DVD & Home Theater Gear Discuss DVD and Home Theater Equipment.

EX/ES system owners?

Old 02-03-02, 10:45 PM
  #1  
DVD Talk Special Edition
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Camp Crystal Lake
Posts: 1,982
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
EX/ES system owners?

I was curious how many of you who frequent this forum have 6.1 ES/EX surround set-ups, with one or more rear center channel speakers.
I flirted with the idea a while back when the Denon 3801 first hit the market, but decided it wasn't worth it with my less-then-perfect set-up for center surround speaker(s).
Well, I still have the same room layout, but have decided to see what some of you guys have and find out if there might be someone else out there in my situation (akward room layout) and was able to make it work.
So, if you have an ES/EX set-up, and you have pics... please post 'em, and if you don't have any pics to share just tell me about your system and and your experiences with it.
Thanks in advance.

Cheers,
Erik the Red
Old 02-04-02, 08:47 AM
  #2  
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Naperville, IL
Posts: 161
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
EX/ES

Currently I have an EX/ES system, and will hopefully have pics up soon...

I have really played around with this a lot, and of course lots have to do with personal taste. I used di-poles, bi-poles and direct radiators. My preference on MOST material is to use the direct radiators... It was a really tough decision though, because I was split 60/40 when watching movies...where 40% of the time I liked the bi-pole speakers better.

What really sold me on direct radiators was with 6.1 audio, DVD-A & SACD. Direct radiators were the clear winners in this arena.

My speaker system consists of 4 identical tower speakers (NHT Super2) for L/R/LS/RS, and 3 identical bookshelf speakers (NHT Super1) for Center and 2 rear Center speakers... I posed the idea of buying a pair of NHT Bi-poles and using an A/B speaker switch between the 2 depending on the sound source, but was immediately veto-ed by the wife.

I'm also curious of how others have set their systems up...
Old 02-04-02, 11:57 AM
  #3  
DVD Talk Special Edition
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Camp Crystal Lake
Posts: 1,982
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I've been using bipolar speakers in my set-up for a while now, and if (when) I go the 6.1 route I'll buy another pair of Def Tech BPXs to match the pair I currently use for surrounds.
I have never been a fan of surround music of any kind, so that's not a factor I would consider in my plans. My problem lies in the fact that I have large windows directly behind my primary listening position, which would make placement directly behind me quite difficult. I'd be quite interested in seeing your pictures when you get them posted, jinhopark.
Old 02-05-02, 07:47 PM
  #4  
DVD Talk Special Edition
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Camp Crystal Lake
Posts: 1,982
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Wow, I would have thought there would have been more 6.1 system owners on this forum.
Old 02-06-02, 07:44 AM
  #5  
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Naperville, IL
Posts: 161
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
We're alone...

Wow, I would have thought there would have been more 6.1 system owners on this forum.
I guess we're alone on this one... Tell me more about your setup.

Here is a list of my stuff... The room has changed a bit and the pictures are dated, but it gives you an idea of what I have.

http://www.geocities.com/jinhopark/photopagespiral.html

Interested in what your setup is all about.
Old 02-06-02, 10:38 AM
  #6  
DVD Talk Special Edition
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Camp Crystal Lake
Posts: 1,982
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Re: We're alone...

Originally posted by jinhopark


I guess we're alone on this one... Tell me more about your setup.

Here is a list of my stuff... The room has changed a bit and the pictures are dated, but it gives you an idea of what I have.

http://www.geocities.com/jinhopark/photopagespiral.html

Interested in what your setup is all about.
I don't have a list of my stuff posted anywhere, so I'll just give the highlights here:

Speakers:
Definitive Technology BP2002TL (mains)
Def Tech CLR-2500 (center)
Def Tech BPX (surrounds)
Acoustic Research ARS500 (sub) (X2)

Receiver:
Pioneer VSX-D608

DVD Player:
Pioneer 434
Pioneer DVL-919 DVD/LD combo

Poer Conditioner:
Monster Power HTS2500 (X2)

and a bunch of other stuff...but that's the main components.

As for the receiver...can you say "weakest link"?

When I bought the Def Techs, I had at that time the Sunfire Theater Grand II, Cinema Grand Signature combo and...wow. I was blown away by it. But, the Sunfire gear was on an extended loan, and was eventually returned, and much to my chagrin the old Pioneer was dragged out and put in place. Talk about deflating the quality of my system...the VSXD608 isn't a bad little receiver, but compared to the Sunfire seperates...
So now I'm in the market for a new processor/amp and that's why I am looking to go ahead and go the 6.1 route. I'm leaning heavily toward the new Outlaw stuff, but it seems to be delayed, and a long waiting list to boot.

Gotta run now, but in the words of Arnie...I'll be back.
Old 02-06-02, 11:04 AM
  #7  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 251
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I have a Denon AVR-3802 and am currently only running it as a 5.1 system My problem is that my room opens up into another room and has no rear wall. I would have to go the in/on-ceiling route. That's no big deal in and of itself, the real problem comes with running speaker wire since I have a room above too. That's the only thing that has kept me from putting in 2 rear center channels! Someday though - right now I'm about to buy a 16:9 TV so the rear speakers get moved to the back burner.
Old 02-06-02, 11:45 AM
  #8  
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Naperville, IL
Posts: 161
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Omnimount

Tony,

I would never buy in wall speakers, I know they look nice and clean but typically sound horrible! If I were you I would just buy some OmniMount brackets and just mount them from the ceiling, they have "L" type brackets that come down from the ceiling and attach to the speaker.

The rear channel (if properly set up) added an extra ommph to my system and I am extremely pleased with the outcome. Some DVD's of course work much better than other (I love using The Haunting to show off my system).
Old 02-06-02, 03:19 PM
  #9  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: ...Madison
Posts: 290
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
We're alone...

Originally posted by jinhopark
I guess we're alone on this one...
The Truth is Out There!

You're not quite alone.

Actually, I'm not sure if I'm currently set up as 6.1 with two rears, or true 7.1. I haven't seen a lot of EX/ES out there, but it sure sounds nice when I do find one.

Brief list: Elite 36 receiver, ADQuart mains and center, ADC sides, Elite rears, ProScan DVD player, TiVo, Pioneer CD player, etc. At the moment, I can't remember the rear amp (have I told you about my condition?).

Built for the future.
Old 02-06-02, 04:03 PM
  #10  
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Naperville, IL
Posts: 161
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Even less than you think!

Actually, I'm not sure if I'm currently set up as 6.1 with two rears, or true 7.1. I haven't seen a lot of EX/ES out there, but it sure sounds nice when I do find one.
I don't think there really is a 7.1 system, from what I know it's just a mono-signal sent to both speakers. 7.1 is more for marketing hype than 7 discrete channels. You'd really have to look at SDDS systems to really get more than 6 discrete channels, and I don't think they sell a consumer level decoder (www.sdds.com).

Technically I don't even have a true 6.1 system... Not very many people do. I play a matrixed rear center channel with a rear sub. There aren't very many DTS 6.1-ES DISCRETE DVD's out there to play that I am aware of.

It's kind of at it's infancy stage, but I sure hope it becomes mainstream.
Old 02-07-02, 08:46 AM
  #11  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: ...Madison
Posts: 290
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Re: Even less than you think!

Originally posted by jinhopark
I don't think there really is a 7.1 system, from what I know it's just a mono-signal sent to both speakers. ... It's kind of at it's infancy stage, but I sure hope it becomes mainstream.
I'm not looking at the back of the Elite 36 at the moment, but I'm certain that it WILL send stereo signals to the rear spears, a true 7.1. One has to use a stereo amp, rather than a mono. Can you think of any reason why it won't become mainstream (other than turf wars)?I also believe that if a receiver will decode ES, it will also decode EX.
Old 02-07-02, 08:58 AM
  #12  
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Naperville, IL
Posts: 161
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I'm not looking at the back of the Elite 36 at the moment, but I'm certain that it WILL send stereo signals to the rear spears, a true 7.1. One has to use a stereo amp, rather than a mono. Can you think of any reason why it won't become mainstream (other than turf wars)?I also believe that if a receiver will decode ES, it will also decode EX.
Not to ruffle any feathers, but there definitely is NO recognized standard of a 7.1 setup... There barely is one for a true 6.1 setup, which the only one that comes to mind is DTS-ES DISCRETE.

Decoding ES does NOT mean it will decode EX. 2 different decoding processes.

Just because there are 2 connections on the back for 2 speakers does not mean it is in stereo. I believe it is a mono signal sent to both speakers...

The main reason why it won't become mainstream... Hmmm... 99.9% of current DVD's are not EX/ES encoded, and it may involve buying yet ANOTHER decoder. I'm sure there are many others though.
Old 02-07-02, 09:29 AM
  #13  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: ...Madison
Posts: 290
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by jinhopark
Not to ruffle any feathers, but there definitely is NO recognized standard of a 7.1 setup... There barely is one for a true 6.1 setup, which the only one that comes to mind is DTS-ES DISCRETE.
Who should develop equipment for the standard? Obviously, the R&D of manufacturers. Who should set the standard? The customer! Not enough customers "voted" on the beta/VHS question, so the wrong one won.
Decoding ES does NOT mean it will decode EX. 2 different decoding processes.
Technically true, but how many receivers can you name that only play one?
Just because there are 2 connections on the back for 2 speakers does not mean it is in stereo. I believe it is a mono signal sent to both speakers...
Yoiu believe, I believe, but I'll bet one can find examples for each side.
The main reason why it won't become mainstream... Hmmm... 99.9% of current DVD's are not EX/ES encoded, and it may involve buying yet ANOTHER decoder. I'm sure there are many others though.
For me, having an ES/EX decoder was a plus, but I don't think the price would have been different. Sure, I had to get rear speakers and another amp, but they won't be wasted if no further ES/EX discs come along. Sounds to me like you are already giving up on the concept. I guess we'll agree to disagree.
Old 02-07-02, 10:25 AM
  #14  
DVD Talk Special Edition
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Camp Crystal Lake
Posts: 1,982
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
There is no 7.1 standard, because there is no such format. There is not a single disc that carries a 7.1 soundtrack, as all the so-called 7.1 processors/receivers on the market are using some sort of DSP technology to steer signals toward other speakers and aren't using discrete channels contained on the disc.

As jinhopark said, the vast majority of ES discs on the market are matrixed, as are all of the EX discs. There are a few exceptions, with The Haunting dts and Gladiator being a couple that contain an actual 6.1 discrete soundtrack.
Old 02-07-02, 10:27 AM
  #15  
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Naperville, IL
Posts: 161
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Technically true, but how many receivers can you name that only play one?
I can name a few off the top of my head, but I admit the list is dwindling... When the idea of 6.1 first came out, THX-EX is all you saw. Much like when 5.1 first came out, and Dolby Digital/AC-3 is all you saw. You had to really look to find DTS decoders, but now it is nearly mainstream to have both. Dolby is a brand name and is much to be reckoned with, and for DTS to try and muscle their way in there (albeit an arguably better decoding system) and duke it out with the big boys is a big challenge.


Yoiu believe, I believe, but I'll bet one can find examples for each side.
If there is a TRUE 7.1 system out there and they are the only ones utilizing it and no Software (ie DVD's) are written for it, then what difference does it make? I would think the intent would be to recreate what the director intended for you to hear, which I think is the whole premise of THX certification.

We can ask the experts on this one... Please consult Oscar Neundorfer of Smart Devices http://www.smartdev.com/smartht.html
I think this discussion sums up what is going on out there quite sucinctly.
http://forums14.consumerreview.com/c...19.1lqdaeochzt^[email protected]/0


Sounds to me like you are already giving up on the concept.
Quite the contrary, I hope that this format grows and grows as I truly think this is an enhancement to what we are currently using... The question is, will mainstream consumers think along the same lines as myself? Not sure, but I certainly hope so! To most adding an amp and speakers would be a big deal, so to me it wasn't a huge issue.
Old 02-07-02, 10:41 AM
  #16  
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Naperville, IL
Posts: 161
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Above link doesn't work...

The link doesn't work, but here is what it said:

Posted by: Woochifer Jan-18-02, 11:46 AM


You're NOT the only one confused by all this, and I think anytime you got confusion in the market with formats, those formats suffer.
6.1 is kind of a misnomer because only DTS-ES DISCRETE is a true 6.1 format with seven discrete channels. DTS-ES Matrix and DD-EX are both 5.1 formats with six discrete channels and a matrixed rear center channel, sort of like how Dolby Surround is a 2.0 format with a matrixed mono surround channel.

7.1 is even more of a half-truth. I think most contexts where this terminology gets used is with THX Ultra receivers, which have an option for two rear center channel outputs. You still have only a 5.1 or 6.1 (with DTS-ES Discrete) original, the receiver processor splits the rear center channel into two outputs. I've also seen the 7.1 terminology thrown at receivers that have separate side and rear surrounds. That's not exactly true either since the four side and rear surrounds are not getting their signals from four discrete channels, but rather two discrete channels and some processing by the receiver.

If you're confused by all this, you're not alone. Considering the limited number of ES and EX encoded discs in the market, I don't regard the capability as essential. But, more and more receivers now include it, so if the models you're considering have it, then by all means experiment with it and see if you like it.

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.