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Plasma vs Projection LCD - Need some help...

Old 04-11-07, 11:46 PM
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Plasma vs Projection LCD - Need some help...

Hi All, I am buying a new TV (my movers dropped my old 64" pioneer elite projection down the stairs when I moved into my new place...).

I have been doing some research over the past month trying to make a good decision and well... I need some input.

My situation:

Room: I live in a 2 bedroom townhouse with plenty of room in my living room and the room can be kept dark when needed.

Viewing: 99% of the time it will be me or me and my girlfriend wathcing the set head on at a distance of about 10'.

Usage: 99% of the time I use it to watch DVD's (I don't even have cable) and I am thinking about getting a Playstation 3 for kicks and some Blu-Ray movies. In addition I watch it about 4 hours a day.

What I want:

A high end 60" + Projection or Plasma set that gives me the best picture at that size for what I am using it for...

That if I do spend $6K + on it that it is really worth it when from what I can see I can get a 1080p LCD projection at that size for $2k'sh.

The sets I am considering...

Sony KDS-60A2000

Samsung HL-S6187W

Pioneer Elite PDP-6070HD

I have a Pioneer Elite VSX-37TX Receiver and excellent speakers. I have been told that I need to run my DVD player directly to the set due to the fact that my receiver is too old to handle the 1080p signal. I haven't decided on my DVD player yet (I put my old Pioneer Elite in my bedroom) but I will more than likely get at least a good upconverting player maybe a Blu-Ray. Any input here would be nice too...

Anyways, I would REALLY appreciate some input from the experts here on this board.

THANKS !!!
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Old 04-12-07, 12:38 AM
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I have the KDS-60A2000 and highly recommend it. It will give you more bang for your buck compared to a plasma (60" 1080p plasmas are certainly not cheap at this point) and should give you an excellent picture. But to clarify, that set is a LCOS rear projection, not LCD. But that's a good thing, because I think LCOS RP is better than LCD RP (the JVC D-ILA sets are also LCOS and seem to get good reviews). Maybe I'm biased, but I vote for the Sony (and I'd be happy to answer any specific questions you may have about that set).

Last edited by cultshock; 04-12-07 at 12:40 AM.
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Old 04-12-07, 01:55 AM
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I agree with cultshock. I have a 50-inch Sony SXRD and love it. LCoS is considered to produce a phenomenal picture for the money. You won't be disappointed. For what it's worth, I like plasma a lot too, especially Panasonic and Pioneer.

Oh, and you should have the movers who dropped your old Pioneer Elite shot.
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Old 04-12-07, 10:49 PM
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Um, why not go for something big instead of just a big box? 720p projectors start at $900. 1080p projectors start at around $3500. Make the screen whatever size fits. 90", 100", 120".

Wait til Denon comes out with a HD disc player before upgrading is my advice.
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Old 04-13-07, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Spiky
Um, why not go for something big instead of just a big box? 720p projectors start at $900. 1080p projectors start at around $3500. Make the screen whatever size fits. 90", 100", 120".

Wait til Denon comes out with a HD disc player before upgrading is my advice.
What Spiky says!

Once you start looking at the 60" size, I would definitely start looking at front projectors. I'm running a HD70 (less then $900) which is 720p, and loving life on my 94" DIY screen (considering building another), with OTA HD, PS3 for blu-ray and Bravo D1 for up converting SD DVD's.

Even if you consider extra long cables (which are not expensive), screen and maybe a HDMI switcher, which again is not expensive, front projector are BY FAR the best value in HD right now. And new digital models are bright, quality picture that are easy to set up.
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Old 04-13-07, 02:08 PM
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the answer is in your question, if you wanna play PS3 (or other video game), get LCD forget about plasma =)
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Old 04-13-07, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by LNTwebmaster
the answer is in your question, if you wanna play PS3 (or other video game), get LCD forget about plasma =)
Why? Plasma's tend to have faster pixel response times than LCD's, and that is important to gamers.
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Old 04-13-07, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by LNTwebmaster
the answer is in your question, if you wanna play PS3 (or other video game), get LCD forget about plasma =)
I see you're still stuck in the old mindset that plasma is prone to easy burn in. It isn't anymore.
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Old 04-15-07, 09:50 AM
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hehe I know, my cousin got pioneer's latest plasma generation that is 100% used for video games, no burn in problem anymore but in long term it shorterns the live life of the screen due to the nature of plasma cell itself.
Technology can evolve, but you CAN'T change physics
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Old 04-15-07, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by leest3
Why? Plasma's tend to have faster pixel response times than LCD's, and that is important to gamers.
This is about as deceiving statement as the one that ALL plasmas are prone to burn-in.

Pro-B
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Old 04-15-07, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by LNTwebmaster
hehe I know, my cousin got pioneer's latest plasma generation that is 100% used for video games, no burn in problem anymore but in long term it shorterns the live life of the screen due to the nature of plasma cell itself.
Technology can evolve, but you CAN'T change physics
Maybe, maybe not (tho I'm curious how the "plasma cell" itself knows the difference between a game and a tv show). But I notice you don't mention how long a plasma will last, gaming or no gaming.

IMHO, two issues that are no longer a significant issue with regards to plasma's:

burn in
longevity
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Old 04-15-07, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by LNTwebmaster
hehe I know, my cousin got pioneer's latest plasma generation that is 100% used for video games, no burn in problem anymore but in long term it shorterns the live life of the screen due to the nature of plasma cell itself.
Technology can evolve, but you CAN'T change physics
That makes no sense. If burn-in isn't an issue, there is no reason a video game will affect a plasma any differently than TV or DVD images.
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Old 04-15-07, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Sdallnct
Maybe, maybe not (tho I'm curious how the "plasma cell" itself knows the difference between a game and a tv show). But I notice you don't mention how long a plasma will last, gaming or no gaming.

IMHO, two issues that are no longer a significant issue with regards to plasma's:

burn in
longevity
I'll take a stab at this.

Video games are more rich in color which produce more impact on the plasma cells and LCD pixels. The common movie could never be as rich in color because it's simply not realistic to your eyes. In fact, you'd probably would turn the color saturation down if movies were created like video games.

A still frame of a movie on a plasma set would be minimal compared to a video game on pause because the color saturations of the different source material would be significantly different.

What we're dealing with, is charged electrons. More color means more charged electrons have to be stimulated to produce that color effect. The less electrons charged, the less chances of your plasma (or lcd) would have with burn-in. Burn-in, from my definition, means an individual cell or pixel has been literally burned/bloomed because of an extremely high amount of electrons being charged over an extended period of time without any "resting" period.
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Old 04-15-07, 07:44 PM
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Do you have a source for this information, or are you speculating?
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Old 04-15-07, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Spiky
Um, why not go for something big instead of just a big box? 720p projectors start at $900. 1080p projectors start at around $3500. Make the screen whatever size fits. 90", 100", 120".

Wait til Denon comes out with a HD disc player before upgrading is my advice.
1080p LCD now starts at about $2,995. 720p DLP can be had for $875 or less total. Things are lookin up.
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Old 04-15-07, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by DVD Polizei
I'll take a stab at this.

Video games are more rich in color which produce more impact on the plasma cells and LCD pixels. The common movie could never be as rich in color because it's simply not realistic to your eyes. In fact, you'd probably would turn the color saturation down if movies were created like video games.

A still frame of a movie on a plasma set would be minimal compared to a video game on pause because the color saturations of the different source material would be significantly different.
You're kidding, right? Richer color means phosphor wear out faster? Are you just making stuff up that sounds possible?

Saturation is a measure of how much color is in the pic. (saturated blue really means less red/green is on) Contrast/brightness is likely the only thing that could possibly, but very very slightly, affect the longevity of the phosphor. (other than normal use) So that takes the 60000 hour life down to maybe 59980? Let's see, at 10 hours/day, that's 16 years, 5.5 months. My recommendation would be to calibrate it so those settings are correct.
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Old 04-25-07, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Salty
That makes no sense. If burn-in isn't an issue, there is no reason a video game will affect a plasma any differently than TV or DVD images.
it doesn't make sence because you don't get how plasma cells works.
as DVD Polizei said "More color means more charged electrons have to be stimulated to produce that color effect" the electron charged that gives birth to color is "photon of high voltage" here (not sure if you call it that way in english ) but is also responsible for the shorternt of the lenght of plasma cells' live life (especially the blue color) when it is continiously excited and not refreshed. AS you would understand, if the color is brighter (especially with vdeo games) and the cell not refreshed frequently...the number of luminophore (blue one) decreases... while in LCD the liquid "gets old" but is still there.

I'm into technology stuff and I seized the opportunity to talk with researchers & Professors from "Laboratoire de Physique des Matériaux" université de Jussieu, Paris France (specialty plasma cells) who work with the firm "Thomson Plasma". You can ask any physicians, they will all give you the same answer. =)

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Old 04-25-07, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist
This is about as deceiving statement as the one that ALL plasmas are prone to burn-in.

Pro-B
Why? Plasma's response times are so fast they aren't even listed as a spec. Almost instantaneous.

Last edited by leest3; 04-25-07 at 09:26 PM.
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Old 04-25-07, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by LNTwebmaster
it doesn't make sence because you don't get how plasma cells works.
as DVD Polizei said "More color means more charged electrons have to be stimulated to produce that color effect" the electron charged that gives birth to color is "photon of high voltage"
No, more blue does not mean the red and green cells are left on and the blue is supercharged to wear out faster. It means the red and green are turned down/off. That is, LESS usage for those colors.

Now, I suppose if you leave the plasma on a solid blue screen for a few months....yes, it will reduce the blue faster than the red or green. But running TV vs DVD vs games will not.

It sounds like you guys are taking CRT projector specs and assuming the same for plasma screens. Plasma cells last so much longer than CRT guns they aren't even in the same game.
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Old 04-25-07, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Spiky
You're kidding, right? Richer color means phosphor wear out faster? Are you just making stuff up that sounds possible?

Saturation is a measure of how much color is in the pic. (saturated blue really means less red/green is on) Contrast/brightness is likely the only thing that could possibly, but very very slightly, affect the longevity of the phosphor. (other than normal use) So that takes the 60000 hour life down to maybe 59980? Let's see, at 10 hours/day, that's 16 years, 5.5 months. My recommendation would be to calibrate it so those settings are correct.
Actually, you're wrong. Hate to burst your RGB bubble, but plasma cells have 3 of what we call "subpixels" and each subpixel has a different color phosphor in them. Red. Green. Blue. Each one is "excited" appropriately, depending on the video source and it's color intensity.

Saturation is a measure of how much color is in an image--I agree, but we're not talking about cameras here or the images they make. We're talking about plasma televisions. Not cameras. Not LCD televisions. Plasma televisions.

What you are talking about, is more akin to a Bayer sensor, typically found on most cameras, which don't have a particular color per se, but special "filters" which are sensitive to particular wavelengths of color.

A plasma television rated at 60,000 hours will more than likely NOT last as long as a simple calculation. It will depend on the saturation of the video you stream to it over a period of time. The phosphor WILL burn out. It will dim. It will be sensitive to high-color input and will lower its life appropriately.

And to counter your fantasy that I'm making this stuff up (seems like I remember your posts relating to speakers), I'll post a few links for you:

http://www.lcdtvbuyingguide.com/lcdtv-plasmavslcd.shtml

http://www.plasmatvscience.org/theinnerworkings.html

http://www.plasmadepot.com/plasmatv/howplasmaworks.html

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com...a-display1.htm

I'd hate to irritate you more, but I'm a little familiar with imaging technology as well.
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Old 04-26-07, 04:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Spiky
No, more blue does not mean the red and green cells are left on and the blue is supercharged to wear out faster. It means the red and green are turned down/off. That is, LESS usage for those colors.
That is not plasma cells principle you are talking about here but LCD...
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Old 04-26-07, 05:51 AM
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Originally Posted by SilverScreen
Hi All, I am buying a new TV (my movers dropped my old 64" pioneer elite projection down the stairs when I moved into my new place...)

Did you drop them down the stairs?
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Old 04-26-07, 07:49 AM
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I read 2 of those links, out of time right now for more. Neither of them contradict what I said. Light works the same way whether LCD, CRT, plasma, SED, etc. is creating it. You mix the 3 main colors (we'll call them primary for this discussion) in various ways to get the right color. You have to reduce one primary color to get a more vivid picture of another of the primary colors. You can't supercharge the blue electrons in plasma to overcome having the red/green showing up, all you would get is a different shade of brown.

Which is what I've been saying: The high-intensity primary colors of a video game will not be substantially different for normal wear time on a plasma cell than (less?) normal intensity colors of your typical movie.

I'm really not sure why you are arguing this, you seem to be discussing how light is created in the panel (in which case LCD and plasma are certainly different), not intensity of the specific colors of light.
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Old 04-26-07, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Spiky
I read 2 of those links, out of time right now for more. Neither of them contradict what I said.
I agree. The links seem to explain how plasmas work, but I saw nothing to indicate video games shorten their lives.
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Old 04-27-07, 09:57 AM
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It is amazing how confusing the topic of "which tv to get" is with all the knowledgeable people here...can you imagine how confusing this all must be for the average consumer.

I am almost glad I can't afford a new tv right now since I don't know which one I would get.
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