Infocus Screenplay 4805 and DirectTV HD question
 

I've got DirectTV and an Infocus Screenplay 4805. It's currently connected with an S-Video cable. The Screenplay 4805 is not a true HD projector, but does have component input. Should I upgrade my DirectTV to an DirectTV HD or would I not notice that much difference.

Thank you all.

Well given the fact that your projector supports 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i you can certainly do it.

I am not sure whether you want to spend the extra money for the Direct TV HD package but I would strongly suggest that you go component for DVD's.

I believe the difference would be very noticeable.

For what it is worth I have a Sharp 10K projector and the Direct TV HD package and an OTA HD antenna and I am very pleased with the pictures I get from my system.

Actually, I am going component for DVD's.

I guess I don't know as much about my projector as I thought. Thanks for the info.

4805 + HD looks awesome. The 4805 was the first home theater i actually got to check out at length, and after its calibrated and displaying true HD content, it looks absolutely gorgeous. I have the H31 which is super similar to the 4805, and i watch HD footage on it all the time, looks absolutely astonishing for being a 480p projector.

I had a similar setup, but with the X1. When I decided to go to HD, I switched to Dishnetwork. I had the everything package with Direct, and got the same with Dish. BUT, the everything package with dish included the HD channels and was within $2 of the everything package with direct with no HD channels. And Dish had a lot more HD channels.

I also upgraded the projector at the same time, so I don't know how the quality would be, but I know that watching movies was a hell of a lot better than the tv with s-video, so I think you could expect at least that much difference, or a little more with HD programming.

You should go with the HD. Even DirecTV's HDLite channels will probably look decent on that EDTV. Certainly will be an improvement over SD channels. If you can, get your local channels via antenna, the Directv HD boxes can receive from antenna, too. Almost guaranteed to be a better picture, and no potential rain fade.

HD on a 480p device looks better than a well-mastered 480p DVD (my experience with my Infocus X1).

Standard def TV looks waaay worse than 480p DVD

I don't really watch TV much (except for TV-on-DVD) so I don't care. I've got my locals in HD via a QAM cable tuner if I really want to watch 'em.

If you like TV enough that you want your TV channels to look better than an excellent 480p DVD, do it. Otherwise, don't.

Yup, said it many times myself on my X1, HD is just awesome (compared to SD and a noticeable improvement over my DVDp).

My story,

I read over at AVS were going on and on about how good HD looked on the X1. I didn't believe it, but the thread got longer and longer and everyone that tried it raved about it. So did a little research and found out I could get and old Voom box for OTA HD pretty cheap. Since I lived in a city where I could get a good signal on all local channels I figured it would be good to have, so I got one.

The PQ was night and day difference then Dish Network SD. And even better then DVDp. Football games, CSI, Basketball games, all awesome in HD. In fact I'm now starting to research what I can get Dish Network HD upgrade for.

I don't have the technical knowledge to understand why it is better and why it is SO much better, but I really don't care....it is just good....

You know, ive seen the Sony Ruby twice so far, and honestly, i prefer the pop and vibrance of my h31 to what i saw of the ruby. Not to mention the insane price tag on bulbs and how quickly it dimms out (ive read 2-400 hours till its very dimm). I would never put my $$$ into a ruby. I think once you go 720p with a good projector, the difference between the images are going to become less and less noticable. Ontop of that, ive read many threads on AVS where they had home theater partys and did tests with 10+ people in the room with a VERY high end 720p projector and a Infocus 4805. 90% of the people couldnt tell which projector was projecting at any time, they both looked great. Thats why i dont think people give these nice 480p projectors enough credit, they're truely some AMAZING equipment when fed high def. My 2 cents anyway.

p.s. - Im already considering upgrading to a Panasonic AE900U, its 720p, priced right, looks great and has HDMI right out of the box. I just have to wait till CEDIA to see if the prices drop even more. I think once i get that projector, i wont even care for a 1080p projector for a long, long time. And ill be able to do a 110" screen in the same distance as my H31 now. Damn the upgrading bug.

Whoever couldn't tell the difference is blind or standing away about 2.5-3x the width of the screen. If 90% couldn't tell the differnece between 720p and 480p with an HD signal than why spend the money on a 720p projector when you could get a 1024x576p DLP with higher contrast for less than the price of an AE900? It sure closes the resolution gap a bit, but retains the qualitiys of DLP. HC900u is a great one.

Also, if the you preferred the H31 over the Ruby you almost certainly saw a poor setup. I read about one guy who saw one terrible Ruby setup and one superb one. Obviously optimal environment is important too.

Lowend DLPs like the 4805 (I own one) and H31 are quite nice, but have huge flaws as well compared to CRT projection or the Ruby. Dithering is a big problem. Black level is nice but very weak compare to CRT and not great compared to the Ruby either.

If you upgrade to the AE900 prepare for a drop in native contrast. You seem to like brightness. If I were you I'd get the HD72 in that case. If you want better quality in the similar price range I'd get the Mitsubishi HC3000U. Very nice unit. Actually you could make a nice leap in resolution for about $1,000 by getting the HC900 (HC900U), a 1024x576p DLP. It has higher native contrast than the AE900, which uses tricks to claim ridicuously high contrast ratios.

I realise under 100% ideal conditions the ruby is supposed to rock, but ive seen good 480p projectors out of the box projectiong onto a white wall look spectacular, it should be even more so for a $9,999 Ruby. Thats kinda what im trying to get accross, im sure its a awesome projector, but there will be a lot better comming soon and at a LOT better price.

How much contrast difference will there be with the AE900U and my H31? The specs are higher then the H31 in everyway, i didnt know id be taking a contrast hit. And i cant go to a H72, my room is too small and id be limited to a 86" screen. Im doing 92" right now with the H31 and with the AE900U i can do 110" in the same spot. I need a very short throw, my entertainment room is only 10x12 which limited what projectors im able to use.

Yeah, you'll be taking a contrast hit. How noticeable it is depends on how perceptive you are I suppose. Some people are really disappointed and others find it pretty close to the same. So, it depnds on the person.

Spec wise the AE900 is higher, but its native contrast is probably about 1300:1 while the 4805 clocks in at 2200:1 (the H31 is probably about the same). It uses iris tricks and stuff to claim 5500:1 (just like the Z4). They basically measure white with the irises off and then full black with them on. I wouldn't be surprised if they maximized the contrast while measuring white. If a 4805 or H31 used the same tricks they could claim over 7000:1 most likely. Certain DLPs uses similar tricks, but they also start of with a higiher native contrast.

The AE900's blacks aren't quite as good as the 4805 or H31 (and definitely not higher end DLPs like the HC3000) and neither is shadow detail. The color accuracy will be better on the Panny though. The H31 tends to have orangey reds. The Panny will have no SDE which is very nice. The extra detail is nice too.

There is a $1,500 DLP coming out sometime soon (possibly this year). You might want to hold of, because it wlll almost certainly be better and will push down the prices of LCDs like the AE900.

So in conclusion, you might find it to be a worthwile upgrade for the resolution and you may not notice much of a contrast drop, but it's also possible you will notice it. If you do get one make sure they have a good return policy (Costco is highly recommended).

Excellent info. Appreciate the responce. Yes, i was about to upgrade, then realised, CEDIA is 5 weeks away. Once that happens, there should be a drop on the AE900U by then. I only buy from costco, in fact, ive boughten 2 different projector setups from them. My first H27 overheated out of nowhere, so i had to return it and order another. Was very simple. My dad came over and loved it, so i gave him my H27 setup (its in his living room now), and i bought a H31 setup.

I forgot to mention im using a Graywolf II 92" Screen that has a 1.8 gain. It makes a TREMENDOUS difference IMO, when you're in the cone area. Just standing up, then keeping an eye on the projector while sitting down, is absolutely amazing. I cant beleive 1.8 gain makes such a difference. Its why im a HUGE fan of the graywolf, other then the PITA shelf mounting required for it. Thats the biggest negative IMO. If i were to upgrade to a AE900U, id possibly want to do a DIY 110" Screen, but i really, really want it retrorefelctive like the graywolf, is that at all possible? Ive been searching the DIY threads with no luck. Id even be glad to purchase a 120" screen without the frame from graywolf if thats possible to make my own.

Man, tellin ya, Projectors are the funnest project ive ever taken on, it enhances whatever you do on it.

Yeah, projectors are awesome. My sister thinks I'm insane. I now have two CRT projectors and one DLP (4805). lol. I run everything on a Torus (curved vertically/horizontally) that has a gain as high as 10. I don't think you can make a DIY retroreflective screen yet, unless you pieced together more than one manufactured screen.

Here's my CRT in action on my 9' Torus. Those inky blacks is why I LOVE LOVE LOVE CRT. Native contrast of about 15,000:1 (I have a new one that I think has 20,000:1).

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/4...65copy1qb8.gif

http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/878...75copy1qh9.gif

I hear nothing but praise from CRT owners, but everytime i look, i dont see any basic FAQ for someone whos decently knowledged in Digital Projection to get into CRT Projection. Then i read that most of the CRT Projectors bought today are used and all need to be refurbed and that there is a steep learning curved, and i hear 1080p is possible with 9", but i have no clue what that means lol. I assume that is the size of each of the 3 lenses? Im also curious about distance it will need, but i assume it has no zoom, so you need a LOT of room to get a good size pic going. Got a link to a good FAQ with these types of questions? Ive been at AVS's CRT forum without any resolve. I am almost posotive its not for me (complicated setup isnt a problem, but distance is), so i didnt push the issue too hard, but it would be nice to get more of an idea of whats involved.

You can never have too much information.

CRT projectors have no zoom, but they generally have short throw compared to most digitals. A lot of CRTs have the lenses about 1.5x the width of the screen away. From lense to screen my CRT is 12' away from my 8' wide screen (near 9' diagonal).

Most CRTs are used, but this means next to nothing as long as you get a set in good condition with clean tubes from a reputable seller. CRTs are built like tanks. They are made to last much much much longer than digitals, which are designed to be pretty much disposable (my first digital, an X1, failed just before my 2 year warranty was up. I got lucky). A lot of CRTs are also very user repairable (infact, I just made a non working one start working again by getting a part online. All thanks to the help on AVSForum's CRT section). If a digital fails out of warranty you're screwed. The fact that they are used keeps their prices at a fraction of the original cost. My CRTs retailed for about $17,000 each. I got my first on for just $700 (a 7" ES focus unit. There are better units though). It continues to blow me away. Many DVDs on it with FFDShow sharpening blow away the Blu-Ray demo I saw on a screen a fraction of the size (a 42" plasma).

There is a steep learning curve if you compare it to a digital, but it's definitely overstated to intimidate. I was once very intimidated by my first CRT (a $700 7" ECP 4500+), but I learned it (www.curtpalme.com has all kinds of setup guides for most CRTs) and it became fun and easy to setup. My new NEC is considered to have the steepest learning curve of them all. Even after owning an ECP for over 2 years this set intimidated the hell out of me because it seemed so much more complex. With the help of Curt's online guide it became pretty easy and now once again I feel comfortable with the set and setting one up. It's just fun to setup and tinker with a CRT, especially when you're rewarded with a fantastic picture quality and you are the reason it looks as good as it does. Some sets are fairly simple to setup (like an ECP). Some have more depth and more options (NECs), but by reading the setup manuals it becomes very easy.

9" CRT means it uses 9" Tubes (CRTs, Cathode Ray Tubes). No lamps here. Long lasting tubes that will almost certainly outlast several $300-$400 digital lamps. The bigger the tubes the higher the resolving power.

Here's a CRT Primer on Curt Palme's website (The best person to buy from, great guy.):
http://www.curtpalme.com/CRTPrimer.shtm

Curt has CRTs that range from $400-$5,000+. You can get units for as low as $400 that will beat all digitals in important areas. I personally would recommend an 8" EM Focus unit. Though even a decent 7" set will rock your world. Some of th best deals he has is 9" ES focus units that cost a fraction of what 9" EM focus units do. I'm talking $400-$600 compared to $3,500-$5000+ difference. The ES focus units don't retain all of their 100% focus for all of their life, but they are capable of stunning images and higher resolution than 7" ES units (which is what I have).

I don't know if I'd recommend an NEC to a beginner, but man they use color filtered lenses and the reds blew me away. They looked great on my ECP, but now they look even better (greens too).

CRT = Best Bang For Your Buck. They're not for everyone though (mainly people who like 100% plug and play and don't want a more difficult first setup. Once setup though the first time it becomes pretty much plug and play.).

I'd do a CRT for a dedicated HT room, but my X1 is mounted in the living room for now (no money for a dedicated garage-to-HT project).

I'm personally a big fan of CRTs... love my 24" widescreen CRT computer monitor :D

BTW, I just discovered that a Mitsubishi HD1000U 720p DarkChip 2 DLP w/Brilliant Color technology can be had for $1425 total at www.projectorpeople.com. Some guy on AVSForum ranked it ahead of the HD72. This means there is a true 720p DLP on the market that is a better deal than the AE900/Z4 LCDs while also being higher quality. I've find it as low as $1350. Sounds like a superb deal.

Im going to do more research on a CRT but since the room is 10x12, i doubt i could do the same 92" screen i do now, and i just want it to get bigger from here.

I did some comparing of my H31 to this mitsu, it has even less contrast. But using the projector calculator, i can do the same 92" from the same distance im at now. So thats pretty neat. However, ive read nothing about this projector, its always the 3000 in the news with people loving that one. Man, i just want Cedia to come and go so we can see where the dust settles and see what costco gets in stock!

The H31 doesn't truly have a 3000:1 contrast. It is very possible the contrast is a tad lower than HD1000U. The bad part about digitals is you don't always know who is exaggerrating their contrast ratio by measuring when not calibrated for film. Calibrated contrast is what matters. The contrast of the H31 is about the same as the 4805. Around 2200:1 calibrated. The HD1000u is brighter than the H31 and has Brilliant Color technology whichi is nice. The thing about DLPs with DarkChip 2 is most of them you can barely tell the contrast apart. You're not going to see much of a difference at all, if any.

92" wide or diagonal? A CRT would need about 10' from lense to screen for a 92" diagonal 16:9 image. At the same distance it could do larger 4:3 image. I'm not sure which models do, but some CRTs have an even shorter throw (1.3 (distance): 1 (screen width)).

The review I read from a forum member ranked the new DLPs like this:

HC3000U
IN76
HD1000U
HD72

92" Diagonally. Ok, i read that entire page and you know, this is what ive gathered.

Its like having a Plasma Monitor with VGA in, everything has to be transcoded in. With that said, its not hard to get high res stuff playing on it and looking good. The downside is, of course, you have to go through so many hoops to get the setup right. Also, 9" is not cheap. And 1080p is a key factor. I honestly appreciate the link, i learned a lot and now i know if anyone asks about a CRT, i can give them a decent answer to its pros and cons.

It does not look like its for me tho. Maybe im getting old, but the challenge of setting one up seems insanely tedious, and my time is better spent elsewhere. A digital projector seems the way to go fo me at least. I use my projector for PC duties and gaming mostly, i do watch HD films but not enough to want the Deep, Deep blacks that the CRT will give. Im actually really happy with the H31 blacks, they arent perfect, but they are more then acceptable to me.

Yeah, they're not for everyone. Infact, I'd say they're only for a small minority of people.

However, it has been learned that a highened 8" CRT can resolve 1080p. Not sure which ones, but it was recently proven on the CRT forum. Definitely a great way to save money by not going with a 9"er.

I saw that post as well, but most were just confused by the picture vs being excited when it first went up, not sure whats it like now. I wish CRT Projector technology was as cheap and advanced as digitals are now, but theres no chance of that happening due to the size of the things, and how expensive the parts inside are. Im definetly happy with the H31 now, and once 1080p is 2500 or less, im there. HD looks so fantastic to me as it is on this projector, that literally, theres nothing that makes me jump out and yell that i need to jump to a higher res... yet. That panasonic AE1100U with 1080p is sounding mighty delicious! DAMN YOU CEDIA!

Is Costco still selling the Sharp Z2000 for $1500? This would be another killer deal for 720 DLP. It's an earlier DC2, but still has excellent contrast and other typical specs like the 4805, HC3000 and other DC2s. Plus, it has high-end features like motorized zoom and focus. If it wasnt for placement issues and me wanting to try LCD, I probably would've picked this up instead of the AE900. I basically consider this PJ to be an interim until 1080 fits my budget, that's why I went with Costco, too.

There is definitely a difference between the AE900 and my former Toshiba MT700 DC2 DLP. But it isn't horribly bad, there are good points in favor of each technology. The dynamic iris of the 900 gets a little tiresome to achieve its best specs because it is noisy and the change is often visible onscreen. So I usually turn that off if I'm watching something very bright/dark like LOTR or black and white shows, leaving the blacks less black. But the 900 has clearly better upconversion. NTSC signals are excellent. Easiest way to see this is with older video games. And what little SDE I could see from 5' away is gone, just gone. (the MT700 was quite good for limiting SDE) It's hard to define pixel structure at 1' away from my 90" screen.

My main concern going to the 900 was that i wouldnt have the POP i have now from my h31, and all these reports i hear of the iris and how the blacks arent as black, etc.. I wonder how much of an improvement am i getting, other then no SDE? Its why i want to wait for the 1080p's to battle it out and then pick the one that arrives at costco lol.