Slayer2005

If you guys don't need a portable unit look into an Infocus IN72. It's superior in every way. The DV10 4000:1 contrast is complete BS. It uses a useless technology called "Image AI" in order to claim that ratio. Turn it off and you're probably down to under 1500:1. Not too bad, but not as good as the Infocus IN72, which achieves upto 2200:1 and maybe a bit higher, native contrast. Plus, the IN72 comes pretuned to D65 standard out of the box, so very little tweaking is need to get an accurate image. Not only that, but the IN72 is a light canon. Sometimes you have to ignore manufacturer specs. Infocus' units specs are generally calculated based on home theater optimized calibration settings.

One thing I can tell you is that the DV10's 1000 lumens does not equal the IN72's 900 lumen rating or even the Infocus 4805's 600-750 lumen rating (depending on lamp mode). Calibrated it probably clocks in at about 370-470 when calibrated for film. It can achieve higher for games though.

Here's a screenshot from an HD feed on an Infocus 4805 (which is about $400-$500). That unit is a lot like the IN72, but the IN72 is a bit better in virtually every way:




So, HD gaming and HD in general look superb on these units, despite the native 480p resolution. They provide awesome bang for the buck.

Infact, here is my 4805 in action (my camera isn't as good though. It's a camcorder):

GreenMonkey

I see some folks getting the projector bug. I got my 800x600 (480p in 16:9) Infocus X1 4 years ago for $999 and built a screen myself for about $60. For the past 2 years at the new house I've just been using a white wall. Upgraded to a 720p Optoma HD72 last fall for $836 AR as I was running out of bulb hours on the X1.

BTW: I'd take a 480p DLP projector over a puny 42" or 50" HDTV any day, especially for movie watching.

Slayer2005

Me too. There's no comparison to watching an image 4x the size or more (in my case more. My screen is 9'2"/110" diagonal. 4x the size of a 55"er.)

However, I mostly use my CRT projector for movies though, but it's often the most amazing picture I think I've ever seen. With FFDShow sharpening and low end gamma correction the quality is unreal. The on/off contrast is probably infinite. On AVSForum DarinP stated that a CRT with gamma correction could achieve 700,000:1 on/off contrast. I'm guessing that's with black very slightly elevated above true black, otherwise it would be inifinite you'd think. I achieve true black fade to blacks while retaining good shadow detail using low end gamma correction. So on/off my contrast should be infinite.

I'm still hoping digital blacks get a lot closer to CRT before I make a final transition to digital, but they do offer very nice quality and simplicity for the price. The JVC RS-1 is a step in the right direction and is 1080, but it costs about $6000 (though I've seen it for as low as $4,500). Not sure if you've heard of it, but it achieves 15,000-18,000 NATIVE (no iris tricks) on/off contrast. They're getting there.

The prices of digitals is getting more and more amazing each year. I mean, now you can get 1080p LCD (I believe with the new D6 C2Fine panels) for under $3,000. The Epson 1080. Before you know it 720p DLP will hit $500.

NeilJ

Well I have just started following this thread with great interest. I confess I had not considered a projector setup of any kind for my HT but after seeing some of the screenshots I am thinking I might really want to go this route. The DV10 sounds like it might be the thing for be to start out with, especially since at this time we do not have the space in our current home for a dedicated projector system. I really had my mind made up to go with a tv around 60 inches or so but am so intrigued by the DV10 and a projector setup that I am considering that and then picking up some type of perhaps plasma around the 42 inch size. My big concern I guess is the only doing 420p. I am really racking my brain over this as I see the deal pretty much ends this Saturday. What to do...what to do....

Slayer2005

It's actually 480p and trust me you'll be surprised at how great 480p can look. It can look amazing. A good dvd just looks superb. It's best to sit at least 1.8X the width of the screen though. 2x is recommended. It depends on your eye sight and sensitivity to screen door effect. I know some that sit a lot closer though.

BTW, all the screenshots I posted are of 480p units only. The DV10 is nice, but not as great as the IN72. 720p can be had for $875-$914 TOTAL easily. If you want higher resoluton, but don't have the money for 720p you can also look into 1024x576p (near HD) or XGA 4:3 (1024x768. You can mask for 16:9 which is 1024x576p) like the Mitsubishi HC900U (good choice, iris on board) or Sharp XR-10x (light canon).

Here is my $500 (less now) 4805 with one heavily shaded light on (I can read in the room even though you can't tell from the pic) on my pale gray wall at 12 feet wide. This is with composite video btw which is much lower quality than using component or using a PC using FFDShow. I also had to blur the image a bit in post to get rid of my camcorder grain, so just know the image in person is amazing and film like:



This large of a size isn't generally recommended for 480p units (due to SDE) or home theater units in general (due to light output of most when calibrated). However, the 4805 is one of the brightest home theater models (calibrated) around and with a slight defocus in the right direction pixel structure can be greatly minimized with little effect on image sharpness. Add a little FFDShow sharpening and bam it can sometiems look near HD sharp.

BTW if you run 84" (which is tiny for front projection, IMO, since I run 9'2"/110" generally. ) that's FOUR times bigger than a 42" Plasma. No comparison in immersive experience.

NeilJ

Thanks for the info Slayer! I am really interested I think in going the projector route long term. My problem is currently we have our house up for sale and are looking for a new home and with the housing market like it is right now I am not sure how long we will be invovled in this process. The dv10 seemed like a super deal as I do not want to mount anything at this time nor do I have the space to dedicate to a mounted projector/screen setup. So the IN72 is 480p as well? I am thinking though that investing in the 720p in the long run would be the best idea. I do not have a HD player at this time but wonder how the pic quality would be with that setup. The price on the dv10 though with the free screen just seems almost too good to pass up but I hate the thought of buying that and loving the projector and then having to turn around and buy a better unit after we get a new house. aughhhhhhh!! maybe I am just thinking too much as your pic looks extremly good. I showed my wife the pics and she loved them and the idea I just do not want to waste 500 bucks!

NeilJ

oh and the thought of being able to immerse myself in this kind of setup is what as me most attracted to it! I really think I would just use it for the most part for viewing my dvd's. I would still need to pick up something in the 42 inch range I think for everyday tv watching.

Slayer2005

Just so you should know. Don't expect ambient light results likle the first screenshots. The 4805 is a bright unit and my screen is a custom super high gain silver torus that I built (a concave screen). However, with a fairly bright unit decent ambient light results can be achieved through clever light control (ie blocking out the sun and shading light bulbs and using very few of them and using a light grey screen).

X

Since various projector discussions frequently get hijacked with posts about the Infocus 4805/In72/CRT I split that discussion out into its own thread.

Sdallnct

No, not really.

NeilJ

How so? I really did not think that most people use their projector for everyday tv watching?? I guess I need to start doing some serious research into projectors. It appears I should just hold off rushing into a purchase this weekend just to get in on a deal and study this a bit more.

Sdallnct

Other then HD/Blu-ray DVD, OTA HD (HD TV) is the best source you can have. Wouldn't you want the best source on your pj?

Seriously....we watch our PJ every day. All the CSI's, Grey's Anatomy, NCIS, Dangerous Minds, Las Vegas, Desperate Housewives,Letterman, Leno, SNL, NFL, NBA, etc, etc. all just look awesome in HD on the PJ. We even have a local news on one channel in HD.

Todays pj's are bright, quite, user friendly (especially if you get something like a harmony remote).

There are two things you should consider when using a pj for "everyday" viewing:

-If you have a very bright room, no light control and watch a lot during the day.
-Bulb life.

However, these are just considerations not absolute reasons not to do it.

1st - bright lights effect all displays. Even super, torch bright LCDs. So regardless of display to get the best image you should manage the light.
2nd - even taking bulb life into consideration, you are talking penney's a day. Well worth the enjoyment.

The big issue with pj's is the initial set up. Running wires, ceiling mount, etc. You want to plan carefully, and be willing to put some work into it. But this is a one time event. Once this is all done, the pj is as easy to use as a TV. Both my wife and kids often go in our theater room just to watch tv or even Friends DVD's. With a Harmony remote, it is one touch operation for everything!

And IMHO, there is no better value. A good digital HD PJ will cost $850-$1,200, build the screen yourself (or wait for a deal where they include the cost of the screen) and you have the makings of a very nice, enjoyable set up.

NeilJ

Hey thank you kindly for all the info!! Good points to think about. The cost of the bulb would worry me though as I have read in these threads the bulbs running 300 or more bucks.
I have been so impressed with the pics/info in these threads that I am really sure a PJ is what my future holds.
My wife is a hairdresser and in a casual conversation a couple of days ago with a client of hers about my looking into a PJ, her customer told her that thats what they switched too and invited us over to see it. I jumped on that offer and am looking forward to seeing one first hand as I did not know anyone that had one so I have never seen one in action.
I never cease to be amazed at the wealth of info and tips I get from these forums. Thanks everyone!!

Slayer2005

The title in this thread should have "7805" changed to "4805".

X

Yes I should know better, having one myself.

Sdallnct

Forget about the bulb life. Even at $300 most are rated at 2500 to 3500 hours. Average 4 hours per day every day...works out to about 2 years, probably a little more. Well worth the cost IMHO.

My first projector was an X1, nice unit. After about 2 years rather then replace the bulb, I upgraded to a HD70. Tho, I'll probably replace the bulb at least once before upgrading again.

Sdallnct

Oh, I realized I forgot one more thing about bulb life...

Yes, they are $300. And....how much was that 50" plasma (or 56" RP, or about anything else) going to run vs. the pj?

The best value in 50" plasma's is the Panny which runs in the $1,600 to $1,800 range. The best values in pj run in the $850 to $1,300 range. So on the front end you are saving at least two, maybe three bulbs in $$! This is NOT a knock on the Panny. Awesome set. Considering one for my living room.

This is also why I don't understand getting a nice tv in addition to a projector "to save the bulb". Even a 42" plasma is going to run $900 to $1,100. That is THREE bulbs. So why mess with the additional wiring, hook ups, installation pains, etc.

There maybe other reason to get a traditional tv in addition to the pj, but it makes no sense to me to do it just to save the bulb. They aren't THAT expensive.

DVD Polizei

Well, I receive my 50" Panasonic plasma tomorrow.

Sdallnct

Hey, not knocking the panny plasma at all. I'm just talking about bulb life here. If the major consideration was between it and a pj AND for what ever reason you went with a pj, no need to worry about bulb life as you actually have saved money on the front.

There are strong, excellent reasons, to get the panny over a pj. Not the least of which is the panny has the absolute best picture I have ever seen on any display. It is just that bulb life is not one of those reasons.

I'm still looking for a set for the living room and the panny plasma is at the top of my list. I just think the 50" my be physically to big....

DVD Polizei

Yeah, that's one of the drawbacks. I wouldn't mind having a projector I could just put on a shelf and a screen I could have rolled up.

Mazje

I've got a 4805 question, and rather than starting another thread, I'll just ask it here:

We recently popped in a He-Man cartoon disc. When Adam changes into He-Man, there's a flash of bright light, and my projector suddenly "blinked" out, switched to the "Searching for source" screen, then came back on. It also did this several times during Call of Cthulu (that silent film, made to look like it was made in the 20's). It's not the end of the world, but it is distracting. Any help?


(And yes, I realize I provided one of the most ridiculous examples I could have, but it's the first time I noticed it.)

Sdallnct

You need to go into the set up menu and check the box.

What box? It is something to do with sync....look around I bet your find it.

Another disc you can test it on is Disney's The Incredibles. The begining intro has some bright flashes that will do it to. Once you check the appropriate box, it will be taken care of.

Mazje

Thanks for the assist, but I'm still lost. I've tried adjusting a couple of things, including one that had to with sync, but it's still doing it. Basically, the screen goes black, then it comes back up with the little gray box in the corner telling me what source it's coming from.

X

I think you want to increase the value of the sync threshold. But if that doesn't work, try decreasing it.

Sdallnct

On my X1 it was just a check box. Are your running the most current firmware?

I'll look over at AVS, you might do the same.