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help with new sony tv and dvd player..

Old 11-12-05, 12:49 AM
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help with new sony tv - UPDATE

Hey guys, just some newbie questions. Just bought a sony 50kfe50a10 widescreen lcd. Its connected to my dvd player via component cables. I turned progressive scan on on the dvd player menu. I want to be displaying the correct aspect ratios on my dvd's and i'm a little confused. Should i have 16x9 mode on on my dvd player? And what wide mode setting on the tv? Wide zoom or full? Thanks for any help.

Last edited by MxChino; 12-20-05 at 01:31 AM.
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Old 11-12-05, 02:08 AM
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Have yor dvd player set to 16x9,and your tv set to full.Some dvd players also have a switch on the back for component output,you might want to check to be sure.Enjoy.
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Old 11-12-05, 08:44 PM
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To get the most out of that tv, you should look into a DVD player that can output 720p to match your set's native resolution. The Denon 1910 for around $250 is a good choice. A lot of people also like the cheaper Oppo, but the Denon is my preference.
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Old 11-12-05, 11:26 PM
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Ya know, the only thing I don't understand about these upconversion DVD players is that they can artificially try to enhance the image, but in the end these DVD players can't add any extra data to what's being put out. If you ask me, personally, I think you should just stick with a DVD player that has the DVD component out, which they pretty much all should now, and watch at 480p.
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Old 11-13-05, 12:02 AM
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Well, your TV will convert the signal to 720p anyway if that is its native resolution. You can't get away from this with current DLP/LCD/plasma/LCOS sets. (with CRT models it's different) It's often better to do this in the digital domain before converting to analog for component video connections. That's the draw of these players.
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Old 11-13-05, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by mzupeman2
Ya know, the only thing I don't understand about these upconversion DVD players is that they can artificially try to enhance the image, but in the end these DVD players can't add any extra data to what's being put out. If you ask me, personally, I think you should just stick with a DVD player that has the DVD component out, which they pretty much all should now, and watch at 480p.
If his set did 480p natively, this would be the way to go. However, since the native resolution of his set is 1280 x 720, feeding it a 720p signal will yield a significantly better picture than using the component outputs and letting the tv do the scaling.

MxChino, trust me and Spiky on this. Pick up an upconverting player (I like the Denon 1910 or 1920 (not sure if that one is out yet)) and see how it looks. You can always return it if you don't see a noticiable improvement, but I guarantee you will.
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Old 11-13-05, 12:01 PM
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Well I've read other forums and even a topic on this forum once on this before, and it seemed to be just a preference thing. Some people notice a little bit of an improvement and live and swear by it. Others may see the improvement but not care because it's not a huge improvement and may not have seen it worth their money, especially with HD-DVD on the horizon. Others may not even see a difference. I mean upconverters can add all the extra lines they want, it doesn't matter because DVD's weren't made to be 720p, and again, you can't add extra information to the picture. Besides, even at 480p, the picture is still pretty damn good. Sure it's not the same quality as you'd see on a standard television, but you're still seeing every detail the DVD has on it. You're just seeing a little reduction in 'quality' because for one thing, the TV has a much higher resolution. So the quality hasn't suffered from DVD, just that there's a lot of additional information that can be displayed on your HDTV screen that isn't because the DVD isn't HD. So hey, as BobDole said, go buy one if you think it's worth it to buy this upconversion player now, because who the heck knows exactly when we'll get HD-DVD? If you think it was worth the dinero, keep it, if not, then return it and stick with 480p. But again, my personal opinion is keep your money and ride with what you got. As long as you're not sitting very close to your TV anyways, the picture will still look great.

"The resolution upconversion does, will not actually add any real picture information to the image, as you cannot create real picture information where none existed before. What upconversion theoretically does is create a smoother look for non-HDTV signals. Upconversion, which is also known as line doubling, reduces the visibility of horizontal scan lines, which become more noticeable on screens larger than 32". With my 60" screen, and no doubt your 57" screeen, upconversion (line-doubling)will make the lines on the screen less noticeable.

Similar in fact to what Progressive scanning does, except that it of course, changes it from an interlaced signal to a Progressive scanning signal, but the principles are the same - smoother images on screen."

Last edited by mzupeman2; 11-13-05 at 12:05 PM.
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Old 11-13-05, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by mzupeman2
Well I've read other forums and even a topic on this forum once on this before, and it seemed to be just a preference thing. Some people notice a little bit of an improvement and live and swear by it. Others may see the improvement but not care because it's not a huge improvement and may not have seen it worth their money, especially with HD-DVD on the horizon. Others may not even see a difference. I mean upconverters can add all the extra lines they want, it doesn't matter because DVD's weren't made to be 720p, and again, you can't add extra information to the picture. Besides, even at 480p, the picture is still pretty damn good. Sure it's not the same quality as you'd see on a standard television, but you're still seeing every detail the DVD has on it. You're just seeing a little reduction in 'quality' because for one thing, the TV has a much higher resolution. So the quality hasn't suffered from DVD, just that there's a lot of additional information that can be displayed on your HDTV screen that isn't because the DVD isn't HD. So hey, as BobDole said, go buy one if you think it's worth it to buy this upconversion player now, because who the heck knows exactly when we'll get HD-DVD? If you think it was worth the dinero, keep it, if not, then return it and stick with 480p. But again, my personal opinion is keep your money and ride with what you got. As long as you're not sitting very close to your TV anyways, the picture will still look great.

"The resolution upconversion does, will not actually add any real picture information to the image, as you cannot create real picture information where none existed before. What upconversion theoretically does is create a smoother look for non-HDTV signals. Upconversion, which is also known as line doubling, reduces the visibility of horizontal scan lines, which become more noticeable on screens larger than 32". With my 60" screen, and no doubt your 57" screeen, upconversion (line-doubling)will make the lines on the screen less noticeable.

Similar in fact to what Progressive scanning does, except that it of course, changes it from an interlaced signal to a Progressive scanning signal, but the principles are the same - smoother images on screen."
I have to respectfully disagree. For CRT sets that don't have a fixed resolution (LCDs, Lcos, Plasma, DLP all have native resolutions), the upconversion usually doesn't add much, although some people like it. However, for native resolution sets, the upconverting dvd players are necessary to get a good picture. I haven't heard a single person say there isn't a noticable difference in quality. I hope I'm not being a pain in the ass, I just want to make sure MxChino is getting the most from his new set.

Last edited by BobDole42; 11-13-05 at 02:47 PM.
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Old 11-13-05, 12:42 PM
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I figured I would add my 2 cents since I recently went through this same decision... I have a 32" JVC LCD (32x576) that I purchased last week. It has this "4th generation" upconversion to 770p. Anyhow, based on many very positive comments, I purchased a OPPO upconverting player and got it yesterday. Plugged into my HDMI port (and with the setting to either 770p or 1080i on the player), the difference is HUGE to my eyes (compared to my 480p DVP-642 player hooked up via component inputs).

I cannot decide whether I like 770p or 1080i out from the player best. But the 770p out from the player looks much better than the 770p upconversion from the TV. At least on my set.

I don't think the OPPO is perfect (the remote feels like junk and a few minor issues with the operation annoy me), but the picture quality is indisputible.

Last edited by mbs; 11-13-05 at 12:49 PM.
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Old 11-13-05, 09:57 PM
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You have to realize that these comments you read are weighted by various things. Which display technology is one. Which player is another. Which scaler is in the player or TV is another. The person's experience looking at video artifacts. And the person's sensitivity to certain artifacts. Whether the TV is calibrated. Whether the TV converts to analog even over a digital connection. And so on.

If you can take away the subjective issues like user differences and calibration/lighting issues, it will boil down to the scalers and the digital vs analog connections. We are also assuming that the TV is not a CRT, which would likely have an ED mode that would match DVD more perfectly. So, if the scaler in the TV is good enough, it can overcome the inherent superiority (because of digital connections) of having the scaler located in the player. Otherwise, the upconverting player is a good bet.

Using an outboard scaler might beat both options. But that would be expensive. It's usually not a comparable option.
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Old 11-13-05, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Spiky
You have to realize that these comments you read are weighted by various things. Which display technology is one. Which player is another. Which scaler is in the player or TV is another. The person's experience looking at video artifacts. And the person's sensitivity to certain artifacts. Whether the TV is calibrated. Whether the TV converts to analog even over a digital connection. And so on.

If you can take away the subjective issues like user differences and calibration/lighting issues, it will boil down to the scalers and the digital vs analog connections. We are also assuming that the TV is not a CRT, which would likely have an ED mode that would match DVD more perfectly. So, if the scaler in the TV is good enough, it can overcome the inherent superiority (because of digital connections) of having the scaler located in the player. Otherwise, the upconverting player is a good bet.

Using an outboard scaler might beat both options. But that would be expensive. It's usually not a comparable option.
As usual, you are right on the money. Anyone who is using a native resolultion set owes it to himself to try an upconverting player.
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Old 11-14-05, 07:28 AM
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Well, I just got myself an HDTV last week so I was still fumbling around with the options it has. I have just purchased the Sony 42" Widescreen HD LCD Rear Projection set, model KDFE42A10. It has the DRC (digital reality creation) function in it, which adds 4x the lines and lets you adjust the 'reality' and 'clarity'. This function really, really made a difference for me. I hadn't wanted to tamper with it when I originally posted in here yesterday, as I didn't have the time to calibrate it to my liking, but now I had the chance to and this tool for 'upconversion' is really really nice. For example, the scene where general grievous in Star Wars Episode III, pulls out his four light sabers and starts twirling them around, there's usually tons of artifacts with the standard setup on my HDTV, but with the DRC, there's really not a lot of problems with the picture during the same scene.


I now need some help. Notice a little bit of pixelation in HDTV when there's fast movement. I have the cable connected to a monster power line conditioner and then up to the cable box. Should I just have my cable directly going into the cable box, or is the pixelation just from compression from Timewarner Cable itself do you think?

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Old 11-14-05, 10:51 AM
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Sounds like your Sony has a pretty decent system for upconversion. Once you get used to staring at the video, watch out for edge enhancement. That is ringing around objects. These systems often have that artifact as a by-product.

If you see the blocking problem only during fast movement, it is most likely that the cable box isn't up to the task of decoding it. Or possibly it's in the source or TWC's fault on their end. Doubtful a wiring issue would only show up during movement. Maybe you should call them and tell them the box isn't working great, see if another would be better, maybe it's just yours is bad. I don't have this, even on DirecTV channels, and DirecTV does more compression (and has a worse pic) than your cable company I would imagine.
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Old 11-14-05, 11:29 AM
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It's nothing really bad at all but, it's a HD box meant for HD through TWC. Most cable companies usually compress the image a little bit, to save some bandwidth. If it's doubtful it's a wiring issue then I am not concerned. It's a pretty minor issue with minor blocking in lots of fast movement. I just want to make sure I'm making the most out of my HDTV
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Old 11-14-05, 12:18 PM
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Let's say for the sake of argument someday I do upgrade to a upconversion DVD player. I don't want to special order something on the web. I'd like to know if there's something that they may sell in a store like Best Buy that I can buy for a reasonable price that does a great job of doing upconversion. I just couldn't afford it right now because hell, I just bought this awesome TV.
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Old 11-14-05, 03:37 PM
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Well, from the right internet company it's probably easier to return products that don't work out than it is at BB. But I digress....I haven't really shopped these so no comment on the particular models, but here's examples. They are definitely sitting on shelves at retail stores. Denons and Panasonics should be out there, too.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1107957009599
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1122654250942
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1118840369037


BTW, if you are seeing any sort of blocking, I'd call and complain. Something is wrong. It may be easy or hard to figure out, but you shouldn't see it. Just because HD means a lot of bandwidth is being used doesn't mean it shouldn't get to you properly. I'd say it's worth a phone call. Course, with the way service is these days, maybe I'd change my mind after making the call.
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Old 11-15-05, 08:06 PM
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Anyways, another good thing to keep in mind for the person hooking up their DVD player to their Sony, is to make sure you don't use factory settings. Get your contrast down so it's not overpowering images with how bright it is. It looks great that way sure, but it can be too bright for you and it's really only meant to look good in a store with the factory settings anyway. It'll burn out your bulb faster too. Turning down your brightness and contrast and calibrating accordingly will also make a lot of your artifacts that may be noticeable on DVD's kinda disappear. I had a lot of time to mess around with my new LCD Rear Projection by Sony, and you'll get yourself better black levels and it's amazing that you can get your picture to look identical to what you have with factory settings, minus the bright bright bright whites and screen that will cause a 'sparkle' effect. I've been messing with the DRC settings and all that junk and decided to give up, throw it on progressive again since it gave me a better picture, and take more time to calibrate what most people suggest, which again is a lower contrast and brightness.
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Old 12-20-05, 01:12 AM
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Update- This weekend i did purchase an hdmi cable and an upconvert dvd player. At first i went with a cheapie toshibia (99.99 at bestbuy). Brought it home and the picture was terrible even after setting up 720p output. Decided to spend a little more money and went with the LG model (149.99) and I must agree with bobdole42, there is quite a noticeable difference. Watching chronicles of riddiock right now and the picture is amazing!
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