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Wife wants a new living room TV!

Old 09-13-06, 05:47 PM
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Wife wants a new living room TV!

OK my wife wants me to starting looking for a deal to upgrade our living room TV (a 8 year+ old 32" CRT). This is both good and bad. It is good as I've didn't even want to bring that TV with us when we moved here two years ago. The bad, she is very picky about how our living room looks (you do walk into it from the front door). Also, bad is that because she thinks I did such a good job with the media room she really wants us to get a flat panel to hang on the wall and "I can hide all the wires just like in the media room". I was hoping to just pick up a DLP or LCD RP to throw on the current piece of furniture we have our TV on. But now must explore the flat panel option (but leave the piece of furniture in place to hold electronics). Also bad, she is use to and really likes our 94" WS set up in the media room so I doubt I could go as "small" as 37". Probably going to need at least a 42" or 50" panel.

My first big question is what is the field of view for these flat panels (I have no preference for Plasma or LCD, this will be mainly watching TV with some DVD watching, but no games). I'm thinking if I hang the TV on the wall it will have to be a little higher then normal, so do I need to get a tilt mount? The lowest part of the TV will have to be between 44"-46" off the ground (as an example my media room screen starts at 35" off the floor).

2nd, what sort of cables am I going to need to hide in the wall? I assume most new stuff has HMDI. It will be a simple set up here, Dishnetwork HD w/DVR and a DVD player. Of course a HT Receiver as well, but that shouldn't matter.

3rd, I understand that burn in is no longer an issue with Plasma, but are LCD's brighter? There is a wall of window at 90 degrees from where this will be. We do have curtains, but 90% of the time they are left open.

That should a least get me started....
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Old 09-13-06, 06:19 PM
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The nice thing about going from big tube to flat is how much room space you get back. And how you can jump to a bigger set without even changing the viewing angle. Bigger is better, of course.

1) Very wide viewing angle for both, plasma is better. I'm sure there are individual LCDs that still have a poor rating, so watch out for those, but overall they are vastly improved. Those tilt mounts are not as strong as basic ones, just something to keep in mind.

2) If you're efficient and have the right equipment, one HDMI cable. And one for power.

3) Plasma is brightest. A 50" plasma would be cheaper than an LCD of the same size. No doubt please you very much with a 720/768p resolution. And I'd still be cautious about burn-in, just not paralyzed in fear or stupid enough to leave it on pause for 3 weeks while you go on vacation.
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Old 09-13-06, 08:17 PM
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Well looks like the flat panels run $1,700 to $2,500 for anything I'm likely to buy.

The RP's (digital) run $1,200 to $2,000 for anything likely to buy.

So roughly $500 difference in prices. Maybe a little less then that at the 42" range and maybe a little more then that at the 50" range. Will have to see if my wife feels it is worth the difference to get it on a wall.

Yea, I'm ok with the whole burn in thing. This is not a TV that would be "left on". It is in our main living area so prime time is when most is watched.

So with one HDMI I could hook to a HDMI switcher or HT receiver and switch between HD and DVD? I mean if we are getting a new set got to get a new DVD player...right??

Well I don't want a tilting bracket. I think the look of a flat panel right up against the wall is what looks the best. But I want to make sure you can see it well.
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Old 09-13-06, 09:37 PM
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I don't agree with much of the advice above. (edit: though I'm sure it's well informed and well intentioned)

Given the lighting situation in your room, LCD should be a better bet. Plasma is not "brighter" than LCD, in fact, just the opposite. Plasma sets are also prone to glare in bright rooms since they have 2 panes of glass, though at 90 degrees, you should be OK. Burn in isn't so much a factor anymore, but you should also consider that plasmas are heavier and have shorter life spans (i.e. picture quality degrades over time and LCD does not)

So at 42 inches, I think LCD has the clear advantage IMO...anything bigger than that, and plasma still has a fairly strong price advantage (still generally limited to 720 though). Plasma still has an advantage in a nice controlled (i.e. dark) room...but in a bright family room, I'd look at LCDs.

Bottom line is that there's always a trade off. I definitely recommend spending some time on the AVS forum or the home theater forum rather than DVD talk...at least for this sort of thing.

Disclosure: I own neither LCD or plasma but will probably buy a 50" LCD when the price and the black levels converge on a point that works for me.

Last edited by chess; 09-13-06 at 10:31 PM.
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Old 09-13-06, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by chess
I don't agree with much of the advice above.

Given the lighting situation in your room, LCD should be a better bet. Plasma is not "brighter" than LCD, in fact, just the opposite. Plasma sets are also prone to glare in bright rooms since they have 2 panes of glass, though at 90 degrees, you should be OK. Burn in isn't so much a factor anymore, but you should also consider that plasmas are heavier and have shorter life spans (i.e. picture quality degrades over time and LCD does not)

So at 42 inches, I think LCD has the clear advantage IMO...anything bigger than that, and plasma still has a fairly strong price advantage (still generally limited to 720 though). Plasma still has an advantage in a nice controlled (i.e. dark) room...but in a bright family room, I'd look at LCDs.

Bottom line is that there's always a trade off. I definitely recommend spending some time on the AVS forum or the home theater forum rather than DVD talk...at least for this sort of thing.

Disclosure: I own neither LCD or plasma but will probably buy a 50" LCD when the price and the black levels converge on a point that works for me.
Oh yea. I'm familar with AVS. But I'm not ready to jump in over there. Those people are CRAZY. Yea very knowledgable, but scary! Don't get me wrong, incredible amount of information, but I'm still trying to narrow things a bit.

Over here in DVDTalk land, people are nice. No big fights or insults (well so long as you stay out of the HD Talk area), and I have been around well long enough to know who to trust. Spiky is in my will! (course he gets my X1).

In my research so far, it looks like there is still a large price difference between the 42" and 50" plasmas (to few LCD's to make that statement).

I really like the looks, versitility and reviews of the PHD8UK, Panasonics (pro series). The 42" model isn't to bad, but the 50" is pretty much going to be $2,500 which is, I'm sure more then we will want to spend. Looks like you have to go "off brand" to get a 50" plasma below $2,000.

It very well may come down to what is more important to my wife, picture size or hanging on the wall. I see Visio, Zenith and Westinghouse you might get a 50" below $2,000 but Panasonic, Pioneer, Sony is all going to set you back in the $2,500 range. But a 50" RP (digital) will be under $2,000 even with the brand names.
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Old 09-13-06, 10:30 PM
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Yeah, 42" seems to be the upper limit for LCDs right now...at least at any sort of reasonable price...and I'm not quite content with the appearance of either plasma or LCD just yet.

I still have a rear projection SDTV, a 61" Sony that I bought in 2000. It still has a lovely picture and will probably meet my needs for another year or two. I'm just the anal retentive sort who researches these things way way ahead of time and am willing to wait for the product that's right for me...and I've spent a lot of time lately researching exactly what you seem to be asking.

I looked at HDTVs when I bought mine back in 2K, but I was pretty unimpressed...plus content was limited...plus I wanted a big ass screen. But I went round and round about it in my head since my main TV is a long term investment.

Anyway, I've been lurking like crazy in AVS and HTF and wandering around the flat panels at every store I go to lately and I will probably be in a very similar market as you in a year or two (big TV for well lit family room). I'm leaning toward LCD, but I need the black levels and motion blur to improve a bit on the bigger sets...and I want the price to come down about 20-30%.

I'm guessing I'll end up with a 50" Sony (goofy company, but they make terrific TVs) or possibly a Sharp or Samsung. A 42" screen, even a widescreen, would just be too big of a step down from my 61".
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Old 09-13-06, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by chess
but you should also consider that plasmas are heavier and have shorter life spans (i.e. picture quality degrades over time and LCD does not)
This has also changed. Plasma will now outlast most people.

I've never really considered reflection. That could certainly be a problem, I suppose. I also have neither of these technologies at home. Not at that size.

Plasma's resolution is the biggest issue in my mind. I wouldn't consider a plasma under 50" due to resolution, and wouldn't consider a flat LCD over 40 or so due to price. Obviously others would have different needs/wants, perhaps.

RPTV changes the whole dynamic, if that is on your list. You are used to an X1, so a recent DLP with high speed wheel should work if those prices fit. RP DLPs drive me nuts with RBE every time I see them, i think they are generally worse than FP, but you are probably immune. Pricing is very similar to RP LCD.

People do seem to love those Westinghouse 1080p LCD flat panels. What, about $1700 at 42".



I could use an X1 for work. I sit right in front of a blue wall, it could be my monitor right on the wall! About 50" would work, i'd be about 6' away. My coworker was moderately annoyed when I got a 19" and his is still 17. Hah, he'll see!
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Old 09-13-06, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Spiky
Plasma's resolution is the biggest issue in my mind. I wouldn't consider a plasma under 50" due to resolution, and wouldn't consider a flat LCD over 40 or so due to price. Obviously others would have different needs/wants, perhaps.
Yeah, I would consider that important. However, he did mention that he has a media room, so it sounds as if this TV is going to be more for casual watching as opposed to the "reference" image in the media room. Resolution may not be as important in this case.
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Old 09-13-06, 11:43 PM
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I took some measurements,

Our main couch in our living room is right at 14' from the wall. Considering my 2nd row of seating in my media room is 14.5' and that is w/a 94" screen (and my wife always sits in the front row at 11.5 feet or even at 10 feet in a love seat), I'm thinking size is going to help point me in a direction. I just don't think we would be happy with 42" screen.

Now I really don't want to spend $2,500-$3,000 (I didn't spend that for my entire media room!). It would be nice to keep it under $2,000. So in a 50" size that is going to be,

some of the 2nd tier brand Plasmas (LCD is out, as you said Spiky, mainly due to cost). Something like the Zenith, Westinghouse, Visio, etc.

or

LCD or DLP RP from the big boys, Samsung, Panasonic, Sony, etc.

Hanging on the wall would be cool and look good in the room. I have no doubt after what all I went through in our media room that I can handle mounting, running wires, etc myself. So it would indeed look sharp. But it is such a better value on the RP's. In looking around I saw a Panasonic 52" LCD RP for about $1,500! Incredible! And like you say, some of the Samsung DLP RP's are just as good of a deal.

I'm not worried about the plasma aging. One of the reasons I'm hesitant to spend $3,000 on a TV is I don't for a second believe I would keep a TV 10-15 years. Heck it would probably be replaced (or moved to a bedroom) in 6-7 years. I just think something like TV's is going to change that much, that soon.

I might make a Costco run tomorrow to see what they have. That seems to be the thing right now. Buy one of the 2nd tier players a Costco since they have the forever return policy in case of problems.
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Old 09-13-06, 11:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Spiky
This has also changed. Plasma will now outlast most people.
I've no doubt that plasmas have gotten better. I'm hearing numbers in the upper range of 50-60,000 hours...which is plenty long.

The concern in my mind about plasmas is the basis of the technology relying on a vacuum...LCD just seems like a much more robust and reliable technology with its only drawback being that it's not so great in a dark room.

At any rate, I didn't intend to derail the thread into a LCD vs. Plasma debate. They both have limitations and drawbacks, but I believe that each has a setting where it's the clear choice. Big screen for a nice dark movie room: Plasma. 42" and under screen for family room: LCD. I also believe that LCD is infringing on plasma's territory much more than vice versa.
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Old 09-14-06, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Sdallnct
I took some measurements,

Our main couch in our living room is right at 14' from the wall. Considering my 2nd row of seating in my media room is 14.5' and that is w/a 94" screen (and my wife always sits in the front row at 11.5 feet or even at 10 feet in a love seat), I'm thinking size is going to help point me in a direction. I just don't think we would be happy with 42" screen.
...
Our HT seating is about the same distance as yours and the screen is about the same size too. We've found that our 42" plasma (Panasonic TH-42PX60U) is fine for general TV viewing in our family room though. Since you're shopping at Costco, you might consider giving a good 42" set a try to see what you think. Heck, you've been living with 32", so you'ld still be getting a bigger image. If you find it really is too small for your space, they'll happily let you return it.

On the DLP side, I really like the Samsung family. The HL-S5086W can be had for about $1500, which really is a better value than any plasma. My ony real problem with them was off center viewing. RPTV's still just don't do a good job at projecting an image that can be enjoyed from a wide seating angle.


BTW - our plasma doesn't get direct sun light, but we do have fairly bright lights in the room. I generally don't notice any more glare that I did with a CRT based TV.

Last edited by Dead; 09-14-06 at 12:15 PM.
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Old 09-14-06, 12:29 PM
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Boy, I don't know Sdallnct. Maybe you should invest $500 on drapes, move the X1 to the LR, and pick up the HD70 for the HT. That's only $1500, plus some sort of screen.

But more seriously, to use Drexl's comment: Maybe size shouldn't be that important to this particular TV. Do you do any serious viewing in there? Maybe think about how you use it rather than just where the couch is. I know in my LR, I'm usually cleaning or wandering around rather than sitting for 2 hours to watch, and my 27" has been more than adequate. If I have time to sit, I have time to fire up the PJ.
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Old 09-14-06, 03:55 PM
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My recommendation is the 50'' Vizio plasma from Costco. Excellent reviews in AVS. I think it cost $1999, maybe less in Costco. I have had the 42'' since December 2004 with no problems. A lot of SDTD, HDTV, Xbox, Xbox360, etc. played in that plasma and no issues.
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Old 09-14-06, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Dead
Our HT seating is about the same distance as yours and the screen is about the same size too. We've found that our 42" plasma (Panasonic TH-42PX60U) is fine for general TV viewing in our family room though. Since you're shopping at Costco, you might consider giving a good 42" set a try to see what you think. Heck, you've been living with 32", so you'ld still be getting a bigger image. If you find it really is too small for your space, they'll happily let you return it.

On the DLP side, I really like the Samsung family. The HL-S5086W can be had for about $1500, which really is a better value than any plasma. My ony real problem with them was off center viewing. RPTV's still just don't do a good job at projecting an image that can be enjoyed from a wide seating angle.


BTW - our plasma doesn't get direct sun light, but we do have fairly bright lights in the room. I generally don't notice any more glare that I did with a CRT based TV.
I think I'm going to have to take her and go show her the size difference. But now that she has seen a 94" screen in our media room I'm afraid she has turned into a "size queen" -LOL-

Yup, the Samsung's look really nice. I see they have a 46" model in the $1,200 range!

But one issue I have with an RP TV is that if I get a 46"-52" RP set it will be to physically big to do anything with if I decide to change it out in 3, 4 or 5 years. However, if I got a panel TV, if I decided to change it out no matter the size I could find a wall to put it on in the bar, bedroom, whatever.
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Old 09-14-06, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Spiky
Boy, I don't know Sdallnct. Maybe you should invest $500 on drapes, move the X1 to the LR, and pick up the HD70 for the HT. That's only $1500, plus some sort of screen.

But more seriously, to use Drexl's comment: Maybe size shouldn't be that important to this particular TV. Do you do any serious viewing in there? Maybe think about how you use it rather than just where the couch is. I know in my LR, I'm usually cleaning or wandering around rather than sitting for 2 hours to watch, and my 27" has been more than adequate. If I have time to sit, I have time to fire up the PJ.
Don't tempt me! But this really is not the room for it. 10 foot ceilings with no attic space. And besides the wall of window that are at 90 degrees, behind the seating area (about 25 feet behind the couches) is are some floor to ceiling windows that we have no covers on!

But you do bring up several good points. This will not be critical viewing going on. Tho my wife just read an article and told me "all her favorite shows will be in HD this year". So 42" might be enough. Typically even on my wife's favorite shows she does not just sit and watch. But is still helping kids with homework, surfing the net on a laptop, getting lunches ready, ironing, etc.

However, in regards to the PJ upgrade in my media room. If I got something along the lines of the 46" DLP in the $1,200 range + a 720p PJ for the media room in the $1,300 range would be less then a Panasonic or Pioneer 50" plasma!
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Old 09-14-06, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Sdallnct
Oh yea. I'm familar with AVS. But I'm not ready to jump in over there. Those people are CRAZY. Yea very knowledgable, but scary! Don't get me wrong, incredible amount of information, but I'm still trying to narrow things a bit.
Check out http://www.hometheaterspot.com

Not quite as many members as AVS, but I find it a lot "friendlier".

We bought a 42" Sony LCD in May, and I've been extremely happy with it. I was never a Sony fan, so it took a "leap of faith", but I read a lot of reviews with very few negative comments. We also got a great deal due to some Memorial Day sales - Sears price matched a great Circuit City price with 18 months interest free (we already had the Sears card). I ended up buying an extended warranty directly through Sony - much cheaper than what Sears offered.

The 42" LCD was lighter than the 25" TV we replaced!
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Old 09-14-06, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by shelland
Check out http://www.hometheaterspot.com

Not quite as many members as AVS, but I find it a lot "friendlier".

We bought a 42" Sony LCD in May, and I've been extremely happy with it. I was never a Sony fan, so it took a "leap of faith", but I read a lot of reviews with very few negative comments. We also got a great deal due to some Memorial Day sales - Sears price matched a great Circuit City price with 18 months interest free (we already had the Sears card). I ended up buying an extended warranty directly through Sony - much cheaper than what Sears offered.

The 42" LCD was lighter than the 25" TV we replaced!
So you got the LCD RP? Yea, we looked at those two years ago when they were still $2,500!!
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Old 09-14-06, 08:16 PM
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I got the Sony 42" Model 42A10 and I love it.
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Old 09-14-06, 08:24 PM
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This seems like a great deal. What am I missing?

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-HL-S46...807310?ie=UTF8

Samsung HL-S4666W 46" DLP HDTV $1185 w/free shipping (maybe no tax either).

Physically it is a good looking set. So my wife should be happy. Not quite a 50" size, but close and won't take over the room. DLP and I know my wife is comfortable with that technology from our X1. Lots of connections including 2 HDMI's, components, etc.

And they have the Samsung 42" plasma for 1650 w/free shipping

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-HP-S42...807310?ie=UTF8

I'm going out of town this weekend to help a friend move. I might have to send her out TV looking without me! (She knows better then to buy).

But if I could keep this TV around $1,300, I sure wouldn't feel bad about spending $1,300ish for a new PJ....
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Old 09-14-06, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Sdallnct
This seems like a great deal. What am I missing?

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-HL-S46...807310?ie=UTF8
...
As long as you don't need to have a fairly wide viewing angle, I don't think you are missing anything with that set... especially at that price! It would leave you with a nice little chunk to put toward that projector.
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Old 09-14-06, 11:57 PM
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Nice price!
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Old 09-15-06, 10:20 AM
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I can't find a review on the HL-S4666W (DLP) Samsung. But it does seem to be a new/current model for '06. All of Amazon's feedback are positive but one - and looks like he just got a bad one.

I keep going back and forth. I think having the lastest techonogy on the DLP (what now 4th generation) would be great and the price can't be beat. On the other hand, a flat panel hanging on the wall with no wires showing would also be nice.

Looks like Best Buy carries the Samsung, so going to send my wife to check it out and and also have her look at the 42" flat panels to see if she thinks it would be big enough. We currently have a 32" SD TV for a 42" WS would give, what about 36" for SD?
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Old 09-15-06, 10:27 AM
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42" 16:9 gives a 34.32" diag 4:3 in the middle.
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Old 09-15-06, 10:21 PM
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Well I had to go to CompUSA to pick up a charger cord for my phone and took my wife to show her the TV (yea, somewhat limited selection, but I wanted to get some things narrowed dow).

We both agreed, for where we would want to hang the TV on the wall, a 50" flat panel is physically to big. Particularly at the height we would have to hang it. So if we are going to hang on the wall, a 42" is as big as we would want to go.

However, she did like the looks of the digital RP's. And for whatever reason did not think they "looked as big" as the flat panels. And she really wants as big a screen as possible. Soooo....

I tried to take her to Circuit City, but they closed early as they are moving this weekend. We went in the Home Depot Expo to look at something and believe it or not they had the very 46" Samsung I kind of link. She also liked it! Except, she really wanted all black, she didn't like the silver part at the bottom with the speakers.

She did ask an interesting question, that I don't know: Can you use the speakers on the TV as your center channel for your surround system? I'll have to see if I can find some info, but that would probably sell her if I could get rid of our center speaker on our surround system. Tho, I know I can get creative and hide it....(the front mains I have hidden, and right now I'm not using surrounds).
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Old 09-16-06, 03:08 AM
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You can use the TV speakers. But it isn't great. They don't sound the same and are likely going to have different power ratings than the rest of your speakers. The differences will kill off your imaging.
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