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DLP vs. CRT and 1080i vs. 720p (noticeable difference?)

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DLP vs. CRT and 1080i vs. 720p (noticeable difference?)

Old 09-18-02, 01:10 PM
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DLP vs. CRT and 1080i vs. 720p (noticeable difference?)

i have been in the long and arduous process (for me anyway) of researching the various technologies in the hopes of buying a new television sometime in the next year. at this point i have pretty much decided that i will be going with a 16X9 rear projection set in a size range of 50" to 57". i have digital cable through time warner and they also provide about a half dozen channels in High Definition. most of my tv watching is cable, but i also try and watch a dvd or two per week. i am a casual gamer (ps2) and would also like to connect my pc to the new set. the tv must have a DVI input.

what i haven't figured out yet is whether i should go with the tried and true CRT technology or the new kid on the block DLP. while the future of DLP seems bright, i have some concerns at present.

currently, HD CRT sets can accept signals of up to 1080i (i am aware that due to the size of the crts in most sets they cannot actually resolve the full 1080 lines.) The latest DLP sets like the models from Samsung (and the soon to be release Optoma) use TI's latest DMD chip (named HD2 or mustang) and display everything in 720p.

so, my first question is assuming that you were shown a native 1080i image and a 720p image side by side (both fully resolved) would there be much of a difference? from what i understand the 720p with it's progressive signal does better with moving images and the 1080i looks better on static pictures. has anyone here seen them both together on various types of broadcasts or video?
how do the two compare?

secondly, considering that almost all HD broadcasts (with the exception of ABC) are done in 1080i, how much will these images suffer when the DLP sets have to downconvert them to 720p?

i love the fact that DLP sets will never suffer from burn-in. also, their brightness stays the same throughout practically the entire 8000 rated hours of the bulb. the super slim design (18" deep) and light weight (85lbs) makes it practical for a small apartment too.

on the downside, some small percentage of viewers are susceptible to the rainbow effect and there are complaints of a lack of shadow detail and color banding.

it seems like DLP has a lot to offer but i'm still on the fence. maybe i should wait for the next generation for the technology to mature. but if you keep playing the waiting game you never get anything!

what do you think?
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Old 09-18-02, 02:40 PM
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1. There will be very little difference between the two in terms of resolution, since 1080 on a CRT will in all likelihood be limited to about 1100x600 or so, and 1280x720 on the DLP. You are correct, the progressive picture will be a bit better for fast moving images (ie. sports).

2. It depends on the quality of the internal scaler. Some sets will have better scalers than others.
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Old 09-18-02, 03:34 PM
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I have yet to see a DLP that can match the black levels from a CRT. This next week I am going to CEDIA and will be able to look at all the new DLP's (with the new chip). I will let you know what I see.
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Old 09-18-02, 05:59 PM
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Make sure you peep out the new NEC HT1000 (3000:1 contrast).

NEC HT1000

Last edited by gotapex; 09-18-02 at 06:02 PM.
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Old 09-19-02, 10:57 AM
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Originally posted by gotapex
Make sure you peep out the new NEC HT1000 (3000:1 contrast).

NEC HT1000
that looks sweet! i know you love those front projectors. couple of questions about this model. while i don't see anything on the specs that directly states it is using the HD2 chip, i do see that it says Single Chip 12 degree DMD which sounds like it has to be the HD2 as the HD1 was only 10 degrees. but why is the maximum resolutions stated as 1024x768? that's not even 720 lines. also, what is the minimum throw distance for this projector? my room is only be about 13' deep and when you allow for the depth of the projector and the gap between the front wall and the screen i'm probably looking at about just over 11'.
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Old 09-19-02, 11:38 AM
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ok. found some info on that projector here and it does sound very nice. but i can't spend that kind of money ($5,000) on a projector, and if i could it would have to be a native 16x9 model. $3000 is my max. it's good to know the prices are dropping all the time though.
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Old 09-19-02, 05:34 PM
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You have to take those prices with a grain of salt. There are always better deals (dramatically better) to be had.

The HT1000 is not a HD2 chip. It's one of the new 12 degree black chips, which are all XGA native, unfortunately.

I'm sure there will be some good choices around your price range very soon. Have you checked out the TW100?
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Old 09-20-02, 10:33 AM
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Originally posted by gotapex
You have to take those prices with a grain of salt. There are always better deals (dramatically better) to be had.

The HT1000 is not a HD2 chip. It's one of the new 12 degree black chips, which are all XGA native, unfortunately.

I'm sure there will be some good choices around your price range very soon. Have you checked out the TW100?
do you reallly think the HT1000 will be available for much less than 5K? even so, i think i would rather hold out for an HD2 model that supports native 720p. any word on an HD3 chip that does 1080i? i've heard about a toshiba rear projection DLP set supposedly due out in the 4th quarter that will do 1080p...is that possible?
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Old 09-20-02, 12:42 PM
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Originally posted by broadwayblue
do you reallly think the HT1000 will be available for much less than 5K?
Almost certainly you will be able to get it for at least $1,000 less.
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Old 09-20-02, 03:55 PM
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Yeah, as Joshua said, there should definitely be a way to get it for easily under $5k. I just bought a Proxima 9270 last week for $2600, and it lists for $10,999. List price means very little.

HD2 models will probably be a better choice if you're going to watch HDTV. No word on HD3 yet.

Toshiba's soon to be released LCOS based 57" RPTV is supposed to be able to do 1080p, yes. It's the 57HLX82. LCOS technology beats the snot out of single chip DLP in my opinion, with >93% fill rate (compared with 88%), no rainbows, and far better colors.

Unfortunately, reports also say initial price is set at $9k. Also, rather unfortunately, all of the other LCOS based machines have failed to make it to market (JVC Dahlia, RCA's Selenium, Samsung) because of the extremely low LCOS/DILA yields. In all fairness, those other LCOS/DILA machines did use slightly different technology in the implementation, and that could have contributed to the failures, along with the fact that over time, technology should improve.

Here's more info on it:

http://www.toshiba.com/tacp/news/may_23_02_lcos.html

Apparently, rumor has it that the set will not be able to accept a 1080p input though. It can only accept upwards of 1080i, and then scale it to 1080p. You can not feed it 1080p with a better quality scaler (like the Faroudja DVP5000, HD Leeza, or Teranex) and just have it display native rate. Rumors can be wrong though.
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Old 09-27-02, 10:22 AM
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Originally posted by bfrank
I have yet to see a DLP that can match the black levels from a CRT. This next week I am going to CEDIA and will be able to look at all the new DLP's (with the new chip). I will let you know what I see.
any news from the show? it was this week, right?
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