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Bose using deceptive tactics?

Old 03-19-02, 12:01 PM
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Alternatives to Bose Acoustimass?

I bought the Acoustimass 15 as a compromise between my wife and I. She wanted decent home theater speakers but will not tolerate BIG TOWER speakers and subwoofers that take a chunk of space. Thus, we got the Bose Acoustimass 15. The satellite cube speakers hang from our ceiling, no fear of it getting kicked, dropped, or pushed over by our friend's demon kids that frequently visit unannounced (why they're still our friends, I don't know). The sub sits in a corner, protected from the harsh beating that those little brats can muster. My DVD collection is not so lucky since they get thrown all over the floor on each visit (again, why they're still our friends, I don't know).

Anyway, these Bose speakers have been pretty decent for what we use them for. At the time when I purchased them, I was not even considering these itty, bitty, little speakers so I really have no reference to compare them with. In other words, I am not aware of any other alternatives to these satellite speakers that would sound comparable or even better, and would mount similarly. Does anyone have suggestions?

P.S. Hate is such a strong word. Remember what Yoda said:
"Fear leads to Anger. Anger leads to Hate. Hate leads to Suffering". Oh yeah, I heard those on my Acoustimass...
Old 03-19-02, 12:06 PM
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In other words, I am not aware of any other alternatives to these satellite speakers that would sound comparable or even better, and would mount similarly. Does anyone have suggestions?
The marketing hype that Bose did create has also helped other companies create smaller speaker packages.

Some companies that make them are Boston Acoustics, PSB, Definitive Technology, Polk and Atlantic Technology.

There maybe others.

Try this link for starters

http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/S...=4&s=0&g=12700
Old 03-19-02, 02:42 PM
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Anyone have experience on alternatives?

Thanks to Brian for listing some alternatives.

Does anyone have experiences with any of the alternatives? Do you have any reviews to share, like magazine reviews, etc? I mean, before I start packing up my Acoustimass 15 and try to sell in on eBay (not that I will, but you'll never know), I kinda want to get a better perspective on how the alternatives measure up. Thanks.
Old 03-19-02, 02:50 PM
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Re: Anyone have experience on alternatives?

Originally posted by crikeycrapper
Thanks to Brian for listing some alternatives.

Does anyone have experiences with any of the alternatives? Do you have any reviews to share, like magazine reviews, etc? I mean, before I start packing up my Acoustimass 15 and try to sell in on eBay (not that I will, but you'll never know), I kinda want to get a better perspective on how the alternatives measure up. Thanks.
Personally I have listened to Polk, Boston Acoustics and Definitieve Technology.

I do not own these types of speakers for my home theater.

It should be futher mentioned that I have never known a store that would allow a comparison between Bose and another product.

That alone should be telling you something.
Old 03-20-02, 12:44 PM
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edclem: How can Bose produce such an inferior product at such an inflated price and become such a large profitable company? How can such an inferior company and products be so heavily lauded by many of the coveted stereo and hi-fi magazines? Is that all due to the company's marketing prowess? Were the boards for Madison Square Garden, Staples Center, and the Superdome ignorant people heavily blinded by Bose's marketing skills? How about NASA? Were they ignorant in using Bose speakers within their Space Shuttle? Or was that another brain washing come on by the marketers. It probably had nothing to do with the years of research and technology that Bose was selected right? It also probably had nothing to do with the fact that Bose probably sounded the best to those people. If you truly believe that Bose can sell so much product to such a many different type of people because of how it is marketed, then the ignoramous....is you. By the way I also have a pet unicorn. And, don't worry, I have many other examples were Bose is used. Don't think that's the end of the list.

TheKobra: Bose sucks? Well I guess that if your definition of "mids" extends from 30Hz to 20KHz(lifestyle systems), then you are correct. You really show your intelligence. I think it be prudent for you to just read instead of post. Remember that the only impressions that others can take of you is from what they read here in the forums.

stevevt: Thanks for the welcome. As I believe you are the moderator, I will let you know that I am not on here because of the fact that I need to back up Bose. Bose can do that better by themselves since they keep expanding even due to the negative nature of some people. I am just stymied by the amount of people who can produce such a strong emotion with nothing to found their opinions. There is absolutely no problem with people disliking the sound of Bose. Everyone hears differently. Bose is not for everyone...neither is Mark Levinson.

Jason: Where has there ever been ANYTHING printed saying that Bose cubes were supposed to be as good as or better than pro-line speakers? That's correct, nowhere? Did you know that pro audio and consumer home theater speakers require different technology to create? Do you think that the acoustics of someone's home is the same as the Cistine Chapel? By the way, Bose speakers are in there as well. There is not a single company out there that will measure their consumer electronics with those of pro audio. It isn't done.

bluesman: Why does written frequency response matter to you? Can you tell me what a speaker sounds like from just looking at a frequency response? Is it bragging rights? Do you listen to pink noise in 10Hz increments? Isn't it more important for you to listen with your own ears and feel with your heart than look at what's on paper? If your idea of good sounds extends to what is written on paper, then you haven't understood what good sound is. Don't be a lemming. By the way, if you look hard enough, and ask enough people, you will be able to find the frequency response for that speakers you ask of.
Old 03-20-02, 01:42 PM
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I will stand by my opinion on Bose products.

Until I can find a store that will allow a true a/b comparison of Bose products to others I base my dislike on their performance, their cost and their inability to easily intergrate with other audio products.
Old 03-20-02, 05:02 PM
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Brian: Inability to easily connect to other audio product. Can you elaborate more than that? Are you talking regular speakers, or are you talking about lifestyle systems. Regular speakers will connect to components in the usual fashion. Why are lifestyle systems so hard to integrate with other components? They are based on the same inputs and outputs of "regular" receivers.
Old 03-20-02, 07:26 PM
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Originally posted by sunnyinsocal
bluesman: Why does written frequency response matter to you? Can you tell me what a speaker sounds like from just looking at a frequency response? Is it bragging rights? Do you listen to pink noise in 10Hz increments? Isn't it more important for you to listen with your own ears and feel with your heart than look at what's on paper? If your idea of good sounds extends to what is written on paper, then you haven't understood what good sound is. Don't be a lemming. By the way, if you look hard enough, and ask enough people, you will be able to find the frequency response for that speakers you ask of.
This wasn't directed at me, but I'd like to reply to this part of your post.
Alot of the things you said were apparently driven by anger, and are on pretty much the same level as the 'Bose bashers' who flame without any backup to their claims. The 'Bose praisers' seem to do the opposite, blindly defending their choice in speakers while ignoring the fact that Bose products simply cannot live up to the mountain of hype pushed behind them.
Is the fact that NASA uses Bose products on the space shuttle a ringing endorsement? Hardly. I seriously doubt high-quality audio is a prime concern when your in a freakin' tube hurtling through outer space, have about 80 million beeping, flashing lights all around you and communication equipment in your ears constantly. Yeah, high-quality speakers are a big deal to astronauts.
Can I hear what a speaker sounds like by looking at the frequency response? No, but I can damn sure tell what it can't do, before listening to it. That's all fine and dandy that it can put out an underwhelming 30hz, but too bad the owners of these systems has no clue what titles such as The Phantom Menace, The Haunting, Saving Private Ryan and Toy Story 2 really sound like. I guess I can't list the dts versions for these titles, anyway, can I? Or does Bose even support dts yet? Thought so. Even if they did...you still could not hear these powerful soundtracks as they were intended to be heard.
It has nothing to do with 'bragging rights' or other such nonsense, it's simply a matter of hearing something the way it was to meant to be heard, and at reference levels, something no Bose product can do. Period. There are tons of other products that can't do this either, but I don't see ads for them claiming to 'replace those larger speakers, and get the same effect' nonsense, either.
My idea of what sounds good has nothing to do with whats on paper, it's simply a matter of real-world testing, and Bose fails...every time.
Again, we all have the choice to buy what we want, but don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining. 5 cubes and a (don't call it a subwoofer!) bass module have no business making the claims that they do.
Cheers.
Old 03-21-02, 02:16 AM
  #34  
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DVD_O_rama: Great sharing the same forum with you. Cheers to you as well. However, you seem to have forgotten to whom I was referring to. My point to the past couple posts have been "to back it up." Never have I said that I was a blinding supporter of Bose. Bose as all companies have their faults. By the way, yes, they do support DTS. If Bose speakers fail in real world testing as you claim, then why are these systems moving in the way they do? These speakers and systems accomplish much with very few green back compared to many other systems. As I wrote once before, Bose is not for everyone. However, there are many people out there who will call it their own and never go anywhere else. Why do you ask? It's not because these people are ignorant, they search just like anyone else. What they found is that Bose offers the best value for their dollar. Are there better systems out there? Of course. How many of them are for the same price or less? This is where the chorus will give me a list of systems that are less price. That isn't the point. The people who purchase these systems have heard something that made them decide on a Bose system with their hard earned money. I believe that says a lot.
Space Shuttle, NASA. You are going to tell me that it's not impressive that the space program funded by the United States uses Bose speaker technology? Also, if you read in my last post, it wasn't for the speaker sound why I used NASA as an example. I have no idea what they are using those speaker systems for. I listed NASA as I did others because I wanted the others on this forum to know that Bose was being selected not by ignorant people, but has a very impressive client list. Are Bose ever going to be my first choice if I have the money? No. There are other speakers that I would rather have. As I have said time and time again, I am not here to be a supporter of Bose, but wanted people to back up their opinions with other than, they suck. They could have been talking about PSB and I would have said the same thing. Bose offers a great value for many people on this world. It may not be you, but it may be the guy who lives next door to you. Get over it.

As far as the frequency response, if you read over what I wrote in the last post, you will be able to come up with the correct point behind that statement. The point is that paper is not everything. Your ears are everything.
Old 03-21-02, 06:17 AM
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Originally posted by sunnyinsocal
If Bose speakers fail in real world testing as you claim, then why are these systems moving in the way they do?
Just because something is popular doesn't make it the best, or even decent. Otherwise, McDonald's would be the finest restaurant in the world.

When you are trying to sell to the average person, marketing is very important. Bose, to their credit, understands this incredibly well.
Old 03-21-02, 07:16 AM
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Originally posted by sunnyinsocal
Brian: Inability to easily connect to other audio product. Can you elaborate more than that? Are you talking regular speakers, or are you talking about lifestyle systems. Regular speakers will connect to components in the usual fashion. Why are lifestyle systems so hard to integrate with other components? They are based on the same inputs and outputs of "regular" receivers.
I have seen many peole attempting to use Bose cubes by themselves, Bose bass modules by themselves and even 901 in a home theater setup. It is very difficult if not impossible to make this equipment function with other audio components. I also have seen entire Bose systems ripped out of cars because you cannot integrate other aftermarket car audio components.
Old 03-21-02, 08:27 AM
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Originally posted by sunnyinsocal
You are going to tell me that it's not impressive that the space program funded by the United States uses Bose speaker technology?
I'll tell you why I think it's not impressive... NASA probably accepted bids for the job. With the government, the lowest bidder usually gets the job. I doubt they looked very heavily into music reproduction.

In the case of the stadiums, again there is bidding for the job. Bose spends more on marketing than any other speaker company and probably see these as marketing opportunities, and are thus willing to take a loss to secure the contract.
Old 03-21-02, 08:34 AM
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Originally posted by stevevt


Just because something is popular doesn't make it the best, or even decent. Otherwise, McDonald's would be the finest restaurant in the world.
Old 03-21-02, 09:39 AM
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I've very happy with my Acoustimass 10 system I got new, shipped from Bose for $540
Old 03-21-02, 09:54 AM
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You are going to tell me that it's not impressive that the space program funded by the United States uses Bose speaker technology? Also, if you read in my last post, it wasn't for the speaker sound why I used NASA as an example. I have no idea what they are using those speaker systems for
Do you believe these are for music reproduction or voice reproduction? A huge difference especially when it comes to the audio quality for someone who wants high quality musical reproduction.
Old 03-21-02, 12:27 PM
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Originally posted by Brian Shannon


I have seen many peole attempting to use Bose cubes by themselves, Bose bass modules by themselves and even 901 in a home theater setup. It is very difficult if not impossible to make this equipment function with other audio components. I also have seen entire Bose systems ripped out of cars because you cannot integrate other aftermarket car audio components.
Brian, are you saying that if I get a Dolby EX/DTS ES receiver that supports more than the 5.1 configuration, my Acoustimass will not enable me to add additional Bose cube speakers? I've been looking at EBay for the additional cube speakers as a lot of sellers put a pair of these for bidding. I was under the impression that the cubes can be used as separate speakers on their own, or am I wrong?
Old 03-21-02, 12:37 PM
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Originally posted by crikeycrapper


Brian, are you saying that if I get a Dolby EX/DTS ES receiver that supports more than the 5.1 configuration, my Acoustimass will not enable me to add additional Bose cube speakers? I've been looking at EBay for the additional cube speakers as a lot of sellers put a pair of these for bidding. I was under the impression that the cubes can be used as separate speakers on their own, or am I wrong?
I honestly do not know if your Acoustimass will alow you to add additional speakers. I do not believe the cubes can be used by themselves however.

More to the point, this in itself is part of the problem. Why is Bose different? I can buy any number of electronic components and speakers and know that they will work together.

Perhaps someone who owns one of these or is familiar with its specifications could comment.

Good luck.

Here is a link

http://forums14.consumerreview.com/c...14.yveMaI6FaDh^[email protected]/0


"If you want to keep these speakers, you MUST keep the bass module because most true subwoofers are only designed to give sustained output up to about 150-200 Hz, and should be set up to roll off well before then. Also, the crossover built into the bass module protects the drivers in the cube units from damage; because the cube units are not designed to handle even moderate low frequencies, you can blow them if you connect them directly to the receiver."

I cannot verify this information, I just happened to find it

Last edited by Brian Shannon; 03-21-02 at 12:55 PM.
Old 03-21-02, 02:47 PM
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About the whole McDonalds and popularity questions. You guys completely missed sunny's point. His point was not that if it's popular it's "the finest." His point was if it's popular a lot of people like it. McDonalds is very popular. That doesn't mean they make the best hamburgers and fries. It means a hell of a lot of people do like their hamburgers and fries. Bose is very popular. It does not mean that Bose makes the best speakers and systems. It means a hell of a lot of people like Bose systems and speakers. That was his point.


DVD_O_Rama - Rarely have I seen you make an uneducated statement about anything, yet you did with the DTS. Yes, it is DTS, DD, and Videostage 5.

To answer concerns about adding cubes, no you cannot simply add a cube to any system. Part of the smallness in the speakers is achieved by putting the crossovers in the bass modules. If you wanted to go 6.1 or 7.1, we would suggest adding a center speaker and moving the center cube to the rear for 6.1. And we would suggest a pair of 161's or something for the side speakers for 7.1.
Old 03-21-02, 04:40 PM
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Originally posted by Bose Pro
About the whole McDonalds and popularity questions. You guys completely missed sunny's point. His point was not that if it's popular it's "the finest." His point was if it's popular a lot of people like it. McDonalds is very popular. That doesn't mean they make the best hamburgers and fries. It means a hell of a lot of people do like their hamburgers and fries. Bose is very popular. It does not mean that Bose makes the best speakers and systems. It means a hell of a lot of people like Bose systems and speakers. That was his point.
(Defending my reading comprehension...)

Actually, I brought up the McDonalds analogy. And when I did, I quoted the relevant part of sunny's post:

"If Bose speakers fail in real world testing as you claim, then why are these systems moving in the way they do?"

He asked why Bose speakers are popular, and implying that popularity is a criteria for measuring quality.


Originally posted by Bose Pro

To answer concerns about adding cubes, no you cannot simply add a cube to any system. Part of the smallness in the speakers is achieved by putting the crossovers in the bass modules. If you wanted to go 6.1 or 7.1, we would suggest adding a center speaker and moving the center cube to the rear for 6.1. And we would suggest a pair of 161's or something for the side speakers for 7.1.
BP,

I really do appreciate that you frequent this forum despite the obvious anti-Bose sentiment that prevails here. I was hoping you'd chime in with the answer to the 6.1/7.1 questions, and there you were. Thanks.
Old 03-25-02, 10:42 AM
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Originally posted by Bose Pro
To answer concerns about adding cubes, no you cannot simply add a cube to any system. Part of the smallness in the speakers is achieved by putting the crossovers in the bass modules. If you wanted to go 6.1 or 7.1, we would suggest adding a center speaker and moving the center cube to the rear for 6.1. And we would suggest a pair of 161's or something for the side speakers for 7.1.
Thanks for the response, Bose Pro.
Old 03-27-02, 03:18 PM
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I'm almost afraid to post this.

About 20 years ago while browsing in a Sear's store in Lansing, Michigan I stumbled upon a listening room set up with what looked like floor-standing speakers, a receiver on a covered table, a cassette deck, and a bunch of chairs facing the set-up. It was a Bose demonstration.

I knew nothing about Bose except for a few things I'd read in Stereo Review magazine about Aimar (sp?) Bose. So, I sat down among about three other people.

A salesman turned on the receiver and fired up the cassette deck, playing some I-can't-remember classical piece. Really decent, big sound coming from those floor-standing speakers.

After about two minutes, the salesman whipped the cloth covers off the floor-standings. There on pedistals were the little Bose satelite speakers. Under the table was the acoustimas module.

I was impressed with the quality of the sound and how full it sounded.

I never bought the Bose. At the time, it just seemed "wrong" to plunk down $500 for speakers that would fit in a shoebox. Just a snob, I guess.

I have good friends with pretty good ears who bought the "Wave" radio and just love the sound they get out of it. I've heard it, too, and it's pretty impressive for a tabletop radio.

I've never thought Bose was misleading in its advertising. I just thought they were a bit high-priced. On the other hand, I've never taken apart my floor-standing Dalquists to see how much hardware I actually bought. Maybe the Bose speakers are a bargain.

No product satisfies everyone. I just try to keep an open ear.

Peace and prosperity to all.
Old 03-27-02, 05:37 PM
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Originally posted by DVD_O_Rama


Ahhh...real-world measurements. I find these much more revealing then any manufacturer's specs.
So, bfrank...since you said you tested the system at work, could you please explain how it was tested. What type of room, any SPL measurements, where they were taken from, source material, frequency response, etc. would me most appreciated. Thanks.
And could you please elaborate on the 'tons of eq designed in', and 'many manufacturers do' claims, as I'm not quite sure what you mean. Thanks again.


Maybe a bit of my background-

I was Supervisor of Mechanical Design for Infintiy for 11 years and now I am with another large consumer electronics company. I am not some guy that posted here based on my perceptions of this product. As BosePro could tell you I have been very hard on Bose in past posts for many of the reasons posted. But I also base my opinions on years of market experience.

As for the measurements - I do not do them so I will tell you the basics and if you would like more info you can email me.

We have a large anechoic chamber that is accurate to below 100Hz. We use gated measurements and summing via MLS (Melissa) measurement system. I can assure you it is a world class measurment system.

I am not claiming that these cubes are not a compromise but they are in fact very well engineered. You should also know that while Bose puts marketing first in product the do have many very good engineers.

If you want to bag on Bose there is plenty of areas that would be justified but the topic in this thread is a bit of the joke.

Any engineer knows that with a powered system you can shape the response. You would be making a mistake to not use this option to improve the response. This system has EQ applied. Like mentioned in other posts here this is a system and is design to take advantage of this. Playing it with other equipment would only hurt the sound.
Old 03-28-02, 10:38 AM
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Originally posted by bfrank




Maybe a bit of my background-

I was Supervisor of Mechanical Design for Infintiy for 11 years and now I am with another large consumer electronics company. I am not some guy that posted here based on my perceptions of this product. As BosePro could tell you I have been very hard on Bose in past posts for many of the reasons posted. But I also base my opinions on years of market experience.

As for the measurements - I do not do them so I will tell you the basics and if you would like more info you can email me.

We have a large anechoic chamber that is accurate to below 100Hz. We use gated measurements and summing via MLS (Melissa) measurement system. I can assure you it is a world class measurment system.

I am not claiming that these cubes are not a compromise but they are in fact very well engineered. You should also know that while Bose puts marketing first in product the do have many very good engineers.

If you want to bag on Bose there is plenty of areas that would be justified but the topic in this thread is a bit of the joke.

Any engineer knows that with a powered system you can shape the response. You would be making a mistake to not use this option to improve the response. This system has EQ applied. Like mentioned in other posts here this is a system and is design to take advantage of this. Playing it with other equipment would only hurt the sound.
Well then...not sure what the "" was for, as I simply asked for some measurements, which you still did not provide, but it's moot at this point anyway.
Nice to hear your credentials and your work environment, but since you've been in the business you should know that no one lives in an anechoic chamber. That's why I stressed real-world measurements, with an SPL meter. I could care less what anechoic measurments are, as they are some of the misleading specs some manufacturers claim in their marketing, which in turn end up being near-useless in a large room with openings and/or high celings (such as mine).
You stated 'they have a good response', and I asked what that was. In your reply, you didn't answer that, and even said you didn't know what it was. Hmmmm. Ok then.
I am not 'bagging' on Bose at all. I just have to wonder when people claim 'it sounds good' and 'listen with your ears'... if they have ever heard a real home theater/music setup? I can surely tell you they haven't heard Bose A/B'ed against anything else in any store, though. I wonder why?
Just a thought.
Old 03-28-02, 11:02 AM
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Sorry about the laugh, Let me give you a little more detail then-

A gated measurement eliminates the room so chamber or not is moot - all you are measuring is the speaker. You shut the mic off before any reflections can reach it. This is the only way you can compare any speaker. It is the lowest common denominator. Any room measurement would be measuring the room also and all rooms are different.

When I say "good" I mean close to flat which you can take for what you will, but I will assure you for a 3" full range it is well engineered. You dont need to respect that opinion but it is based in science not conjecture.

The measurement with a SPL meter is only measuring peak output and has nothing to do with tonal quality. There is no engineer that would design a speaker based on in room measurements however we all do listening in the design process.

I no longer have the measurements and would not be allowed to post then online if I did. I not sure why you want to challenge our measurements or there outcome? All I can tell you is the people that made them have design some of the best speakers in the world and they know what they are doing.

Again I will also tell you that I have been a vocal critic of Bose on other topics - as BosePro could tell you. I not here to change your view about this product. Just wanted to add some details among what I see as a bunch of disinformation.

Take it for what you will
Old 08-21-02, 04:01 PM
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Firstly, I am new here, so I am sorry if I step on any toes or overlook any forum rules in this post, but that's what the moderator's are for. :-)

Originally posted by sunnyinsocal
Okay, none of this was directed to me (how could it be, I am new here as of today) but I feel that this whole paragraph is filled with some of the worst logic I have seen. I am only going to pick at some of the more glaring problems with your defense for now.

How can Bose produce such an inferior product at such an inflated price and become such a large profitable company?
Using the argument "A company is profitable" to equate to "a company makes a great product" is simply horrid. Profit is made by selling a product at a higher cost than what is needed for production and marketing and everything else that goes into the creation and distribution of said product. The higher the margin between production costs and the final price, the larger the profit. Your question answers itself; selling a lot of a product at an inflated price creates a large profitable company...

The quality of the product has very little to do with profit, instead the percieved quality is all that matters. If the public believes (through effective advertising, stellar reviews, name recognition, past accolades, whatever) that a product is worth buying, they will buy it. In a maket where the product is highly subjective or technical, name recognition becomes much more important than the actual performance.

This can be seen clearly by some of the associations that the majority of people hold as writ regardless of actual performances. Many people associate Bose with the best audio systems, and Sony with excellent televisions just like they associate Intel with making the best CPU's and Microsoft with creating the only Operating System without even considering if alternatives exist. The truth may be very different from the performance facts, but the perceptions are all that matter.

People who aren't willing to spend hours doing research will buy what they "know" to be the best available product, and marketing is how a company will convice people that what they offer is the best. Very few companies will advertise that they have the third of fourth best product, most will choose (or even skew) benchmarks and tests to place their product at the top.

That is marketing, that is how marketing works. When the public wants a product that your company provides, your goal in marketing is to make them associate the product with your company. To ignore the facts and make a statement like "Bose makes the best stuff because they sell a lot of it" is horribly flawed and lacking in any kind of factual merit.

Were the boards for Madison Square Garden, Staples Center, and the Superdome ignorant people heavily blinded by Bose's marketing skills? How about NASA? Were they ignorant in using Bose speakers within their Space Shuttle? Or was that another brain washing come on by the marketers. It probably had nothing to do with the years of research and technology that Bose was selected right? It also probably had nothing to do with the fact that Bose probably sounded the best to those people.
and later...

By the way, Bose speakers are in {the Cistine Chapel} as well.
The problem with this argument is that it ignores the fact that the company who wins these types of bids can then use that as free advertising. Large companies will often take huge initial losses to place their product into an area of high public attention. The new Patriot's stadium is known as the "Gillette Stadium" for one reason, and one reason only... Gillette was willing to pay more money to put their name their than anyone else in order to get free advertising out of the deal.

Having Bose as the "speaker of choice" for Nasa is something that sounds prestigious to the public. Having Bose speakers in any of the stadiums that you mentioned also is something that Bose can then turn around and use for advertising purposes. It really IS all about Bose's marketing skills that Bose is present in each of their locations. They won the bids.

Besides, in none of the applications you have listed will the speakers be used for reproducing orchestral quality music. Playing thumping dance music at a X-ball (insert foot, base, or basket as applicable) game is hardly a telling example of the quality of the audio equipment. Having the Pope read the scriptures over the Bose loudspeaker doesn't make use of the full audio spectrum nor show off the range of the equipment used. You were right in saying that the Bose solution "sounded the best to those people"; I am sure that the ka-ching of the cash register was larger with Bose than with anyone else.

I am just stymied by the amount of people who can produce such a strong emotion with nothing to found their opinions.
and later...

Why does written frequency response matter to you?
and still later...

Isn't it more important for you to listen with your own ears and feel with your heart than look at what's on paper?
And all of your emotions are founded in... not opinions? To summarize your argument to this point: You prefer bose quality, others don't. You are of the opinion that they sound good, others do not share that opinion with you. Basically, you are emotionally defending something you feel strongly (or to put in another way: have an opinion) about. Yet while you do in fact have an emotional response based on opinion, the fact that others do this as well confuses you... is that correct?

All of your emotional responses seem to be based solely on opinion. You have provided very few facts to counter other forum members arguments and questions. Many of your "facts" are simple half truths. Can you provide some document from NASA which states why they used Bose? You assume it is because of years of research that NASA did yet you provide no facts to back up that claim. Can you provide similar documents about the Cistine Chapel, or any of the stadiums you mention? Can you say what the motivating reason (with absolute certainty) was for the stadium owners to go with Bose speakers? Your complaint is invalidated by the fact that you are not adhering to the rules by which you wish others to abide.

You encourage people to be completely subjective and not use facts at all when making an opinion about Bose. Judging just by your first statment, it would seem that you take issue with the fact that the other forum members arguments seem not to be based on hard facts. While this is a good and unbiased argument strategy, you disreguard all hard facts in your next two statements. Are you in favor of others using hard facts in their arguments or not? I can't tell.

Basically your argument has left me feeling like you are Bible thumping for Bose and not doing what you set out to do, namely convince anyone to change their opinion.

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