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2.35:1 TV's in the future?

Old 07-10-02, 02:11 PM
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2.35:1 TV's in the future?

This post is more of a question to hear everyones thoughts than anything else.

I'm sure you all know that 16x9 widescreen movies were developed because (when the tv became popular) people didn't want to spend the money to go to the movies when they could watch thier tvs. The new 16x9 format was created to draw the movie fans again (i.e. A new way of watching movies).

Now that 16x9 widescreen tvs are becoming popular it seems like a lot of the DVD's I get are in 2.35:1 ratio!!!!!! It's kind of frustrating at times to know that I spent $4,000 on a tv to get rid of the black bars and half of my DVD's still have bars. I realize that it's much better than watching a 2.35:1 movie on a 3x4 tv, but still...

So my crazy brain was thinking, will they ever come out with 2.35:1 tv's? How cool would that be, to see Star Wars on a super long tv without black bars!!! Of course, the 16x9 movies would have to have black bars of the sides and I'd be back in the same boat! Argh!

I know! How about a liquid metal tv that morphs to the correct aspect ratio! Sweet! But not in this life time.
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Old 07-10-02, 02:27 PM
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Black bars never really bothered me, as long as I see movies in wide screen, i'll be pleased. The should ban all full-frame movies, unless originally filmes that way, like old Universal horror DVDs. I just bought a $2000 Sony TV. Although, not widescreen, black bars don't bother me-remember, I did it for HDTV w/ digital cable. I understand your reasons for anguish, but as long as I seen Star Wars sextology in widescreen, who cares for now?
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Old 07-10-02, 02:45 PM
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I really think 1.78:1 is a pretty good compromise between 1.33:1 (TV & full-frame material) and 2.35:1. Even though it seems like at least half of all DVDs are 2.35:1, watching regular TV(non-HD) on a 2.35:1 TV would be almost impossible. As it is, 1.85:1 movies fill my screen & TV material (non-HD) looks pretty good using one of the stretch modes (I detest gray bars and refuse to watch TV that way). If black bars bother you that much, I think your best bet would be to get a projector with a 2.35:1 screen. For $4,000 you could get a pretty nice one.
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Old 07-10-02, 02:51 PM
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I, too, think 1.78:1 is a pretty decent compromise. Once I save up enough cash for an ultimate HT, I'm getting myself a nice projector and screen.
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Old 07-10-02, 02:54 PM
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Re: 2.35:1 TV's in the future?

Originally posted by DarthMarklar
This post is more of a question to hear everyones thoughts than anything else.

Now that 16x9 widescreen tvs are becoming popular it seems like a lot of the DVD's I get are in 2.35:1 ratio!!!!!! It's kind of frustrating at times to know that I spent $4,000 on a tv to get rid of the black bars and half of my DVD's still have bars.
My thoughts? Anybody that spends $4000 without doing any research as to how it will work is an idiot. Did you seriously not ask if this would work? That sounds harsh, but good grief! Four thousand dollars!!

If it bothers you that much, take back the whole mess and go back to panandscan VHS.


So my crazy brain was thinking, will they ever come out with 2.35:1 tv's? How cool would that be, to see Star Wars on a super long tv without black bars!!! Of course, the 16x9 movies would have to have black bars of the sides and I'd be back in the same boat! Argh!
You just answered your question. There are too many aspect ratios to fit every one. 16x9 is a compromise that happens to fit them all with minimal usage of "black bars"

I know! How about a liquid metal tv that morphs to the correct aspect ratio! Sweet! But not in this life time.
I think a more plausible idea would be a projector with an adjustable lens. The black bars don't really bother me, I just think it would be a better use of the bulbs not having to project the black mattes on top and bottom or the sides.

And my DVD collection seems to have a pretty even distribution of ARs, from 1.33 to 2.35. Expand your horizons
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Old 07-10-02, 03:21 PM
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Originally posted by Xytraguptorh
....& TV material (non-HD) looks pretty good using one of the stretch modes (I detest gray bars and refuse to watch TV that way).
Do 4:3-framed movies / TV shows look that bad on a widescreen television? Doesn't that TV just have black bars on the side instead of on the top and bottom? What's the difference? And wouldn't stretching actually distort the 4:3 image?

I don't own a big TV yet (just a 32"), though I probably will buy one in the next year. I finally updated my stereo system to a brand new $2000 system....it sure is nice to actually be able to listen to DTS tracks...

David
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Old 07-10-02, 03:38 PM
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If they make 2.35:1 TV's, then when you play 1.85:1 DVDs, you'll have bars on the side.

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Old 07-10-02, 04:03 PM
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Q: 2.35:1 TV's in the future?

(short) A: No!

(long) A: Because... oh, fuggetit!...

. . . . . .
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Old 07-10-02, 04:22 PM
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Re: Re: 2.35:1 TV's in the future?

Originally posted by milo bloom


My thoughts? Anybody that spends $4000 without doing any research as to how it will work is an idiot. Did you seriously not ask if this would work? That sounds harsh, but good grief! Four thousand dollars!!

If it bothers you that much, take back the whole mess and go back to panandscan VHS.
Ummmmm, I never said I didn't do any research. I know exactly how it works. I bought my TV a while ago when they were more expensive. Besides, $4000 on a widescreen tv isn't that much!

When I first got my widescreen tv (a few years ago) it seemed most of my DVD's filled the 16x9, but now it feels like more and more movies are being made in 2.35:1 which adds the black bars on my 16x9 tv. Since getting rid of the bars was the main reason why I bought the tv, I just found it amusing that I'm back to black bars.

Please don't read any more into these comments than just a silly observation.

Also, the fact that I have burn in of Fox's logo into my screen (from watching too many Simpsons episodes), I've been worried about the black bars now. The tv company says to limit any activity involving static images (i.e TV logos, News Tickers, & Black Bars) to 15% of your viewing week. Hence, the frustration of spending a lot of money on a tv, having a lot of DVD's that still produce black bars from the 2.35:1 ratio, and having to do the math to make sure that I'm not watching them more than 15% of the week????

That's all
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Old 07-10-02, 04:32 PM
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The only thing I can suggest is to start looking for more 1.85 movies. Heck, start a new thread asking for people's favorite 1.85 movies. I'll start you off:

Jurassic Park 1 & 2
Aliens
Saving Private Ryan
Frank Herbert's Dune (Miniseries)

I just hope you don't refuse to watch any good movies just because they're 1.33 or 2.35.
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Old 07-10-02, 04:51 PM
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Originally posted by drindustrial

Do 4:3-framed movies / TV shows look that bad on a widescreen television? Doesn't that TV just have black bars on the side instead of on the top and bottom? What's the difference? And wouldn't stretching actually distort the 4:3 image?
Yes. 4:3 images get stretched to fill the screen. You can actually have the tv add grey bars to the right and left to give you a true 4:3 image, but I find the grey bars to be too bright and more annoying than the streched image. At first, it's a bit odd, but then you get used to it. Actually, I'm so used to it that when I watch TV on a 4:3 screen everything looks squashed

My tv also has a couple strech modes where you can expand the image (cutting off the top and bottom of the screen or a type of 'fish-eye' view where the center of the screen isn't streched, but the sides get streched - which I don't like because any camera pans make you dizzy and anyone to either side of the screen gets streched too much.

I've posted visual examples if you care to look:
http://marksdot.com/widescreen/

But to each his/her own
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Old 07-10-02, 05:21 PM
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Originally posted by Xytraguptorh
Even though it seems like at least half of all DVDs are 2.35:1...
Huh? How are you getting that? The bulk of widescreen discs are 1.85:1. Less than 25% are 2.35:1. The prefered aspect ratio for modern films is 1.85:1 so most discs are also in that AR.
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Old 07-10-02, 06:27 PM
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Originally posted by Surf Monkey


Huh? How are you getting that?
I'm mainly talking about the DVD's I own. It seems like a lot of the newer movies are 2.35:1, but that's just my opionion and not based on anything factual.
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Old 07-10-02, 09:08 PM
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Originally posted by Surf Monkey
Huh? How are you getting that? The bulk of widescreen discs are 1.85:1. Less than 25% are 2.35:1. The prefered aspect ratio for modern films is 1.85:1 so most discs are also in that AR.
That is completely inaccurate. There is no "preferred aspect ratio for modern films". There is just about an even 50/50 split between movies composed for 1.85:1 and those composed for 2.35:1 in current theatrical releases.

A handful of recent movies with a 2.35:1 ratio:

About a Boy
Attack of the Clones
The Bourne Identity
Dragonfly
Minority Report
Panic Room
The Scorpion King
Showtime
The Sum of All Fears
The Time Machine
We Were Soldiers
Windtalkers

That's just off the top of my head.
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Old 07-10-02, 09:16 PM
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Since this has nothing to do with DVD releases, I'm moving this to Hardware.
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Old 07-10-02, 11:13 PM
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Originally posted by Josh Z

A handful of recent movies with a 2.35:1 ratio:

About a Boy
Attack of the Clones
The Bourne Identity
Dragonfly
Minority Report
Panic Room
The Scorpion King
Showtime
The Sum of All Fears
The Time Machine
We Were Soldiers
Windtalkers
Josh, Thanks for the help.

Uh oh! We're discussing DVD's! Does this mean we're getting kicked out of the Hardware forum now? :P
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Old 07-11-02, 09:01 AM
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In a dark room, you won't even notice the black bars. They'll be camouflage.
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Old 07-11-02, 09:24 AM
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Originally posted by SINGLE104
In a dark room, you won't even notice the black bars. They'll be camouflage.
Not necessarily. Especially with a rear projection tv.
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Old 07-12-02, 02:23 AM
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Re: 2.35:1 TV's in the future?

Originally posted by DarthMarklar

Also, the fact that I have burn in of Fox's logo into my screen (from watching too many Simpsons episodes)
LOL
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Old 07-12-02, 08:01 AM
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If you could marklar your marklar, that may take care of the marklar. Just a suggestion.

das

P.S. 2.35:1 would be nice, but considering space requirements to get a good picture, I don't see too much market for it.
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Old 07-12-02, 09:46 AM
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Originally posted by das Monkey
If you could marklar your marklar, that may take care of the marklar. Just a suggestion.

das

P.S. 2.35:1 would be nice, but considering space requirements to get a good picture, I don't see too much market for it.
Thanks for the Marklar. I've Marklared my Marklar in the past, but my Marklar always ended up getting Marklared.

and yeah, I don't see much market for the 2.35:1 TV (...YET...), I was just figuring that directors will start producing all movies in that ratio to piss off all of the widescreen tv makers :-P I mean, why not, that's marketing for ya...and that's basically the reason for going with the 16x9 format to begin with.

p.s. The suggestion for the projector is a great one. Too bad I don't have the room for a big white wall, but that would be a great way to get that largest possible unstreched picture in any aspect ratio.
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Old 07-12-02, 05:39 PM
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It should also be noted that the reason the 16:9 aspect ratio was chosen for widescreen TVs is because it's an "ideal" mathematical compromise between the most common aspect ratios. In other words, it's just about halfway between 1.33:1 and 2.35:1, so no matter what ratio you're watching, only a small percentage of the screen will go unused as black bars.

If you watch 2.35:1 material on a 4:3 set, you have a large percentage of the screen unused; if you were to watch 1.33:1 material on a 2.35:1 TV, there would also be a large percentage of screen unused. But on a 16:9 screen, a much smaller percentage is unused if you're watching 1.33:1 or 2.35:1.
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Old 07-13-02, 09:58 AM
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Originally posted by Mr. Salty
It should also be noted that the reason the 16:9 aspect ratio was chosen for widescreen TVs is because it's an "ideal" mathematical compromise between the most common aspect ratios. In other words, it's just about halfway between 1.33:1 and 2.35:1, so no matter what ratio you're watching, only a small percentage of the screen will go unused as black bars.
In addition to that, from an engineering perspective 16:9 sets are easier to design and to maintain proper convergence.

16:9 = 4:3 cubed
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Old 07-13-02, 12:16 PM
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Originally posted by Josh Z


In addition to that, from an engineering perspective 16:9 sets are easier to design and to maintain proper convergence.

16:9 = 4:3 cubed
Best answer yet!
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Old 07-14-02, 11:29 AM
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Hey guys, as a filmmaker I would like nothing less for home theatre, but being realistic I doubt this will happen anytime soon.
Why? Folks have yet to upgraqde all of their existing 4x3 sets for
16:9 (1.85:1) sets. 2.35:1 would be great but think of what will happen to the presentaion of those film shot with a flat 35mm and even in academy ratio. There will be serious problems for most consumers as they must be aware of what a given film's asperct ratio is for proper playback.

Solution: buy a DLP front projection unit and screen with an electronic matte device, therefore all aspect ratio's are covered. Still the idea of 2.35:1 is terrific all the same, DarthMarklar.
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