Amator

I've been living with a roommate for the past five years and since he had a nice tv, dvd player, xbox 360, etc., I don't have any of that stuff. In a couple of weeks I'm moving into a 1 bedroom apt, and I'd like to setup a small HT system.

I don't really watch tv, but I watch a lot of dvds, play xbox 360 games(mostly Rock Band these days), and want to have my PC hooked up to the projector/tv and sound system.

I'm prepared to spend $1500 now, and add a few pieces later if necessary.

I want a projector, but I'm not sure if it is a good fit for the space. The living room/dining area part of the apartment is roughly 27' long by 10' wide, but the ceiling is only 7' high. I'm wondering if I could put a projector on top of a 6' bookshelf?

So if you were starting from scratch on a budget system with these room restrictions, what kind of system would you recommend? Do you think a projector is a bad idea?

As mentioned before I really don't watch tv, so do you think I could get away with a budget projector, an xbox 360, and maybe using a bookshelf stereo as speakers for a month or two until I can get a receiver and a pair of fronts, then adding additional speakers and an Xbox Harmony remote.

Oh, here is a crappy layout of the apartment I did in Paint to better illustrate the layout. It's not scaled precisely, but should give you an idea of what I'm working with:



Edit - geez, I didn't know how small the jpg would be. Here is what the text says on the right side: 10 ft from A to B, 27.5 ft from C to B.

Superman07

I'm going to assume you have nothing, even though you didn't mention what type of audio, stand, speakers, etc. you may or may not have.

If it were me...

I'd put the television on the wall backing the bedroom/bathroom. That would give you about 6-8 foot viewing distance. Given that I'd go with a 32"-42" set. I know that's a wide range, but that also gives you some flexibility in price/brands, given that...

I'm assuming you'd have to buy a receiver and speakers as well. You may want to look into a $250-$400 receiver (Harman Kardon 246, Onkyo 605, etc.). I'm sure others will have a few good units to chime in here as well.

You'd need to get some speakers as well. You may want to go with a computer speaker setup (5.1) or a nice dual pair and a sub (for the time being). The Logitech set I'm using for the computer right now is 5.1 and has a audio decoder built into the control moduel as well. This would enable you to switch those over to a dedicated computer set when you're ready to upgrade, but in the meantime you would have 5.1 right now - and it's arguably better than the Home Theater in a Box (HTIB) setups.

If you play your cards right you'll have a nice starter setup for around $1300, which would give you some wiggle room for a stand, cables and other misc items.

Sdallnct

I'll play,

Optima HD70 or Mit 1000U $800
Homemade screen $100
KEF 1005 5.1 Surround speakers $300
HK AVR 147 $270
Mount, cables, etc $50

About $1520, roughly

Or you could sub out the projector for a 42" TV tho price would be about the same unless with you went with and off brand or something. Or you get sub out the H/K for an Onkyo and save a little. Shop monoprice for all your cable needs. If you went with a projector you would likely want to eventually invest in some heavy drapes or blackout drap liners. If you need a DVD player then I'd go with the Toshiba HD-A3 @ $100 or so.

Amator

Ooh, that looks very close to what I was thinking. If I can't mount the projector(I may be able to, I need to check) can either of those be used from on top of a bookshelf or from a coffee table? I'm thinking the only place I'd have room for a screen is the A-B wall(the wall Superman07 mentions above is exposed log so I don't think that would work so well for a projector screen). With a 12' throw from the projector that would place my couch perpendicular to the entry door. I'm going to read reviews on all the products mentioned. Thanks!

Amator

You're right, I'm starting with nothing. My current electronic equipment consists of my laptop, my ipod, my cell phone, and my digital camera. I've spent the last few years traveling around so I've haven't had much that couldn't go with me.

If I go with a tv(I'm 95% set on a projector unless it just won't work for the space) I really like your idea to put it on the wall backing the bed/bath. Great thinking on listing computer 5.1 vs HTIB, I'll spend some time looking into that.

Thanks!

Amator

Here are a few more crappy jpegs of the setups mentioned above.

Superman07's tv setup:

Projector setup:

One good thing about the projector setup is that I can put my desk behind the couch. I'd keep the dining room table in front of the screen, and when using the projector I'd just move the table into the kitchen. Not terribly convenient, but a good argument for a small table.

What do you guys think?

Sdallnct

The Mit has a slightly bigger lens off set so if you were going to try to put on a coffee table (a lot table) it would project a higher image. But then with only a 7' ceiling you can't go to high.

Generally the Mit is higher rated for image quality. The HD70 was the first real HD PJ that retailed below $1,000. They are both 720p and well liked (I have the HD70).

You can go to projector central and play with their lens throw calculator to see if it would work in your space.

Amator

Projector Central says the Mitsubishi HD1000U is out of production, but I see it for sale on several other sites. If it is oop, does that mean that getting a replacement bulb will be a pain in the ass?

Sdallnct

Doubt you will have trouble. That projector normally sold for around $1,500. When the HD70 came out, Mit lowered the selling price to directly compete with the HD70 and they sold a ton of them.

Assuming there is no problem the bulbs can last 2000 to 3000 hours. I've had my HD70 14 monts and have 2200 hours on it and watch it a lot. I mean a lot! But if you get three years out of it, I'd consider not replacing the bulb, but upgrading the projector. By then a quality 1080p pj will be very available at a reasonable price. And if you make say 100" screen that is somthing to consider as IMHO that is when you really see a difference in resolution.

I did that with my first pj, a 480p model. I used it till the bulb was about to go but rather then spend $250 on a bulb I bought the HD70 for like $750. So basically for $500 I upgraded to HD and a nice pj. I'd do that again, but decent 1080p pj are still $2,000 or more, so I'll likely get another bulb for the HD70 and upgrade next time around.

I never had a chance to compare the Mit and HD70 side by side. In fact didn't see either one before purchasing. But most accounts say that the Mit has better black and slightly better color. I only went with the HD70 has the added lens offset was a concern for me with two rows of seating. Otherwise I would have gone with the Mit. But the HD70 is nice and I'm happy with it.

This is a great, balance review of the HD70 and he does talk a little about comparing to the Mit, but remember at the time the Mit sold for $500 or more then the HD70 http://www.projectorreviews.com/optoma/hd70/index.php

Amator

Well, I just got a $500 bonus check at work today that I think I'll funnel it into this project. If I stay with the system outlined above, that will also allow me to get an Xbox 360 pkg at costco and leave some extra for stands, cables, etc.

I move in exactly two weeks, I can't wait to get started.

JimRochester

For my apartment in NY I used a Yamaha HTIB from Best Buy for about $300. I was surprised at how good that thing sounded. Now there was no doubt it was strictly for a small area, but as a get started piece, that's a great way to get surround sound right away then upgrade the pieces as you wish.

Amator

Do you guys (Sdallnct in particular) have any suggested vendors? I'm having a hard time trying to find the items you listed for the prices you estimated. I want to get everything in about two weeks, and can wait a bit for sales, but not too long.

Also, I'm thinking I should go ahead and order a HDMI cable from monoprice, so I can evaluate the projector and not have to wait two weeks for a cable. I'm thinking a 12' might be the best for my setup. Any input?

Sdallnct

Here are the KEF speakers,

http://www.accessories4less.com/cgi-.../KEFKHT1005BLK

However, you may want to check out your local Circuit City. Evidently they are clearing out the KHT2005's which is a model up for the same $300. I would check that out first. There is a thread over at fatwallet (I can never remember if ok to post those theads or not).

Amazon has the H/K for $285. Yea, $10 more then I thought, but FREE shipping which is a big deal since the unit is fairly heavy. Also no tax for most.

http://www.amazon.com/Harman-Kardon-...2665935&sr=8-1

The Onkyo 505 can be had for roughly $50 less and is very popular as well,

http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-TX-SR505...2666024&sr=1-4

For about $100 more then the H/K you can get the Onkyo 605 which is probably the most popular receiver there right now.

The HD70 is selling for $720 at Circuit City, but if you can find a AAA discount you can get another 10% off.

http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/Searc...7&mid=FW6ethi1

But please, please, look over at AVS. Initial looks shows the HD32 to be the same as the HD70. But check first.

I can't find the HD1000U either. Guess I'm a little behind the times. However looks like you can get the HC1500 for a grand easily. Which is a very, very nice unit.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Mitsubishi-HC1500.htm

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Mits...500-prices.htm

Looks like there is a $200 rebate on the actual HD70. So if you can find one on sale, that could be a really good deal as well.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Optoma-HD70-prices.htm

As for length of cables, it all comes down to where you are putting your equipment vs. the projector. I needed a 20 foot one as I ceiling mounted my pj. Monoprice is great and if you are going "in wall" they have CL2 rated cables.

toddly6666

For space saving in small apartments, are there such thing as tiny speakers and tiny subwoofers?

Sdallnct

The KEF's I linked above are small.

Or if you want smaller...check out the Orb.



http://www.orbaudio.com/

Or you can try the SVS system.



And I have heard these and am impressed



http://reviews.cnet.com/surround-spe...-31624255.html

Amator

Wow, thanks so much Sdallnct, you are truly a home theater force of nature.

Amator

HELL YEAH!

I went to both Circuit Cities in Greenville on my lunch hour. The first one sold out two weeks ago, but at the second I found a display set of the KEF KHT2005 in silver. The speakers sounded OMFG awesome(300 was the demo playing) and I asked the CC employee how much for the display set.

He went into the back and came back a few minutes later. "How about $199.99?"

I nearly shit my pants. "I'll take it!" I yelped out almost instantaneously. I was so high on cloud nine that I agreed to the 10 year protection plan for $29.99. All told, I made it out the door $243.75 poorer, but I think I got a pretty good deal.

Thanks again for the heads up, Sdallnct.

Raul3

You got a really good deal there!

Amator

Yep, now just to get the right receiver to power these babies....

Also, what gauge speaker wire should I get? Using the setup outlined above do you think a 100' roll from monoprice would be enough for all 5 and the sub? Should I use bare wire or banana clips? I really know nothing about all this.

cerulean

I have space issues and this system looks like a good solution for a reasonable price. Has anyone here heard how it sounds?

Sdallnct

Awesome deal! For $200 I'd get a set. And while I don't normally buy a warranty, $30 for 10 years is a good deal on something that was a Demo. Now if there there is a problem 3-4 years from now they might just refund your $300 but still good deal.

You do NOT want to under power those speakers. Just because you got them for the price of a nice computer speaker set up does not mean you should just hook anything up to them. Any of the H/K's would be fine (don't worry about their low power rating they are about the only company to rate correctly). Most of the Onkyo's would be fine. And it is not about volume, it is about richness and depth to sound. Since you saved a $100 off your budget on the speakers you might consider moving up on the receiver so you could easily take advantage of the newest audio formats on HD or BD. The Onkyo 605 is the most popular receiver out there right now. And the H/K 247 should do as well. Just a thought.

Sdallnct

See notes about receiver above. The gauge of wire is up to you and your budget. Some will recommend going as thick as you can if you are going long distances. Others say quality makes a difference, others say it is all the same and those that think there is a difference are only buying into marketing hype.

Monoprice is an excellent source. I ended up getting mine at Home Depot (or Lowes). They had spools of "oxygen free" copper, CL2 rated speaker wire at a good price. I went thru over a 100' but I did run in the attic and down a wall for 6 speakers (I have a 6.1 set up). As for the gauge, I really don't remember. It was a little heavy, maybe 12. I don't think 10. BTW you want to check to see how big of wire those speakers can take. Whatever I got just fit my Celestions, which are kissing cousins to the KEF.

And personally, I'd just go bare wire and be done with.

Amator

Thanks for the advice.

I'm going tonight to Best Buy, CC, and Tweeter to check out their receivers. I want to see one of the HKs and/or Onkyos in person, and I'd also like to check out what Sony, Denon, and Marantz are offering in that same price range ($300-500). At this point, I'm gunning for a HK AVR 247.

Oh, and a projector question:

Considering the space limitations and the 7ft ceiling height, do you think I will need to do a ceiling mount to get a 100" display on the wall I want? (shown in the jpg above)

If so, I'm thinking of getting this mount: Adtec TH-WH-PJ-FM

Thanks!

Sdallnct

Well I like the ceiling mount as it gets the pj up and out of the way. However, you need to check some calculators, lens offset and do some math to see what works for you. Also, I like ceiling as you can run the wires up in the attic. But since you are in an apartment this might actually make wire management more difficult.

That seems high for a mount. Check Monoprice. I also don't like that mount as it looks like it really lowers the pj, which is bad if you only have 7' ceilings. I make my own adjustable mount with parts from Home Depot for about $12 in parts (but total cost was about $20 since they only had a big piece of Plexiglases). Mounts have really dropped in price so you might not save much, but a DIY mount can really be a "ceiling hugger" if you plan right. Super simple to do. Let me know if you are interested. If you look close at the pic's in my sig you can just see parts of my mount. This was with my old pj, but I built a new one for my new pj. Plexiglass, plumbing pipes and couple of screws and bolts. Easy as pie.

The one think you want to try to avoid is any sort of pj "tilt". The pj's you are looking at do not have lens shifting. Meaning your pj needs to be perfectly level (either on a table or on the ceiling). If you have to tilt just a tiny bit, it might be ok as these have electronic keystone correction. But it is widely held that using the electronic keystone correction will effect the overall pic quality in a bad way.

Amator

Hmm...I'm torn between the HK AVR 247 and the Onkyo 605, I like the look of the HK better, but I like some of the "futureproof" features of the Onkyo as well. I'll try to decide tomorrow and place my order(probably w/ Amazon) tomorrow.

Anyone have any last minute receiver advice on either of these?