Problem with Infinity Primus 360 & Yamaha HTR-5730 Receiver
12-20-05, 08:39 PM
#26
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The HK is a high current amp but with only marginal wattage for what I think you are trying to get out of your speakers. Clipping occurs when an amp is driven too hard. Think of a lawnmower engine in a dump truck.
You have two choices, turn down the volume and keep the Yamaha or buy something with some guts that is going to cost you some money.
You have two choices, turn down the volume and keep the Yamaha or buy something with some guts that is going to cost you some money.
12-20-05, 08:49 PM
#27
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i'm ready for guts and shoudl be ready for money in a month or so depending how my taxes are looking... if the ol' accountant says i'm gonna owe then this gets put off another month or two.
you say the primus are more than capable of putting out some serious power, but i don't want to risk blowing them. if that means i need to keep it down to a safer level i can handle that... as long as it's still loud enough to get the point across.... my problem is that i'm trying to use this as my home theatre and my stereo, obviously.... i can't spend my life savings on this... i have to keep it under control so it doesn't take over the bank, again.... but at the same time i want to do this once more, and be done with it... no more looking back at ANOTHER mistake.
aaaah i'm lost...... maybe i just need to sleep on this.
you say the primus are more than capable of putting out some serious power, but i don't want to risk blowing them. if that means i need to keep it down to a safer level i can handle that... as long as it's still loud enough to get the point across.... my problem is that i'm trying to use this as my home theatre and my stereo, obviously.... i can't spend my life savings on this... i have to keep it under control so it doesn't take over the bank, again.... but at the same time i want to do this once more, and be done with it... no more looking back at ANOTHER mistake.
aaaah i'm lost...... maybe i just need to sleep on this.
12-20-05, 09:00 PM
#28
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HTR-5730 is 103W x 5 @ 6ohsm (my primus 360's are 8ohms, does that matter?) according to yamaha's website..... i was content with the volume being about 3/4 of the way up.... maybe slightly more at times.... i don't know how else to express the volume level i'm looking for.... does this help? at all? i was thinking that the 90x2 stereo mode of the HK would be perfect..... though i'd be driving it slightly harder than the yamaha it's a "high current" receiver as you say so shouldn't that be ok and i be problem free?
here is the specs on my current yamaha... i don't see ANYTHING about current listed...
http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/we...ZkMzF5NTQx.jpg
where the specs on the HK are:
Audio
Stereo Mode
Continuous Average Power (FTC) per Channel 90 Watts per channel, 20Hz – 20kHz, @ <0.07% THD, both channels driven into 8 ohms
Seven-Channel Surround Modes, Power per Individual Channel
Front L & R Channels 75 Watts per channel @ <0.07% THD, 20Hz – 20kHz into 8 ohms
Center Channel 75 Watts @ <0.07% THD, 20Hz – 20kHz into 8 ohms
Surround Channels (L & R Side, L & R Back) 75 Watts per channel @ <0.07% THD, 20Hz – 20kHz into 8 ohms
Input Sensitivity/Impedance Linear (High-Level) 200mV/47k Ohms
Signal-to-Noise Ratio (IHF-A) 95dB
Surround System Adjacent Channel Separation
Dolby® Pro Logic® I and II 40dB
Dolby® Digital 55dB
DTS® 55dB
Frequency Response at 1W (+0dB, –3dB) 10Hz – 130kHz
High Instantaneous Current Capability (HCC) ±50 Amps
Transient Intermodulation Distortion (TIM) Unmeasurable
Slew Rate 40V/µsec
here is the specs on my current yamaha... i don't see ANYTHING about current listed...
http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/we...ZkMzF5NTQx.jpg
where the specs on the HK are:
Audio
Stereo Mode
Continuous Average Power (FTC) per Channel 90 Watts per channel, 20Hz – 20kHz, @ <0.07% THD, both channels driven into 8 ohms
Seven-Channel Surround Modes, Power per Individual Channel
Front L & R Channels 75 Watts per channel @ <0.07% THD, 20Hz – 20kHz into 8 ohms
Center Channel 75 Watts @ <0.07% THD, 20Hz – 20kHz into 8 ohms
Surround Channels (L & R Side, L & R Back) 75 Watts per channel @ <0.07% THD, 20Hz – 20kHz into 8 ohms
Input Sensitivity/Impedance Linear (High-Level) 200mV/47k Ohms
Signal-to-Noise Ratio (IHF-A) 95dB
Surround System Adjacent Channel Separation
Dolby® Pro Logic® I and II 40dB
Dolby® Digital 55dB
DTS® 55dB
Frequency Response at 1W (+0dB, –3dB) 10Hz – 130kHz
High Instantaneous Current Capability (HCC) ±50 Amps
Transient Intermodulation Distortion (TIM) Unmeasurable
Slew Rate 40V/µsec
12-21-05, 10:15 AM
#29
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Ok, the HK is probably the highest current and wattage receiver among those mentioned here. Keep in mind they are measured differently.
It really sounds as though you are overdriving both speakers and receiver. If you need to play it this loud, and this rough, you need more equipment, not just better. Make sure you have separate amps for the outdoor speakers. Driving them off the B outputs is almost universally a bad idea. I still don't have a clear picture of how this was wired, but it sounds bad. Correct me if I'm wrong: You have a 5 channel HT, plus 4 outdoor speakers. That's 9 channels you need or you run the risk of melting something, which is what happened.
One possibility is to get a 7.1 receiver that has the option to use the 6th and 7th amp channels for Zone 2. The 3805 link claims it does this, which sounds right to me. But you still should only run 2 speakers off this, not 2 sets as you mentioned you have.
Another option is to get a new receiver to use simply as a power amp for the outdoor speakers. If the Yamaha is ok. Or vice versa, use the Yamaha as a power amp for outdoors and get a more powerful one for your HT since you like to blast it. You could use the Zone 2 line-level output (red/white RCAs) to any input on the 2nd receiver and set it to All-Channel Stereo and plug the 4 outdoor speakers into the L, R, SL, SR outputs. (NOT the A/B outputs)
It really sounds as though you are overdriving both speakers and receiver. If you need to play it this loud, and this rough, you need more equipment, not just better. Make sure you have separate amps for the outdoor speakers. Driving them off the B outputs is almost universally a bad idea. I still don't have a clear picture of how this was wired, but it sounds bad. Correct me if I'm wrong: You have a 5 channel HT, plus 4 outdoor speakers. That's 9 channels you need or you run the risk of melting something, which is what happened.
One possibility is to get a 7.1 receiver that has the option to use the 6th and 7th amp channels for Zone 2. The 3805 link claims it does this, which sounds right to me. But you still should only run 2 speakers off this, not 2 sets as you mentioned you have.
Another option is to get a new receiver to use simply as a power amp for the outdoor speakers. If the Yamaha is ok. Or vice versa, use the Yamaha as a power amp for outdoors and get a more powerful one for your HT since you like to blast it. You could use the Zone 2 line-level output (red/white RCAs) to any input on the 2nd receiver and set it to All-Channel Stereo and plug the 4 outdoor speakers into the L, R, SL, SR outputs. (NOT the A/B outputs)
Last edited by Spiky; 12-21-05 at 10:28 AM.
12-21-05, 10:25 AM
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Oh, and 3/4 on the volume control is probably the absolute max allowable for a cheap receiver. Really running redline at that level. Probably shouldn't be done for very long. My old rule of thumb on inexpensive equipment (receivers, boomboxes, etc.) was 70%. Often that meant 7 on the scale of 10, or whatever. Above that and you will soon get a real boom.
I used to run a mid-level Yamaha at redline for DJ work on occasion. Great unit and held up very well, going into protect when I ran it too hard, but there are limits that you just can't cross. Simply have to turn it down or spend more coin. At that point, I just turned it down.
Any other good brand would have done the same. This isn't proof that Yammy is poor, but rather excellent design.
I used to run a mid-level Yamaha at redline for DJ work on occasion. Great unit and held up very well, going into protect when I ran it too hard, but there are limits that you just can't cross. Simply have to turn it down or spend more coin. At that point, I just turned it down.
Any other good brand would have done the same. This isn't proof that Yammy is poor, but rather excellent design.
12-21-05, 02:59 PM
#31
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Thanks for backing me up Spiky! I too agree that there are too many speakers being driven at one time.
Actually Poor, the rating on the Yamaha would suggest that the receiver is fine if it can drive a load down to 6 ohms. The lower the ohms the harder it is for the amp to deliver power. This again is an indication that you simply want too much volume.
Actually Poor, the rating on the Yamaha would suggest that the receiver is fine if it can drive a load down to 6 ohms. The lower the ohms the harder it is for the amp to deliver power. This again is an indication that you simply want too much volume.
12-21-05, 06:19 PM
#32
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i do want too much volume... and it sounds like the only way i can afford "this" is to turn it down a notch... which i think i can deal with....
just to clarify... i used the yamaha in dolby 5.1 for movies... using only the 5 indoor speakers and my sub... when i was listening to music inside, i set my receiver to stereo and was only delivering sound through my two primus 360's and the 12" infinity sub..... when i was outside i kept the receiver in stereo mode, turned the gain on the back of the sub down all the way, and hit the button to run only "speakers b" which was wired directly to a set of two 2-way outdoor speakers.... if i wanted to listen to my other set of outdoor speakers i just wired them up at the back of the receiver in place of the primary set.... errr, in other words, only 1 set was run at a time....
i've got an older sony i'm going to use to run the outdoor speakers from now on i suppose... and i guess i'll feed it through the pre-amp outs on whatever receiver i purchase for my home theatre.... can i just use a $40 radio shack "speaker selector" switch to power both sets simultaneously if i go that route? or is that a bad idea all together?
-Erik <--- i think i'm leaning towards the HK AVR 630 but if i sell this car that i no longer have a use for that denon could be attainable.
just to clarify... i used the yamaha in dolby 5.1 for movies... using only the 5 indoor speakers and my sub... when i was listening to music inside, i set my receiver to stereo and was only delivering sound through my two primus 360's and the 12" infinity sub..... when i was outside i kept the receiver in stereo mode, turned the gain on the back of the sub down all the way, and hit the button to run only "speakers b" which was wired directly to a set of two 2-way outdoor speakers.... if i wanted to listen to my other set of outdoor speakers i just wired them up at the back of the receiver in place of the primary set.... errr, in other words, only 1 set was run at a time....
i've got an older sony i'm going to use to run the outdoor speakers from now on i suppose... and i guess i'll feed it through the pre-amp outs on whatever receiver i purchase for my home theatre.... can i just use a $40 radio shack "speaker selector" switch to power both sets simultaneously if i go that route? or is that a bad idea all together?
-Erik <--- i think i'm leaning towards the HK AVR 630 but if i sell this car that i no longer have a use for that denon could be attainable.
12-21-05, 06:42 PM
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It does sound like you kept the ohms in line by only running the proper number of speakers. Could just be you seriously overtaxed that amp with the Infinitys. How many channels in that Sony? I've never used a speaker switch, so maybe someone else has and can comment.
Where are you? The outdoor speakers could be partly an unrelated problem, like the weather.
Where are you? The outdoor speakers could be partly an unrelated problem, like the weather.
12-21-05, 07:13 PM
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sony is an old receiver, 5.1 maybe... not sure... it's my friends and he said it works but he thinks the surround sound cuts out some times... i'll only be using it for the two front channels anyway though? anyone else know about the speaker switches?
i'm in wilmington, nc.... about 10 miles from the beach.... the speakers are installed below the underhangs so they aren't exposed to rain directly.... they are only about 8 months old.... each pair only failed after being used on my volleyball court at wide open volumes...... well, 3/4 way or so... probably a little more... i abused those pretty bad.
-Erik
i'm in wilmington, nc.... about 10 miles from the beach.... the speakers are installed below the underhangs so they aren't exposed to rain directly.... they are only about 8 months old.... each pair only failed after being used on my volleyball court at wide open volumes...... well, 3/4 way or so... probably a little more... i abused those pretty bad.
-Erik
