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quality loss going from 56" TO 61" DLP

Old 10-21-06, 10:54 AM
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quality loss going from 56" TO 61" DLP

I thought i read somewhere that there is a loss of quality, due to the same amount of light covering a larger screen, between a 56" and 61" rear projection.

The sets in question are the Samsung DLP 1080p 56"/61".

I checked at C City and couldnt see any difference.

Anyone have any personal experience.
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Old 10-21-06, 12:51 PM
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You currently own a 56" TV and want to upgrade to a larger 61" tv? Not much of an upgrade. I would think if you currently have a 56" and find you want something bigger, it is time for front projector.
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Old 10-21-06, 01:17 PM
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I dont have either. im planning on buying a samung dlp, either the 56" or the 61". if there is no difference in quality or a very small difference im going to go with the 61"
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Old 10-21-06, 01:25 PM
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Well if you have not experienced the 56" or lived with it for a long time, then I don't see how you would notice a difference.

The only thing that makes a difference is YOU. If you like the 61", have the $$ and the room for it, I would go with that. I have heard very few people complain about their TV being TOO big. Tho technically I guess it is important to ask how far is your main seating area?

Heck I use a 94" Homemade WS with a projector and I'm already planning on a larger screen when I upgrade projectors.
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Old 10-21-06, 03:11 PM
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Bigger is better.
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Old 10-21-06, 08:21 PM
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Well, if these 2 sets use the exact same lamp, then yes, the 61" will be dimmer. Dimmer is not worse PQ, it is just dimmer. Which could possibly change how you have to have lights in the room to get perfect PQ, so I suppose in a roundabout way it could affect quality.

I wouldn't think a change from 56 to 61 would be all that huge. The 61 is less than 20% bigger screen in area, not like you are talking double the space.
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Old 10-21-06, 09:41 PM
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Theres not going to be any real difference simple as that really. Unless you're talking two entirely different quality sets, but all things being equal they'll be the same.
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Old 10-23-06, 01:19 PM
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1920X1080 pixels packed into a 56" area vs 61" will give a very slightly more "dense" look. However, I wouldn't sweat it.
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Old 10-25-06, 02:02 PM
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Bigger is indeed better. Infact 61" is far too small. My screen is 4 times the size of a 55" widescreen set. Infact, I now find that too small. So, I am planning another big size upgrade.

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Old 10-25-06, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Slayer2005
Bigger is indeed better. Infact 61" is far too small. My screen is 4 times the size of a 55" widescreen set. Infact, I now find that too small. So, I am planning another big size upgrade.

Don't you lose alot of resolution with a screen that big?
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Old 10-26-06, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by DVD Josh
Don't you lose alot of resolution with a screen that big?
The resolution does not change no matter how big you go. Digital tvs and projectors are fixed pixel devices. An 854x480p projector like my Infocus 4805 (which is not even close to my best projector for film material) will always have 409,920 pixels. As long as you don't sit too close where you can see the pixels it's fantastic. Looks like a giant plasma. CRT projector though (which are my other two) do not have pixels, so one can sit even closer with a CRT if they wish.

I (and other people I know of) find the picture (DVD and especially HD) to actually look better at 110" diagonal. You actually see the details you are missing with a small tv (even a 50" "big screen" tv). With a larger image (assuming you're do not sit too far away) you can resolve more of the resolution (details).

Of course with a 720p projector you can even go bigger than with a 480p projector at the same seating distance. Let's not forget that 1080p is often used on screens 40-50+ feet wide in digital cinemas. 1080p is only 6 times the resolution of DVDs and 2.25x 720p.

The actual image I seen in person are much better better than my camcorder can capture.

The Infocus 4805 (the one used for the screenshot) can now be had for about $400-$550 easily. It is not my main projector though. My CRT projectors blow it away with film material in the dark. When I first saw a Blu-Ray demo at Best Buy on a 42" Plasma it didn't looks close to many of my FFDShow processed dvds on my CRT projector at 110" (which is 4x the size of a 55" screen). It was hilarious and sad at the same time.

The comments my system has gotten is usually "Holy shit!". I've seen 65" CRT HDTVs in homes that can't touch my $700 CRT projector at 110" or my $200 CRT projector (which is better than my $700 one). Of course it helps that I am a much better calibrator than the average person. It pains me to see a 65" CRT HDTV in someone's home with an elevated black level that makes it look like a digital.

As HD material becomes more and more avaialable eventually I plan to move up to at least a 14.22' x 8' screen.

Ever since going with front projection big screen tvs have become laughable ripoffs in my eyes. I stopped using my 55" HDTV. Once you go big you don't go back.

Big screen tvs are home theater imitations. Front projection is currently the only way to have a true "home theater". The prices of some great units today is downright amazing. A unit like my 4805 would've cost several thousands less than 5 years ago, but can now be had for as low as $400-$550. Formerly $15,000-$20,000 CRT projector can now be had for a fraction of their original prices and throw an image that can even beat film due to having unrivaled black levels and contrast.

Last edited by Slayer2005; 10-26-06 at 02:17 PM.
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Old 10-26-06, 11:24 PM
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Well said and very true! My wife really wants a new TV for the living room to replace our very basic 32" CRT JVC. And while I found some good deals on a 47" HD set, I'm having a very hard time pulling the trigger when I know what type of PJ I can get for exactly the same money. Yes, I still have my theater room with my 94" screen, but that has as you said "spoiled me". I go looking at these $1,100-$1,400 LCD or DLP RP's and am very unimpressed as even compared to my poor old X1 on my DIY 94" WS, especially when pumping an HD OTA signal thru it.

BTW, you mention picking up the 4805 for $400 to $500, that is used, no? I'm going to upgrade my PJ, but if I do upgrade our living room TV 1st, I might push back getting an HD PJ till the spring. But if I could find a 4805 for $400 it might "get me by" till then.

Originally Posted by Slayer2005
The resolution does not change no matter how big you go. Digital tvs and projectors are fixed pixel devices. An 854x480p projector like my Infocus 4805 (which is not even close to my best projector for film material) will always have 409,920 pixels. As long as you don't sit too close where you can see the pixels it's fantastic. Looks like a giant plasma. CRT projector though (which are my other two) do not have pixels, so one can sit even closer with a CRT if they wish.

I (and other people I know of) find the picture (DVD and especially HD) to actually look better at 110" diagonal. You actually see the details you are missing with a small tv (even a 50" "big screen" tv). With a larger image (assuming you're do not sit too far away) you can resolve more of the resolution (details).

Of course with a 720p projector you can even go bigger than with a 480p projector at the same seating distance. Let's not forget that 1080p is often used on screens 40-50+ feet wide in digital cinemas. 1080p is only 6 times the resolution of DVDs and 2.25x 720p.

The actual image I seen in person are much better better than my camcorder can capture.

The Infocus 4805 (the one used for the screenshot) can now be had for about $400-$550 easily. It is not my main projector though. My CRT projectors blow it away with film material in the dark. When I first saw a Blu-Ray demo at Best Buy on a 42" Plasma it didn't looks close to many of my FFDShow processed dvds on my CRT projector at 110" (which is 4x the size of a 55" screen). It was hilarious and sad at the same time.

The comments my system has gotten is usually "Holy shit!". I've seen 65" CRT HDTVs in homes that can't touch my $700 CRT projector at 110" or my $200 CRT projector (which is better than my $700 one). Of course it helps that I am a much better calibrator than the average person. It pains me to see a 65" CRT HDTV in someone's home with an elevated black level that makes it look like a digital.

As HD material becomes more and more avaialable eventually I plan to move up to at least a 14.22' x 8' screen.

Ever since going with front projection big screen tvs have become laughable ripoffs in my eyes. I stopped using my 55" HDTV. Once you go big you don't go back.

Big screen tvs are home theater imitations. Front projection is currently the only way to have a true "home theater". The prices of some great units today is downright amazing. A unit like my 4805 would've cost several thousands less than 5 years ago, but can now be had for as low as $400-$550. Formerly $15,000-$20,000 CRT projector can now be had for a fraction of their original prices and throw an image that can even beat film due to having unrivaled black levels and contrast.
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Old 10-27-06, 12:01 PM
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Yeah, you can get a 4805 used or refurbished on Ebay pretty cheap. However, if buying used I'd avoid units with 10 hours or less. Actuallly I'd probably go with a unit with no less than 25 hours. People selling ones with so few hours makes me think they might have reset the lamp and ran it up just a little. I'd go with a refurb over a used unit, but the used ones are a bit cheaper.

I actually would like to have a new RPTV, but no way could I justify the cost when I could have an image 4 times or bigger for the same price or much less.
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Old 10-27-06, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Slayer2005
Yeah, you can get a 4805 used or refurbished on Ebay pretty cheap. However, if buying used I'd avoid units with 10 hours or less. Actuallly I'd probably go with a unit with no less than 25 hours. People selling ones with so few hours makes me think they might have reset the lamp and ran it up just a little. I'd go with a refurb over a used unit, but the used ones are a bit cheaper.

I actually would like to have a new RPTV, but no way could I justify the cost when I could have an image 4 times or bigger for the same price or much less.
Tough call. I don't know if I want to do a major or minor upgrade now. I really like the Panny 900U @ $1,300 or so after rebate. But I know there are several "newer" PJ's out and coming out. I don't think I can make the HD70 work in my set up (8' ceiling, must be ceiling mounted).

Humm....
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Old 11-02-06, 08:40 PM
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Slayer,
Got any tips on projector calibration? I don't think I have any reference materials to adjust my projector against. Anything available on the net for this? Maybe a jpeg image or something?
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Old 11-02-06, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by fmian
Slayer,
Got any tips on projector calibration? I don't think I have any reference materials to adjust my projector against. Anything available on the net for this? Maybe a jpeg image or something?

Try a calibration DVD like Avia or Video Essentials. One of those two will help you the most. I do mine by eye, but you really have to no what to look for to do that well. I do color grading/correcting so I am pretty good by eye.

Here is some things you should know that might help you better understand each control if you plan to do it by eye:

Contrast = White level (basically brightness level.)

Brightness = Black level (how bright or dark your blacks are)

RGB Gain = The Contrast for each individual color (red, green and blue). This is used to calibrate white balance to achieve a neutral white. If you can't tell what neutral white is try using a color bar pattern to calibrate. You will want to try to make Teal (half blue/half green) look neutral (ie not leaning towards blue or green noticeably). It should look sky blue. Yellow (half red/half yelllow); You'll want to make sure it's not leaning too much towards red or green by adjusting the green and red gain settings. Pink (half Blue/half Red); You'll want to make sure it's not leaning towards blue or red by adjusting blue and red. You never want to go too high with the gain settings to keep from clipping. You can't tell on all scenes when something clips. I find cartoon dvds are great for seeing when certain colors clip (blow out). I gneerally don't go over 5 or 6 points over the original starting position (which is 50/100).

RGB Bias = The Black level for each individual color. Using a fade to black in the dark is the easiest way to calibrate this. You basically want the fade to black to look as neutral as possible. You want it to look dark grey that doesn't noticeably tint towards red, green or blue.

Color Temperature: If your projector has a 6500K setting use it. Either than or Warm setting.

After you're done check the brightness and contrast against and make any adjustments needed. Check a greyscale pattern to see if it looks neutral. For extra shadow detail you can pump up the gamma a bit. You want to be able to see the difference between the last two shades of black on a greyscale pattern. Check skin tones on something shot to look more natural instead of something stylized (for example, do not use Sin City or Pitch Black). I use certain scenes in Veronica Mars, especially ones where I can see a photo of the same or a similar image on a magazine or something. Matching a magazine cover in person to say one online can be helpful to achieving a good calibration.

I'd get an Avia DVD though if were you.

Last edited by Slayer2005; 11-02-06 at 10:15 PM.
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Old 12-23-06, 11:41 PM
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i own the 61". it's awesome. its the best tv i've ever owned or seen. i dont care what anyone says.
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Old 12-24-06, 11:32 AM
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Last couple of days I have been at CompUSA and Costco. Both are pumping out those 62" sets!!! Actually I think one may have been a 63"!!!! The one at CompUSA I believe was a Mit and was like $1,600!!! Those things are huge!!! Square inch price has really come down on the largest sets!
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