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hachiman 05-17-02 11:01 AM

Widescreen TV's?
 
Am i right in saying that if you watch a Widescreen DVD or Video on a Widescreen TV that you don't see the Black Bars'but see it as it was originally seen at the Movies?

Thanx

Jadzia 05-17-02 11:13 AM

Only if the aspect ratio is 1:85:1 or less.

Movies with a 2:35:1 ratio (or higher) will still have black bars, although they wll be much smaller than on a standard (4:3) set.

rdodolak 05-17-02 11:14 AM

If the aspect ratio of the film is Anamorphic 1.78:1 then you wouldn't see any place bars. You will still see black bars for larger aspect ratios like 2.35:1, etc. but the black bars will be smaller than as seen on a conventional 4:3 television. For smaller ratios like 1.33:1 you will have vertical bars on the left and right of the picture. Of course you could always stretch or zoom in on the image to get rid of the bars but you will be losing picture.

Mark Holtz 05-17-02 11:15 AM

Even with a widescreen TV, films shot in the 2.35:1 ratio (such as The Matrix or Twister) will still display the black bars, albiet less noticable. Films and series shot in the 1.78:1 ratio (such as Enterprise, Angel, You've Got Mail, and The Fugitive) will not show the black bars and fill the whole screen.

zargon 05-17-02 11:18 AM

You still will get black bars on a wide screen TV, it just can't be avoided. There are too many aspect rations to deal with, so you still have the black bars. Of course it is going to be less, but they still are there. I don't even notice them on my 4:3 TVs, I don't see why everyone gets so pissed at this.

Foole 05-17-02 01:11 PM

Remember, the biggest advantage to using a 16x9 TV is to take advantage of anamorphically enhanced DVDs...the resolution you gain makes the pictures FAR superior to watching the same disc downconverted on a 4x3 set...

And if you don't like black bars, try watching with the lights off. The bars blend into the darkness and disappear completely (for 4x3 and 16x9 sets).

acostigan 05-17-02 01:18 PM

Here's what I thought...
If you have a 16x9 television, you need an anamorphic transfer to properly fill the display area. A regular widescreen DVD or video tape will have a 4:3 aspect ratio and give you black bands on the left and right, unless you have a zoom feature and use it.

-AC

Xytraguptorh 05-17-02 01:29 PM


Originally posted by acostigan
Here's what I thought...
If you have a 16x9 television, you need an anamorphic transfer to properly fill the display area. A regular widescreen DVD or video tape will have a 4:3 aspect ratio and give you black bands on the left and right, unless you have a zoom feature and use it.

-AC

All widescreen TVs have a zoom feature that can be used to eliminate vertical bars on the left and right sides of the image. I've never watched a (nonanamorphic) letterbox DVD or VHS tape "windowboxed". While they're not as good as anamorphic, letterbox movies still can look very good on a widescreen TV.

JimRochester 05-17-02 02:22 PM


Originally posted by acostigan
Here's what I thought...
If you have a 16x9 television, you need an anamorphic transfer to properly fill the display area. A regular widescreen DVD or video tape will have a 4:3 aspect ratio and give you black bands on the left and right, unless you have a zoom feature and use it.

-AC

On my Mitsubishi it is the expand feature which will fill the screen or most of it. Although the clarity is not as good as anamorphic, the ratio is correct so people aren't squishy and you don't have to reduce the size of the picture.

jflynn 05-17-02 02:23 PM


Originally posted by Xytraguptorh


All widescreen TVs have a zoom feature that can be used to eliminate vertical bars on the left and right sides of the image. I've never watched a (nonanamorphic) letterbox DVD or VHS tape "windowboxed". While they're not as good as anamorphic, letterbox movies still can look very good on a widescreen TV.

This actually becomes tricky for HDTV widescren sets being fed with a progressive scan (480p) DVD player. 480p looks VERY nice on a good HD set, but non-anamorphic material will have bars top/bottom and left/right ... unless your DVD player does auto-scaling.

The issue is that most HDTVs force to "full" mode when fed 480p (don't have the bandwidth to zoom at that scan rate, or otherwise simply don't zoom). Hence, you want a progressive scan DVD player that does auto-scaling. Trust me.

Furthermore, anyone with a widescreen HDTV who does not have a progressive scan DVD player or a deinterlacer with their interlaced DVD player is really missing out. The inetrnal line doubler in the HDTV does not compare to running 480p. Just my .05 folks.

zargon 05-17-02 02:59 PM


Originally posted by Foole
Remember, the biggest advantage to using a 16x9 TV is to take advantage of anamorphically enhanced DVDs...the resolution you gain makes the pictures FAR superior to watching the same disc downconverted on a 4x3 set...

With more and more 4x3 TVs coming out with some form of compression, having a 16x9 TV really isn't going to benifit you anymore for that.

Foole 05-17-02 03:04 PM


Originally posted by jflynn


This actually becomes tricky for HDTV widescren sets being fed with a progressive scan (480p) DVD player. 480p looks VERY nice on a good HD set, but non-anamorphic material will have bars top/bottom and left/right ... unless your DVD player does auto-scaling.

The issue is that most HDTVs force to "full" mode when fed 480p (don't have the bandwidth to zoom at that scan rate, or otherwise simply don't zoom). Hence, you want a progressive scan DVD player that does auto-scaling. Trust me.

Furthermore, anyone with a widescreen HDTV who does not have a progressive scan DVD player or a deinterlacer with their interlaced DVD player is really missing out. The inetrnal line doubler in the HDTV does not compare to running 480p. Just my .05 folks.


For the record, Toshiba 16x9 sets do NOT lock into FULL mode when fed a progressive signal...this helps with non/anamorphic DVDs and 4x3 DVDs. I can get away with using a Panasonic RP-56 DVD player which does not do scaling...I think Mitsubishi sets DO lock into full mode...any others that do or do not?

Static Cling 05-17-02 03:18 PM

Moving to Hardware.

jflynn 05-17-02 03:23 PM

Not sure about other makes, but the Panasonics do lock to full with 480p. Lucky you getting to use an RP56 with an HD display, I'm stuck with a JVC.

JimRochester 05-17-02 08:40 PM

Mitsubishi does not lock into full mode. The only thing it does not allow is 4:3 material to be stretched when using component video cables. So I have both component and an S-cable for 4:3.

hachiman 05-24-02 03:56 PM

Just got it.
 
Just got a Widescreen tv today.

Have 4 viewing modes.

Zoom/4:3/16:9 and letterbox.

The last 2 i am interested in.
16:9 seems like the old Widescreen on a normal tv screen apart from being Longer.

Letterbox seems the better version as it fills up most of the vertical and i only get small bars at the top and bottom.

In technical terms whats the difference and am i losing any Horizontal edges of the Movie'by expanding from 16:9 to Letterbox.

I am sure i saw slightly more on the edges in 16:9 than i see in Letterbox'though not a great deal.

JimRochester 05-25-02 09:49 AM

Re: Just got it.
 

Originally posted by hachiman
Just got a Widescreen tv today.

Have 4 viewing modes.

Zoom/4:3/16:9 and letterbox.

The last 2 i am interested in.
16:9 seems like the old Widescreen on a normal tv screen apart from being Longer.

Letterbox seems the better version as it fills up most of the vertical and i only get small bars at the top and bottom.

In technical terms whats the difference and am i losing any Horizontal edges of the Movie'by expanding from 16:9 to Letterbox.

I am sure i saw slightly more on the edges in 16:9 than i see in Letterbox'though not a great deal.


I'm just guessing here because I don't know the model, but comparing to my Mitsubishi; I also have zoom which continues to focus on the center of the screen but crops off equally around the edges.

4:3 puts gray bars on the sides to accomodate TV or any 1.33 material.

I also have stretched mode which takes 4:3 material and pull the sides out to fill the screen to avoid burn-in. Doesn't sound like you have this

My standard mode is for any anamorphic material be it 1.85 or 2.35 (2.35 will still have black bars top and bottom)

The last mode is expand which takes non-anamorphic material and vertically brings it back to it's correct ratio so it doesn't appear squished.

I would guess your 16:9 is my standard and letterbox is my expand but even if it's reversed, you get the idea. You shouldn't lose anything on the sides by switching from 16:9 to letterbox but to have the image appear correct vertically you'll need the right setting.

hachiman 05-25-02 04:14 PM

Widest Screen
 
My DVD Player is

LG DVD4210

The manual is available or download if you type model 4210 in the webpage from the Link Below

http://www.lge.com/c_product/e_refle...owmcode=GBRen1

The TV is LG RI-28CZ10RX

I have the manual'but can't find anything on the net about it at all.

I am in the UK.

The TV has 4 different screen sizes Zoom/4:3/16:9 & Letterbox.

The DVD has 3 different sizes 4:3Letterbox/4:3 Pan & Scan and 16:9 Widescreen.

On my Old 4:3 TV the Widescreen effect was given by having the Player on Letterbox.

So i assume that i also keep it on this for my New TV.

The question i have is that when i play a Widescreen DVD and the TV is on Zoom or 4:3 i see slightly(Just Slightly'but definately more at the edges) more than when i change the TV to 16:9 or Letterbox.

What i see when the TV is set to 4:3 or Zoom is a Perfect Rectangle in the middle of the screen surrounded on all 4 sides by a few inches of Black Bars.

When the TV is on 16:9 i see something similar to the old Widescreen effect on my old 4:3 TV.I see Black Bars at the Top and Bottom'and the Film plays across the Whole Horizontal Length.The Black bars are quite thick and the Film seems slightly squashed.

When the TV is on Letterbox it seems the Best.The Bars are still present but maybe only an inch thick.Also the film no longer seems squashed.

Whats annoying me is i when i see it played in the first 2 modes i can definately see slightly more at the edges than when it is played in the Latter Modes.

Any ideas ?

Thanx

JimRochester 05-25-02 05:11 PM

The DVD player should be set to 16:9. It is set to the TV not the material played on it. Set the TV to either 16:9 or letterbox depending on whether the widescreen movie is anamorphic or not. As far as the edges changing, that sounds more like overscan than the actual setting. I always assumed the overscan would remain constant but I'm not sure. It seems as though yours changes with the settings

hachiman 05-25-02 05:53 PM

Thanx for all replies.

It seems that Whats happening maybe normal going by the link.

http://www.dvdweb.co.uk/information/anamorphic.htm

It seems if i am reading this right that Widescreen Screens still are not as long as Cinema screens.

Their Screens are ratio 1:85 which means if a 1:85 Widescreen Video/DVD is played it fills the screen perfectly.

But if a 2:35 ratio video/DVD is played it still chops a little of the edges'but you still see most of it.

Is this correct?

Thanx

hachiman 05-26-02 04:50 PM

.
 
Managed to get my 2:35 DVD Fullscreen on a Widescreen TV by having the Player on 16:9 and the TV on Letterbox.

Don't seem to have lost too much on the edges.

agent2099 05-26-02 05:21 PM

Re: .
 

Originally posted by hachiman
Managed to get my 2:35 DVD Fullscreen on a Widescreen TV by having the Player on 16:9 and the TV on Letterbox.

Don't seem to have lost too much on the edges.

When will people learn that it's not about filling up your t.v. but getting the full OAR image.

hachiman 05-26-02 05:47 PM

.
 
Well People won't Learn unless people like you Teach us Agent2099.

I'm not sure what OAR is so could you Pass some of your Wisdom this way.

Did some experiments as i'm still getting my head round this so please be patient with me.

DVD Player is set to Widescreen 16:9.

Get the Full Movie'but with the bars on all 4 sides on 4:3 and Zoom TV settings.

But it's the next 2 that interested me.

The 16:9 and Letterbox TV Settings'both gave very slightly less on the edges than the Previous 2 settings.

But the Letterbox setting lost some of the Bottom and Top edges too'by filling the screen'compared to the 16:9 setting.

So to see most of the film i want it on 16:9 on the TV'which will fill the screen Horizontally.I may lose a little of the edges compared to the 4:3 and Zoom settings'but unlike the Fullscreen Letterbox setting i won't lose any of the vertical picture.

JimRochester 05-27-02 01:11 PM

A 16:9 TV is actually 1.78:1 ratio. A 1.85:1 should fill it or at the most have tiny black bars. A 2.35:1 movie will still have bars, mine are maybe 2" top and bottom. If it is any more and the people are squished, the image is non-anamorphic so you need to switch to the other setting. If you have a 2.35:1 filling the screen, the people are probably stretched tall. Anything that has to do with the sides has more to do with overscan than ratio. All TV's project a small portion of the available image to the extreme edge of the screen not visible from the front.


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