TVs, then yes it will probably restore the consumer's confidence in the longevity of the format.

If not it will certainly cause people to hesitate to buy standard Blu-ray. It's not anti-Blu, it's just pro-reality.
That is a part of the issue. The other part, backwards compatible or not, will be people holding off on disc purchases because the better(?) version is coming. BR hasn't even cracked 3000 titles yet and folks will be holding off. The whole thing just gets silly from there.
Old 02-20-10, 04:29 PM
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Re: 3D Format Skepticism a Double-Standard?

Originally Posted by GizmoDVD View Post
Yes and no.

To go Blu-ray you simply need a Blu-ray player. And unless you need it to make you dinner and walk your dog, they can be had for $100 or less. Hell, be picky and say a name brand and were lookin' at $130. Since retail stores no longer sell 'tube' TVs, anyone who buys a new TV is Blu-ray ready. And this has been the case for maybe 5-6 years as LCD/Plasma's have been taking over and 'tubes' disappeared. DVD had 8-9 years on the market before HD DVD/Blu-ray came around. Blu-ray had (will have) 4 years before 3D. Pretty big difference.

Were in a little thing called a recession. It;s tough for Blu-ray to stand by itself, but now they want to push another format on us. All those BD players won't play the 3D Discs. You will need a new receiver. A new TV. Glasses. That's a pretty big investment for a format with an unclear future. Just about every movie made can benefit from Blu-ray. Silent films. Black and White. Color. And only a handful (currently maybe 25?) films can benefit from BD 3D. Sure, there will be more films in 3D, but how many to really push people into buying several new things so they can watch Alice in Wonderland 3D or Harry Potter 7 3D?

Blu-ray is finally becoming mainstream and accepted into stores. I don't want to see more customers confused thinking they have to buy all this 3D gear to enjoy Blu-ray.
I'd go a step further and say you could get into Blu Ray without having to spend money on a TV set straight off if you wanted, as well. So, sure, you'd be watching the discs in a lower definition, but you could still watch them and get your new TV later on. If you are on a budget, that's a decent way to convert over slowly without breaking the bank. With 3-D technology, you pretty much HAVE to buy everything new all at once. And most folks don't have that kind of cash laying around, and I think people are fools if they buy things like Blu-Ray players and TVs on credit, but you could always go that way if you wanted to.
Old 02-21-10, 08:59 AM
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Re: 3D Format Skepticism a Double-Standard?

I will be upgrading my system late this year or early next year to take full advantage of 3D BDs. I have a 7 year old Pioneer 65" RPTV that I'll replace; probably with the upcoming Visio 72" LCD. I'll also pick up a new 3D capable BD player (maybe a PS3) and retire my current Sylvania (Gold Box Special) to my bedroom. Since I was planning on replacing this equipment anyway, the incremental additional cost will be minimal. 99.5% of the time my current HDTV is on, I'm the only one watching; so a couple of pairs of glasses will be just fine. If I need a couple more, I'll pick'em up. We're talking under 4 grand for all that. I'd like to upgrade my receiver at some point, and I imagine that'll be the point. My current receiver will decode all current BD audio codecs and does have 4 HDMI inputs, so if I pick up a 3D BD player with two HDMI outs as most will have, I'll run one to the receiver for audio and the other to the HDTV for video. The manufacturers are well aware of the receiver upgrade problem and are expected to provide the two HDMI outs just for that reason.

Nuff said......and yes, I'll put off any new BD purchases if I think there'll be a 3D BD down the road.
Old 02-21-10, 09:48 AM
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Re: 3D Format Skepticism a Double-Standard?

Originally Posted by pmreed View Post
I will be upgrading my system late this year or early next year to take full advantage of 3D BDs. I have a 7 year old Pioneer 65" RPTV that I'll replace; probably with the upcoming Visio 72" LCD. I'll also pick up a new 3D capable BD player (maybe a PS3) and retire my current Sylvania (Gold Box Special) to my bedroom. Since I was planning on replacing this equipment anyway, the incremental additional cost will be minimal. 99.5% of the time my current HDTV is on, I'm the only one watching; so a couple of pairs of glasses will be just fine. If I need a couple more, I'll pick'em up. We're talking under 4 grand for all that. I'd like to upgrade my receiver at some point, and I imagine that'll be the point. My current receiver will decode all current BD audio codecs and does have 4 HDMI inputs, so if I pick up a 3D BD player with two HDMI outs as most will have, I'll run one to the receiver for audio and the other to the HDTV for video. The manufacturers are well aware of the receiver upgrade problem and are expected to provide the two HDMI outs just for that reason.

Nuff said......and yes, I'll put off any new BD purchases if I think there'll be a 3D BD down the road.
And then in a month that 4 grand will seem like a waste of money because they will announce that they have a new 3D standard thats much better than the old 3D. They are out of control right now and I'm not buying into anything...my friends feel the same way. 3D won't truly be worth home use for another 5 to 10 years at least. I've always felt 3D is for people with short attention spans and in this day with computer generated actors and 3D gimmicks I wonder if future movies will be worth upgrading anything for. Maybe i'll get another hobby.
Old 02-21-10, 01:51 PM
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Re: 3D Format Skepticism a Double-Standard?

Originally Posted by Litfuel716 View Post
And then in a month that 4 grand will seem like a waste of money because they will announce that they have a new 3D standard thats much better than the old 3D...
Technology is always advancing. If you wait to get the best you'll be on your death bed before you buy anything (and they'll come up with something even better after you die).

You gotta spend your money on something, might as well spend it on something you'll enjoy.
Old 02-21-10, 02:21 PM
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Re: 3D Format Skepticism a Double-Standard?

Originally Posted by calhoun07 View Post
I'd go a step further and say you could get into Blu Ray without having to spend money on a TV set straight off if you wanted, as well. So, sure, you'd be watching the discs in a lower definition, but you could still watch them and get your new TV later on. If you are on a budget, that's a decent way to convert over slowly without breaking the bank. With 3-D technology, you pretty much HAVE to buy everything new all at once. And most folks don't have that kind of cash laying around, and I think people are fools if they buy things like Blu-Ray players and TVs on credit, but you could always go that way if you wanted to.
That's exactly what I did. I knew I couldn't get a Blu-ray Player and an HD TV at the same time because it would be cost prohibitive, so instead I purchased a PS3 when I found one on sale for a reasonable price. Even though I didn't have an HD TV yet I figured I had to get one or the other first because I couldn't get both at once; getting the player first at least allowed me to get titles and watch them as well as play PS3 games while I saved up for a TV.

This 3D technology just doesn't sound all that appealing to me. In theaters the effect ranges from giving more depth to an unnecessary gimmick; either way, the colours are muted and wearing the glasses (if you wear prescription glasses) is a pain. Add to that the fact that you have to buy another new TV and player to take advantage of limited titles makes this sound like a bad idea. Everything can benefit from an upgrade to Blu, but the same cannot be said for 3D.

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