DVD & Home Theater Gear Discuss DVD and Home Theater Equipment.

HDTV w/ Non HD Sources

Old 07-31-06, 12:37 AM
  #1  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 83
HDTV w/ Non HD Sources

I've been looking for a decent 27" TV upgrade recently and have been eyeing this HD set at Best Buy since its <$100 more than any SDTV set I'd be buying.
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1130981881933
Now my sources for this Tv will be an original XBOX and a cheapo dvd player, will these look much better on an HDTV than an SDTV? Could DVDs look even worse? I've heard of people gettin HDTVs and end up with worse pictures than their standard tvs because of their sources, never really got the specifics of that.

Obviously I'd prefer HD so the set isnt somewhat obselete in the next few years, but I'm going for my best options for right now.

Any info/opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks folks.

-Mike
BustaCones is offline  
Old 07-31-06, 10:25 AM
  #2  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 6,831
It is certainly possible that quality could be worse, esp since that isn't a high-end TV. But at 27", it may not be an issue if you sit far enough away. It also depends on what your old TV is. If you are upgrading from a cheap 20", I don't think you'll be too disappointed.
Spiky is offline  
Old 07-31-06, 12:06 PM
  #3  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 83
well im upgrading from a 19" Magnavox from about 16 years ago, so just about anything I get will definitely be an improvement.

my logic is im better of with a low end hdtv than a medium quality sdtv, although i could easily be wrong
BustaCones is offline  
Old 07-31-06, 12:24 PM
  #4  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Mopower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: The Janitor's closet in Kinnick Stadium
Posts: 15,726
Since it's a CRT the picture should look the same as on a SDTV for Non HD sources. When people say the picture looks worse it's usual from a Plasma, LCD, RPTV where the resolution is too high for SDTV and SDTV sources look grainy and fuzzy.
Mopower is offline  
Old 07-31-06, 12:49 PM
  #5  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
The Bus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: New York
Posts: 54,865
I'm surprised your Magnavox has lasted that long.

I would rather get a cheap-ish HDTV than a medium SDTV. At the price you're paying, by the time that TV doesn't work so well anymore, HDTVs will be near the same price of SDTVs. Borrow or rent one of the "setup" DVDs like Avia or Video Essentials and your cheap-HDTV will probably look better than many non-cheap HDTVs that were never properly setup.
The Bus is offline  
Old 07-31-06, 01:02 PM
  #6  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Drexl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 16,001
Originally Posted by Mopower
Since it's a CRT the picture should look the same as on a SDTV for Non HD sources. When people say the picture looks worse it's usual from a Plasma, LCD, RPTV where the resolution is too high for SDTV and SDTV sources look grainy and fuzzy.
Yeah, the issue is due to the TV not having a good quality scaler.

LCD and plasma displays have a fixed number of pixels that make up its native resolution. Everything has to match or be scaled to match that. CRTs are capable of making the "pixels" larger or smaller as needed.
Drexl is offline  
Old 07-31-06, 01:43 PM
  #7  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 6,831
Originally Posted by Mopower
Since it's a CRT the picture should look the same as on a SDTV for Non HD sources. When people say the picture looks worse it's usual from a Plasma, LCD, RPTV where the resolution is too high for SDTV and SDTV sources look grainy and fuzzy.
That really isn't true, if the specs are to be believed, they only indicate 1080 native res on the posted model. That WAS true a couple years ago since most CRT HDTVs (whether direct-view or RPTV) had both 480p and 1080i as native resolutions, so the only processing for SDTV was to de-interlace. But now, most CRT HDTVs offer only 1080i resolution, meaning they have the same fuzzy problem as the digital sets.

But I think upgrading from a very cheap set will be just fine.
Spiky is offline  
Old 07-31-06, 02:10 PM
  #8  
DVD Talk Reviewer
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: NY
Posts: 3,364
I never understood why more TV's don't offer standard definition as a secondary native resolution.
mzupeman2 is offline  
Old 07-31-06, 02:25 PM
  #9  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Drexl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 16,001
Originally Posted by mzupeman2
I never understood why more TV's don't offer standard definition as a secondary native resolution.
Wouldn't that be impossible? With a fixed-pixel display, you would need a second set of pixels on top of the first set, and somehow these pixels (and their connections) would need to become invisible to allow the bottom set to show through. Even if it could be done, it would drive up the price a lot.
Drexl is offline  
Old 07-31-06, 03:50 PM
  #10  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 6,831
What would've been nice is an increase to a multiple of the old system (from 480 to 960, perhaps), but we also switched to a different aspect ratio, so that wasn't possible. If this could've been done, pixels could be simply doubled to display the SD resolutions natively.
Spiky is offline  
Old 08-01-06, 01:44 PM
  #11  
DVD Talk Reviewer
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: NY
Posts: 3,364
I don't think it's impossible. There are computer monitors that switch between resolutions, aren't there? Also, somebody said above old CRT TV's used to do both, why not anymore?
mzupeman2 is offline  
Old 08-01-06, 05:43 PM
  #12  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 6,831
Yes, there are computer monitors that do this, called multi-sync. Pretty much all of the CRT monitors since 1990 or some date. But they don't make TVs that way. It's possible to make them, but they don't. (except for CRT front projectors) It's cheaper to have a lesser controller that can only do one scan rate in the TV, so they've all dropped the 2-native-resolution style of HDTV they were using 3 years ago. This is only for CRTs that I'm talking about.

As mentioned, for fixed panels....they are fixed. They have a certain number of pixels and so it is impossible. You can't rearrange them physically. And you can't make 720x480 pixels physically fit easily into 1280x720 or 1920x1080 fixed panels. Couple choices that I can think of to try this: (1) Double up the pixels, use 4 pixels for each 1 pixel (it's 4 because you have to double both horizontally and vertically) from the source. But that gives you 1440x960, which doesn't fit either TV format. And it is still 4:3 on a 16:9 shape. (2) Use every other pixel to broaden the picture out so it is bigger but native resolution. But you still have the problem of 4:3 on 16:9. And you have gaps in the picture, which would look pretty bad. It would be the worst screen door effect ever.

Some sets will have a True or Native mode that will display a 480 signal in its native resolution, using only the 720x480 pixels necessary. But then you have a small picture in the middle of the TV with only those pixels in use, the border pixels are either off or just showing black, depending on the technology. That could be an option, but most don't like the picture being smaller. The True mode on my last HDTV actually looked very good (esp DVDs), and was still decent sized on the big screen. But it was a 5th the size of the screen or something, and really looked strange hanging out in the middle of the mostly empty screen.

So the solution is to have a scaler built in, and unfortunately many TVs have crappy scalers. Again, no doubt a cost-cutting measure. And, about the computer monitors...the computer is a scaler, also, often a pretty good one. So a computer has both scaling and multi-sync capabilities. This is why they are becoming so popular in home theaters.
Spiky is offline  
Old 08-02-06, 08:20 AM
  #13  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 83
while I don't have any input on where these posts are now, regarding my initial post I've decided to go with an sdtv, to save a little $ and because I don't see myself taking advantage of an hdtv for a few years.

I really like this Phillips but a lot of the reviews on circuit city's website say it dies after about a year.

So because of that I'm leaning towards this Insignia , although I can't find any reviews for that.

Anybody had any experience with either of these tvs, or even these brands, that theyd like to share?
BustaCones is offline  
Old 08-02-06, 09:53 AM
  #14  
Needs to contact an admin about multiple accounts
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 229
Isn't Insignia a Best Buy exclusive? Is there a reason you are limiting yourself to 27"? At that size, HD isn't really worth it, IMO. You have to be in the 32, 34, 36 and over. Digital format does have more defining/crips edges on non-hd shows over the standard analog format. At least that's what I'm seeing on my Sony 34". I'd suggest you look at the Toshiba 27" if you must stay in that size over the Insignia.
mather is offline  
Old 08-02-06, 10:09 AM
  #15  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 83
The reason I'm limiting myself to 27" is that I still live in a relatively small room in my mom's house (won't be moving out for another year or so) so any bigger than that just wouldnt be able to fit anywhere.

Yeah Insignia is the Best Buy brand, I would rather go with a more established brand (which is why I was looking at that Phillips before I saw the many bad reviews). I'll definitely take a look at the Toshiba, thanks for the suggestion.

Edit: The two 27" Toshiba's that Best Buy has, the 27D46 and the 27DF46 seem to be very similar, what exactly is so different about the two?

Last edited by BustaCones; 08-02-06 at 10:16 AM.
BustaCones is offline  
Old 08-02-06, 10:48 AM
  #16  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Drexl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 16,001
Originally Posted by BustaCones
The two 27" Toshiba's that Best Buy has, the 27D46 and the 27DF46 seem to be very similar, what exactly is so different about the two?
The 27DF46 has a flat tube, which should look nicer. It will still be about as big in terms of depth (it's not a "flat screen" like LCD or plasma), but the screen will be flat instead of curved.
Drexl is offline  
Old 08-02-06, 11:16 AM
  #17  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 83
both seem to have flat tube listed as their display type, both on the best buy site and on toshibas site. i guess ill take a look in store later today to see if the specs r right.
BustaCones is offline  
Old 08-02-06, 11:45 AM
  #18  
Needs to contact an admin about multiple accounts
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 229
The "F" means flat tube, the plain one with just the D is not, Toshiba site explains this as well. Best Buy has incorrect specs. I personally know of two people that have a Toshiba 32" flat tube and it has very good reviews. The Philips brand is not a good set to get, has too many problems from what I've read over the net. Good luck.
mather is offline  
Old 08-02-06, 03:14 PM
  #19  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 83
Well I think i may take a shot with the Insignia brand. I'll have a look in store and compare it to some of the others, if the picture's comparable I'll give it a chance.
BustaCones is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.