Thunderball

Not getting it at Circuity City, but here it is from their site, since the shop I'm going to doens't have it online

http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Sony-...oductDetail.do

I demoed this in store pretty heavily today, and they're running a pretty good sale overall.

No interest for 24 months(excellent) , the total bill will be about $3K.

TV , stand, delivery and the 5 year protection plan.

The plan includes a yearly cleaning, and any light bulb problems within those 5 years. In additiont o any normal issues(faulty TV stuff).

I'm not worried about the cash(well it is a lot) but I'm getting some nice bonus money at work this year, and I've found I too often neglect to buy myself anything cool anymore.

So, any opinions either way before I jump tomorrow?

Shannon Nutt

My only opinion would be to consider some other brands before dropping 3K on a Sony. I think there are much better HDTVs out there for that kind of $$$. Don't go by the way the picture looks compared to other TVs in the store - most of the TVs you see on display haven't been properly tweaked for the best performance.
You're much better off going off reviews and threads on sites such as this one...that's how I wound up going with Mitshubishi over some other brands I was looking at when buying an HDTV last Christmas.

chipmac

I'm with Shannon on this. It's not that there's anything really wrong with the one you chose but for $3000 you can get a lot better bang for you buck with an CRT based RPTV. Hell I just saw the 65" Mits 65315 on sale for under $2000. That's 15 extras inches, a better picture and a savings of a nice chunk of change after you buy the extended warranty.

Just what is it about these flat panel technologies that some people find so compelling? To me they're all deficient in PQ compared to a properly set up CRT. Sure you don't need to mess with convergence but once mine settled in I rarely need to touch it so that can't be it. Is it fear of burn in? Set you contrast properly and don't what Fox news 24/7 and you're fine. About the only plus I see for LCD, Plasma or DLP is the space savings. This is aother area I still don't fully understand since you still need space to store your audio gear, DVD player, cable or sat STB and/or VCR but you're paying a premium to save a little space on the display.

bryce0lynch

For the vast majority of consumers, an LCD/DLP/LCOS set is the best choice. It's the most like a "normal" Tv of any of the large screen choices. The forma factor is about the same as their old Tv, and they can use it in much the same fashion as their old Tv.

PQ and burn-in are the reasons. You neglected to mention that a CRT RPTV needs to tuned up every 6 months to maintain the PQ. I find it absolutly rediculous that you force yourself to watch 4:3 in strecth mode, limit your viewing and turn your contrast down. OMG!OMG! A stock ticker! Run for the hills! GAAK! Channel bug! Call the station! Call the station!

So, lets see:
CRT RPTV: Humongous, Heavy, Needs tune ups, burns in.
Fixed Pixel RPTV: Smaller, Lighter, Looks better longer, no burn in.

All but the most expensive CRT RPTVs will be gone within 2 years. The few remaining sets will be marketed to AV nuts with home theaters who absolutly have to hav teh best possible picture, and are willing to live with the size, wight, tune-up, burn-in issues.

namlook

On many of the newer CRT projection sets the stretch modes are so well done you can't even tell the picture is being stretched. I've had my Mitsubishi CRT projection for over a year and haven't tuned it other than using the avia DVD. The picture looks fantastic and HD is stunning. Why is turning the contrast down from the factory setting of 100% a problem? It takes like 2 seconds. Best bang for the buck is still CRT projection and you get the best picture quality too as an added bonus. I'm not going to try to talk someone out of anything but CRT projection TVs are still very worthy canidates, especially for those on tight budgets. You get more for less.

Frank S

This quote is so uninformed it funny! First off burn-in is virtually impossible to get these days if you calibrate the TV (using a $25 calibration DVD), and this "tune up" you speak of, what are you referring to a ISF calibration? In the vast majority of cases it really is un-nessasary.

If people have the room, CRT based is still very noticably better picture quality and CRT's will easily give you 10,000 + hours of higher quality picture over the other flat panels displays.

And lets not forget that only some flat panel technology is ammune to burn-in and even those when properly calibrated have no worries.

DLP is the one flat panel display that in the next few years should surplant the CRT as the best overall picture quality, but for now CRT is far and away the vest picture quality at the best price.

bryce0lynch

It's not uninformed, it's the truth.

A properly calibrated (and continually recalibrated) CRT RPTV will give the best picture, without a doubt. However the vast majority of CRT RPTVs are not properly calibrated and they are not routinely calibrated. A set that has torch mode disabled, uses 4:3 in stretch mode, and doesn't linger on XBOX, tickers, or bugs will not have to worry about burn-in.

CRT RPTV burn-in is not a myth. It happens and it happens quite often. Yes, it can be avoided, but the steps required are beyond most consumers desire, and dictate the way the set can be used. That is unacceptable to the vast majority of consumers.

A fixed pixel set (LCD-RPTV, DLP-RPTV, LCOS-RPTV, LCD) is the best choice for most consumers. It's small, it's light, and it can used the way they used their old Tv. None of those points are valid for CRT RPTV.

I stand by my statement: In 2 years CRT RPTV will be all but dead. New installs will only remain in niche dedicated home theaters owned by videophiles who care to calibrate, recalibrate, and are willing to let their set dicate to them how they use it. CRT RPTV supporters will be ou tin the streets fighting with FP supporters over whos devices are better.

al_bundy

are TV's that bad now that you need to spend a ton of money on a warranty? I've had 2 CRT's since the late 1980's and both lasted around 12 years. One that I bought in 1994 is still working very well.

Thunderball

I've decided against this TV for now. You guys have talked me out of it.

chipmac

gcbrowni - You might not feel you're misinformed but you are exaggerating your so called facts. Yes CRT based RPTVs can suffer from burn in however if the owner takes the normal precautions found in their owner's manual it won't happen. Turning the contrast down is not just to help prevent burn in, it also is needed to view a proper image. Stretch modes also should be used judiciously to help prevent burn in. If you don't want to stretch then don't buy a 16:9 TV if most of your viewing is 4:3. A CRT based RPTV doesn't need tune ups every 6 months and if you have one that does you have a problem set. Other than periodic convergence touchups the color, tint, contrast, brightness and sharpness do not need to be readjusted anyway near that often. Every 2 or 3 years for the average person is more like it and every year for only the most picky view who pays for professional calibrations.

Your comments about stock tickers and station bugs smells of sky is falling sensationalism. It's comments like this that give the wrong impression to new owners. Reread my original post. I said as long as you avoid these types of things being displayed 24/7 you'll be fine. Other than sports bars or offices on wall street how many average buyers need or want to have scrolling tickers and news bugs on screen 24/7. Similarly a mother sitting home watching 12 hours of the Food network during the day doesn't need a HDTV to do so and would be just as happy with a 36 tube from Walmart.

Your cons for CRT RPTVs are humorous to me. Humongous? Only if you look at it from the side. Heavy? Only if you're carrying it. They have wheel you know. And why are you moving it all the time? I roll mine away from the wall once a month to vacuum and roll it back all with one hand. Burn in. Sure if you abuse the thing but like Frank said not all flat panels are immune to this problem.

Let's also look at your statement about fixed pixels looking better longer since this topic came up on another forum. With CRTs they age and fade gradually over about 10 to 15 years. Like we already pointed out during this time you'll need to make slight adjustments to compensate. Fixed pixel displays that use bulbs will fade much more quickly and this will be more noticeable to the viewer than the slow fade of CRTs. These bulbs also average around $200 to replace so depending on how many hours of viewing you do you could be paying this pretty often over the life of the TV. So not only are the up front costs more than CRT based units but you're paying more over the life of the display as well.

A person can choose to buy whichever kind of TV they want but when they come to a site like this asking for advice we should try and keep the hyperbole to a minimum. All I'm say is that for the amount of money the OP is willing to spend he can get more from his money. The only reasons I can see to buy into the flat panel marketing is that the buyer can't control their lighting and/or they're willing to trade PQ for a little space. The days of the old CRT based RPTVs needing constant tune ups and suffering burn in easily are long gone. Taking proper care of it as you would any large purchase is simple and worth it. However for the person with a lot of money who wants to just take it out of the box and plug it in without any care for optimal PQ then sure i can see your point that flat panels are the best choice for some consumers. But those consumers generally don't come here seeking advice.

DoogieHowser

if i had the money i would get one of those sony's, but they are so much more expensive than a projection set. the quality of those thinner tv's is much much better in my opinion than a projection set.

i am stuck getting a projection set (because of money), and i can tell the quality is lower.

cowanrg

if you guys havent noticed, the guy who started this thread decided against a tv, most likely because of all the "i told ya so" comments...

its pretty simple...

CRT RPTV

cons - can have burn-in issues (not as bas as many make it out to be, but it CAN happen, very heavy and big, needs calibration (a proper setup tv will still need to be calibrated about every 2-3 years. this is a FACT. the guns sag and burn unevenly, etc... pull up a cross-hatch pattern on a 3-year old RPTV, it doesnt look like new), expensive to service (most need full gun replacement when they break, not a huge con, because it assumes it will break, but it still is there)

pros - good price/performance ratio, big size for the money, good connections (generally, with the size of these things, you get a ton of connections), decent reliability and long life (if tuned and taken care of)

LCD/DLP RPTV

cons - bulb needs to be replaced about every 5k hours (but its only $200, cheaper than re-calibrating a CRT set), limited black levels, more pricey and less value, and some others that i cant think of right now...

pros - small, lightweight, good HD picture quality, little to no maintenance, no burn-in

its a close battle. but if it was my cash, i wouldnt even consider a CRT RPTV. they are far too big and cumbersone, and need maintenance and attention (even at every 2-3 years, its still annoying, because it gets put off, and then you have a tv that looks like crap). i also dont like the idea how they dominate a room. i have at least 10+ peices of gear, and with a RPTV, i cant fit it in a medium sized room even. i would need a 25ft+ wide wall to fit everything.

namlook

cowanrg: Suprised you didn't mention...

CRT pro: Superior picture quality for digital and analog signals

LCD/DLP con: 4x3 analog TV looks bad.

What TV did you end up with cowanrg?

Thunderball

That's about the size of it.

agrall

You know...

Audition the sets yourself and make your own decision. These days, the difference between the digital sets and the CRT-RP sets is not as big as it used to be. There are distinct advantages to either one.

Anyhow, for every bunch of people telling you that CRT is still king, at least one of that bunch is probably only saying it because CRT-RP is cheaper than the digital technology, and so they are justifying being cheaper by saying it is better...

tommyp007

one more thing.......as a former CC employee....the service plan does NOT cover a yearly cleaning on TV's. That's a common sales pitch, but read the fine print on the contract. Yearly cleaning on camcorders, VCR's, tape decks only. Careful.

BTW, I have a RPTV and love it, but with more $$$ available, I'd absolutely get either a Samsung or Mitsubishi DLP.

cowanrg

well, i think the picture quality comparison between a digital tv and a crt is a hard call to make. the fixed pixel devices look pretty good on hdtv, IMO, better than a crt rtpv. and honestly, if you get a sony lcr rptv, it looks much better on analog (crappy) sources than a crt rptv does. those tvs look pretty trashy on poor signals. just my experiences (ive had a lot of experience with mitsubishi, hitachi, sony, and pioneer elite rptv's).


i ended up with a sony 34" tube tv. im still in college and i have a limited budget. i got one really cheap. i dont sit very close, and im an audio guy, not a video guy (but this stuff is my living, so i still know enough about it). for the money, it looks the best with what i use it for (primarily dvd's only). i use it barely for tv, but i dont use it for HD.

i honestly can see why anyone would want to buy a CRT rptv (in my mind, its too close of a contest between the newer formats). they are cheaper, but other than that, its just a coin toss really. but, thats just me, i like it when people form their own opinions

Thunderball

If you read the first post, I linked to CC because I found the product on their webstie. I was gong to buy it at Tweeter, which does have the yearly cleaning as part of their warranty

cowanrg

as a guy who works "in the biz", i dont personally recommend the extended warranties on these types of tv's to my customers. its piece of mind for sure, everything breaks, BUT, the cleanings is bs... the light engine is sealed, and rarely gets ANY dust in it (actually, opening it up greatly increases the risk of GETTING dust).

also, the bulb is the #1 problem ive seen. and its never covered and for good reason. other than that, ive NEVER heard of a problem with one of these tvs. its always the bulb. just my opinion though.

namlook

What would be the point of an extended warranty that doesn't cover the bulb? That's a waste of money then. You get an extra year coverage free by using your major credit card. Just go with that.

cowanrg

the bulb is seen as something that normally goes out anyways. its in the same category as the batteries that come with the remote. its a consumable. i havent seen a warranty that covers it yet. the factory warranty sure doesnt.

chipmac

Actually for a CRT based RPTV opening and cleaning it is needed every few years. Normal dust and grease in the air will float in there and land on the mirror and lenses and over time can effect the picture. My was filthy straight from the manufacturer. I opened mine up to adjust the focus and found pieces of wood chips, bugs and dust between the lenses and the CRTs. Took them apart and cleaned them up and the picure improved a lot when I was done. For LCD, Plasma and the like I don't know since I've never opened one I can't say how sealed they really are inside.

bryce0lynch

Quite a few extended warrenties cover the bulb, and that's the only reason I would ever suggest one.

Figue out how many hours a year you will watch the set and compare that to the life numbers of the sets bulb. That should tell you if the warrenty is a good idea for you. A factory warrenty will cover the bulb, but only if the bulb deth is premature (300 hours or so.) If your set dies at 10,000 hours and you're still covered by the factory warrentry, then you have a time machine and watch too much Tv. (24*365= ~8000 hours)

Deftones

Best Buy's warranty covers bulb replacement.

cowanrg

hum, ive looked into this, and i wasnt aware of the warranties covering this...

if anyone knows anyone who has actually been covered by a warranty for a bulb issue, let me know...

ive had customers that have had a bulb go out at 9 months, and the manufacterer (samsung) did NOTHING and said it wasnt covered...

thats just my experiences with it.