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Need recommendations on a good entry/mid level subwoofer

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Need recommendations on a good entry/mid level subwoofer

Old 12-09-02, 08:38 AM
  #1  
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Need recommendations on a good entry/mid level subwoofer

I am looking for a relatively cheap (~$100-150) entry/mid level subwoofer. I don't think I can use a 12" (it'd be too big), but 8" or 10" is good with anywhere between 100-150W of power. It should have an LFE input (that's the way my receiver would connect to it).

I was browsing at circuitcity last week, and actually bought the Polk 100" subwoofer (PSW250). It sounds okay, but I don't have anything to compare it to (this being my first subwoofer). I would keep it except for two things; instead of an LFE input, it has left and right coaxial inputs. But since my receiver only has ONE LFE output, I just plugged the cable from that LFE output into the right coaxial input. I don't think I'm doing the right thing there; so I'd like to get a subwoofer with a dedicated LFE input. Am I damaging the subwoofer/receiver in any way by connecting them like this? Am I somehow 'losing' the left signal? This is priced at $200 at Circuitcity, but can be had for less than $100 online.

Anybody have any suggestions?
Thanks very much,

- Huzefa

Last edited by huzefa; 12-09-02 at 08:45 AM.
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Old 12-09-02, 08:45 AM
  #2  
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Am I damaging the subwoofer/receiver in any way by connecting them like this? Am I somehow 'losing' the left signal?
Subs are mono and it does not matter which is connected.
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Old 12-09-02, 09:00 AM
  #3  
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I know you said 12" is probably too big but this is a really good deal so I figured I'd post it anyway. If you go to my.sony.com you can pick up the SA-WM40 for $125 shipped (you need to earn some of their points but it doesn't take that long).

Last edited by Icculus; 12-09-02 at 09:12 AM.
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Old 12-09-02, 09:02 AM
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Can somebody explain what these figures mean?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All figures are for a corner loaded subwoofer, 2 meter SPL mic distance,10%
distortion limit,and the SPLs have been averaged from the maximum output at
1/3 spacing at 25/31/40/50/63hz.


( * ) denotes a manual data adjustment applied by myself to compensate the
subwoofer from Nousaine's *small* room(2400) to his newer *large* room(7500).




STRYKE HE15 proto-type 115.3 / 16hz~99
VELODYNE F1800 - 111.9
VELODYNE FSR15 - 109.1 / 16hz~90.1 / 25hz~103.1
MISSION 700as - 108.1 / 25hz~102
VELODYNE HGS15 - 107.7 / 16hz~89.1
Paradigm PW2200 - 107.4 / 20hz~91(112.8dB peak)
Paradigm Servo15 - 107.3 / 27hz
VELODYNE SPL12 - 107.1 / 20hz ~90 /25hz ~ 99
HSU RESEARCH TN25(w/250w) - 107.1 / 30hz
HSU RESEARCH VTF-2 - 107.1 / 20hz~9325hz~99dB
Cerwin Vega cvt300s - 107 / 16hz~80db / 20hz~92(112.4dB peak)
KLIPSCH KSW300 - 106.0 / 25hz~92 *
Cerwin Vega LW12 - 106.0 / 20hz~89
POLK 650 -105.9 / 25hz~90
Infinity 1.2s - 105.5 / 20hz ~90 / 25hz~95
BW asw1000 - 105.4 / 25hz~92.4 *
MK mx125 mkII - 105.3 / 20hz 89 / 25hz 95
VELODYNE ct150 - 105.3 / 20hz~82(111.4dB peak)
JBL D112 - 105.2 / 25hz~95
KLIPSCH KSW12 - 104.9 / 25hz~90
Boston Acoustics PV800 - 104.4 / 20hz~85
Phase Technology PC500(towers) - 103.6
Infinity interlude100 - 103.5 / 25hz ~ 94
BW asw2000 - 103 / 29hz *
PSB Subsonic6 - 102.7 / 25hz~94
Sound Dynamics rts1200 - 102.1 / 25hz~92(110.9dB peak)
Infinity IL100s - 102dB / 25hz ~94dB
VELODYNE ct120 - 101 / 20hz~87
MK - mx105 -100.6 / 25hz~86
ATLANTIC TECH 272 PBM - 100.5 / 20hz~85
INFINITY hps250 - 100.2 / 25hz~82(112.8dB peak)
KLIPSCH LF10 - 100.1 / 25hz~90
PSB subsonic 3i - 100 / 28hz *
MISSION ms70asa - 100/32hz~92dB
SUNFIRE Jr. - 100 / 25hz~95
VELODYNE VLF810 - 100 / 25hz~91
Canbridge - 100 / 20hz ~82dB
POLK PSW350 - 99.8 / 25hz~82
VELODYNE FSR12 - 99.7 / 20hz
JAMO E 8sub - 99 / 25hz~ 86dB
VELODYNE VA1012 - 99 / 29hz
JBL PB10 - 99 / 25hz 82
POLK RMDS-1 - 98.6 / 25hz- 77
VELODYNE FSR10 - 98.4 / 20hz
BW asw2500 - 98 / 25hz~86dB
ENERGY ES12xl - 98 / 28hz *
Paradigm PDR10 - 98 / 25hz
PHASE tech power8 - 98 / 25hz~84
Polk psw250 - 97.3 / 32hz~91
ATHENA S3 - 97.0 / 25hz~87
Energy S8.2 - 97 / 25hz ~82
VELODYNE CT80 - 97.0 / 25hz~81
MIRAGE frx s10 - 97 / 25hz~84
JAMO sw505 - 97
Klispch KSW10 - 96.9 / 25hz~85
TANNOY PS110 - 96.8 / 20hz~71 / 25hz~84
CANTON AS25 - 96.8 / 25hz~80
MK V-1250thx - 96 / 25hz~86
Atlantic technology 4.5 - 96 / 25hz~82
ATHENA S2 - 96 / 25hz~87
ACI titan - 96dB / 25hz~80
PSB alphasubzero - 95.2 / 32hz~88
Aura Lss-107A - 95.2 / 25hz~73
Celestion cswII - 95 / 25hz~78
Paradigm 90P(towers) - 95 / 20hz
GALLO MPS-150 - 95.0 / 25hz~86
ENERGY ENCORE - 94.4 / 25hz~78
ENERGY XL8 - 94 / 25hz~78
POLK PS-120 - 94 / 32hz -no SPL given
Wharfedale Modus - 93.1dB
DEF TECH BP2002TL Tower - 92.3 / 25hz ~80(single tower)
Paradigm PD8 91.4 / 25hz~73dB
MK k9 - 90.1 / 25hz~77
Cerwin Vega hts15 - 89 (107 from 40-100hz) / 39hz
DEF TECH Pro Tower400 - 89 / 25hz~81d (single tower)
DEF TECH BP 2006TL Tower - 88.4 / 25hz ~73(single tower)
ATHENA P1 88.5/ 32hz~85.5

-----------the following use a 25-50hz range----------

Boston Acoustics VR2000 -109dB
Hsu Research 12V (150w) -106.5dB / 25hz - no SPL given
Cerwin Vega HT-PWR12 -105.9dB / 25hz - no SPL given
BW asw800 -105.1dB / 26hz - no SPL given
Klipsch SW12 series2 -104.6dB ~(32-50hz) / 32hz - no SPL given
ADS ms3 -104dB
Phase Technology 1.0 Octave -103.3dB / 25hz -no SPL given
Velodyne VA-1215x -102.6dB / 25hz - no SPL given
BAGEND 18" -102.5dB *
MK MX-125 101.8 - dB / 25hz - no SPL given
TRIAD Silver - 100.2dB / 25hz - no SPL given
PBS Subsonic III - 100.1dB / 25hz - no SPL given
SUNFIRE <100dB
MK V75 MarkII -98.1dB
Allison NL-5400P -96.4dB / 25hz -no SPL given
Altec Lansing PSW10 -95.5dB /32hz - no SPL given
KEF 30B AV - 93.5 dB ~(32-50hz) / 32hz - no SPL given





---the following use a 31hz to 63hz range.---


Boston Acoustics cr400 - 99dB / 25hz - no SPL given
Paradigm PS-1200 -98dB / 25hz~91.4dB **
Phase Technology power10 -98dB / 25hz-no SPL given
Acoustic Research S12ho - 97dB / 32hz-no SPL given
Mirage PS-12 - 96dB / 32hz -no SPL given
Sound Dynamics RTS-800 - 95dB / 32hz~92dB
MK vx-7 - 89dB / 32hz-no SPL given
Audiosource SW eleven - 88dB / 32hz~78dB

---the following use a 31hz to 80hz range.---


POLK psw150 - 105.4dB
MB Quart D1200si - 104dB
NHT sw 1p - 101.9dB
BOSE am15 bass module - 100dB / 32hz ~97dB
INFINITY BU120 - 100dB / 32hz~90dB
MIRAGE PS-8 - 99dB / 32hz~90.7dB
Sound Dynamics rts800 - 98dB
PSB Subsonic 1 - 97dB
Paradigm LEGEND tower(10"-100w built-in sub) -93.1dB


NOUSAINE's IB design - (12-63hz) - 120dB

The four DIY setups NOUSAINE reviewed in the
JAN-1999 AUDIO...(all 25-63hz)

RK(4-18s) - 126dB
TH(4-15s) - 116dB
RP(2-18s) - 107dB
TP(8-12s) - 123dB

----------------------
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Old 12-09-02, 09:03 AM
  #5  
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Thx, Icculus, I'll take a look at it, but frankly that subwoofer is just plain fugly. I like the ones with the little stubby feet on them that raise them up a little.


edit: It does have some very nice reviews at audioreview. I'll keep it in mind then.
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Old 12-09-02, 10:26 AM
  #6  
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I'm pretty happy with my Cambridge Soundworks Basscube 8. Only an 8" woofer, but it fills my space nicely without becoming boomy or distorting.

Look on eBay for auctions from seller "hifi.com". They are Soundworks' authorized clearance center, and have been selling these with $100 Buy-It-Nows.
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Old 12-09-02, 02:06 PM
  #7  
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I currently have a JBL PB12 and it does a great job, but there is a 10" model as well. I'm not sure if the 10" is in your price range though.
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Old 12-10-02, 06:45 AM
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I also have the polk PSW250, I get nice deep bass from it, considering what it cost. However, I have mine hooked up a little differently to you. I have mine setup with the front left and right channels from the reciever to the sub woofer inputs and then out to the left and right speakers from the sub woofer outputs, on the reciever I have fronts set to large and sub woofer to off. If you look in the PSW250 manual, you will see this is how Polk recommends you hook it up to get the best sound, I have actually tried it both ways, and I have to agree that this way does give a performance increase. Try hooking it up like this and see what you think. Also, Polk has a new model now, the PSW202, it lists for about $50 less than the 250, but that said if you got a good deal on the 250 I wouldn't worry about this.
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Old 12-10-02, 03:33 PM
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Originally posted by huzefa
Can somebody explain what these figures mean?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All figures are for a corner loaded subwoofer, 2 meter SPL mic distance,10%
distortion limit,and the SPLs have been averaged from the maximum output at
1/3 spacing at 25/31/40/50/63hz.


( * ) denotes a manual data adjustment applied by myself to compensate the
subwoofer from Nousaine's *small* room(2400) to his newer *large* room(7500).




STRYKE HE15 proto-type 115.3 / 16hz~99
VELODYNE F1800 - 111.9
VELODYNE FSR15 - 109.1 / 16hz~90.1 / 25hz~103.1
MISSION 700as - 108.1 / 25hz~102
VELODYNE HGS15 - 107.7 / 16hz~89.1
Paradigm PW2200 - 107.4 / 20hz~91(112.8dB peak)
Paradigm Servo15 - 107.3 / 27hz
VELODYNE SPL12 - 107.1 / 20hz ~90 /25hz ~ 99
HSU RESEARCH TN25(w/250w) - 107.1 / 30hz
HSU RESEARCH VTF-2 - 107.1 / 20hz~9325hz~99dB
----------------------
It looks like the first number is the maximum output. In the case of the Stryke, it's 115.3 dB.

The second two numbers are probably more important for the whole home theater experience. The second number is a frequency rating, and the third number is the output at that frequency. So the Stryle can put out (a rather incredible) 99dB at 16hz.

At very low frequencies, our ears do not pick up sound as well. For most people, at 20hz, you need at least 97hz or so to hear the sound. Most people cannot hear below 20hz. Below this point, you really "feel" the bass instead of hear it. A lot of the newer movies with great sound have sound information down below 20hz, some as low as 10hz or so. Remember the depth charges in U571? There's plenty of information below 20hz in that scene. Most low quality subwoofers will simply ignore this information, since it can't play it.

Ideally, you want a subwoofer with a generous, flat sound curve that extends to the 15-16dB range or lower. You want it to remain extremely powerful in the 20-30dB range to give movies that immersive quality. The cheapest non-DIY subs I know that can do this are from SVS.

Sound output (pressure) is on a logarithmic scale. Take a look at the Stryke and the Velodyne HGS15.

The Stryke puts out 99dB at 16hz. The HGS15 puts out 89.1. This means the Stryke puts out nearly 10x the sound pressure.

Last edited by gotapex; 12-10-02 at 03:36 PM.
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Old 12-10-02, 03:36 PM
  #10  
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Originally posted by gotapex
It looks like the first number is the maximum output. In the case of the Stryke, it's 115.3 dB.

The second two numbers are probably more important for the whole home theater experience. The second number is a frequency rating, and the third number is the output at that frequency. So the Stryle can put out (a rather incredible) 99dB at 16hz.

At very low frequencies, our ears do not pick up sound as well. For most people, at 20hz, you need at least 97hz or so to hear the sound. Most people cannot hear below 20hz. Below this point, you really "feel" the bass instead of hear it. A lot of the newer movies with great sound have sound information down below 20hz, some as low as 10hz or so. Remember the depth charges in U571? There's plenty of information below 20hz in that scene. Most low quality subwoofers will simply ignore this information, since it can't play it.

Ideally, you want a subwoofer with a generous, flat sound curve that extends to the 15-16dB range or lower. You want it to remain extremely powerful in the 20-30dB range to give movies that immersive quality. The cheapest non-DIY subs I know that can do this are from SVS.
SVS?
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Old 12-10-02, 03:37 PM
  #11  
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http://www.svsubwoofers.com/
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