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Bose 321 System....Who do they think they are kidding.

Old 11-01-01, 10:41 AM
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Bose 321 System....Who do they think they are kidding.

This makes me want to go out and listen to one of these systems to see how much Bose has lost it. Basically they are replacing 5 speakers with 2 and claim that they can produce 5 channel sound.

WTF?





Five speakers are replaced by two. A stack of electronics is replaced by a single media center that includes an integrated DVD/CD player, AM/FM tuner, amplification and signal processing. A patented Acoustimass® module hides easily in a corner or behind your furniture. And everything is easily connected with just three wires and a power cord, making setup a snap



LINK


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Old 11-01-01, 10:52 AM
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Bose is easily "kidding" alot of people!

Superior marketing!
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Old 11-01-01, 11:06 AM
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Originally posted by Brian Shannon
Bose is easily "kidding" alot of people!

Superior marketing!
It really is pretty good marketing. I'm sure there's a lot of people who'll buy into it though.

The add reads like they may have hired B. Gates as a marketing consultant.
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Old 11-01-01, 12:13 PM
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When you go I to audition I believe that they blindfold and spin you around to simulate all 5 channels.
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Old 11-01-01, 12:26 PM
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Originally posted by svadas
When you go I to audition I believe that they blindfold and spin you around to simulate all 5 channels.
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Old 11-01-01, 06:46 PM
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This system would probably not be half bad for a small room/bed room where you wanted DVD capabilities, but not a whole 5.1 setup.

The problem is Bose is now making it seem like people no longer need a 5.1 setup because their 2 speakers do it all. Not to mention their price which is 999.99

The sad thing is people are actually buying this set-up because the order page says there is a 3 week backorder due to overwhelming demand. Bose markets their product like no other.

J
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Old 11-01-01, 08:12 PM
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We actually worked on this technology at Harman. It does work very well with a catch. It all done with time delay to recreate how sound would travel to your ear. My new company did a product like this two years ago but it flopped.

Here is the catch It only works for a very small sweet spot. So it only works for one person. The big market is for PC gaming and for this it is very cool.

Its called virtual 5.1
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Old 11-02-01, 01:36 AM
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Anyone else think Bose may be secretly a subsidiary of Scientology?

Don't see it?

Watch the infomercials for Dianetics, and then for Bose. I think there's something to this.

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Old 11-02-01, 01:47 AM
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Originally posted by svadas
When you go I to audition I believe that they blindfold and spin you around to simulate all 5 channels.


I haven't laughted this hard since pancake rabbit

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Old 11-05-01, 11:40 AM
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Well, I listened to it this weekend and its just as I said in the above post. Very small sweet spot.

The catch is at Best Buy they have it hooked up and plaing a dvd with a little screen. Because its in the aisle you only stand in the sweet spot.

They know what they are doing.
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Old 11-06-01, 12:05 PM
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Wow...go figure, another thread to bash Bose. That never turns up here!

The 3-2-1 works well. You forget, it is not a solution to replace or compete with a 5 speaker system. That was not it's intention. It is a DVD system for people that do not want or cannot have rear speakers. And trust me, there are a lot!! No one here would ever use this probably because we all have 5 speakers systems. I own the system. It's in my bedroom...where I want a surround sound system but don't want all the speakers.

Now, to go on, do you actually think DD and DTS would allow Bose to put their name on a system that didn't work at least somewhat? No, esp. DTS. What happens is the system's speakers have two speakers in each. The rear channels shoot out of the side speakers while the left/right fronts shoot out the inside speakers. Together, they produce a center channel. It does, in fact produce 5.1 channel. However, it will not compete with a larger system nor was it created to. We never recommend the 3-2-1 over a complete system. This in mind, it is our top selling system over the past month. My store alone has sold over 50. And Sears just ordered another 17000 for the holiday season because they sold out. I honestly think that it will remain a top system and a lot of other companies will come out with other products similar to it. What most here don't understand is that Bose, with this system, cattered to a different customer and has done well with that. That customer tends to be the older generation who do not want lots of speakers, wires hanging everywhere, and complicated controls. I wouldn't expect many here to understand this as none of you are in this category.

BFRANK: Best Buy wasn't even close to having it set up right. The system sounds best with solid walls on both sides, in like a 15x15 room, not ailes.

I hope this helps clear the air a little. You guys have to be a little more open minded about things. Just because it says Bose does not mean it's not good. BFRANK himself proved that when he bought an Acoustimass 15, he was somewhat surprised at the sound that it produced, and this was from someone that for a long time didn't like Bose, although he was always open to go listen unlike most people here.

-Jeff
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Old 11-06-01, 01:48 PM
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it seems somewhat similar to the 901s with the reflecting and stuff. did anyone else think these things sounded like crap? it seems like some people swear by it but IMHO i thought they sounded horrible. off course you can simulate five channels with two speakers because your hearing is just two channels, literaly, but it works better with headphones. i am curious as to what they sound like. but i am more curious as to what the profit is on a system like this.
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Old 11-06-01, 02:32 PM
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Originally posted by Bose Pro
You forget, it is not a solution to replace or compete with a 5 speaker system. That was not it's intention.
Well, you may think so, but the sell sheet seems to be implying the opposite when it says: "Five speakers are replaced by two. A stack of electronics is replaced by a single media center that includes an integrated DVD/CD player, AM/FM tuner, amplification and signal processing" and "Designed to provide performance and simplicity unmatched by conventional component or all-in-one solutions" -- it seems to me that Bose is very much trying to compete with and replace 5.1-speaker systems.

Now, to go on, do you actually think DD and DTS would allow Bose to put their name on a system that didn't work at least somewhat? No, esp. DTS.
I don't see anywhere that DTS is endorsing this system. A DTS logo is not a DTS endorsement. It is not a seal approval, just an indication that a product can decode the bitstream. Anything can bear that logo. I'm also not sure that we're arguing that this works at least somewhat; but "at least somewhat" doesn't exactly make us do somersaults.

What most here don't understand is that Bose, with this system, cattered to a different customer and has done well with that. That customer tends to be the older generation who do not want lots of speakers, wires hanging everywhere, and complicated controls. I wouldn't expect many here to understand this as none of you are in this category.
Actually, I think you're underestimating us. We do understand, and in fact that's what we were getting at with this whole thread. Who is Bose kidding? The elderly and the uninformed, I guess. Ha-ha on them. Anyone who thinks that this system is a replacement for a standard 5.1 system is deceiving themselves. We get it, we just wonder who doesn't get it.

This isn't a request for you to butt out. I'm sure we all appreciate an opposing voice. When different opinions are given, it benefits everyone to hear both sides. This would be a boring and useless place if we all had the same opinions and insight. Thanls for offering us some insight. I am sure that there will be copycat systems of this same idea, and they will be quite popular. I guess we were all just laughing at those people who will get suckered in.

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Old 11-06-01, 02:49 PM
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Originally posted by tanman
it seems somewhat similar to the 901s with the reflecting and stuff... off course you can simulate five channels with two speakers because your hearing is just two channels, literaly, but it works better with headphones. i am curious as to what they sound like. but i am more curious as to what the profit is on a system like this.
Agreed, and these pseudo-surround schemes have been around for a while. The reason the headphones are better is that the designers know the exact specifications and dimensions of the product, whereas speakers systems will be placed in a room of unknown dimensions and properties. Therefore, they must cater to the lowest common denominator and bear the consequences (e.g., a small sweet spot, if any).

The difference with this Bose system, it appears, is that they simply moved the rear speaker drivers into the main speaker enclosures -- so there's two driverws in each enclosure (one main and one surround). Then they bounce it off the ceiling or wall. I'll have to check this out and see how well it works. If people knew this, they'd spend half as much on the Sony HTIB and just put the speakers on top of the mains, facing upward or sideways.
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Old 11-06-01, 04:46 PM
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If this setup was $299 I could see it for small apartments and people on a budget. But for $1000 there are so many more superior options that actually give you all 5 speakers. I sold BOSE when I sold electronics several years ago and they do have their loyal clients, but getting more for less usually doesn't occur to these people. They just like the name BOSE, and the reflecting sound makes great first impressions in the right room.
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Old 11-06-01, 07:31 PM
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Looks like Bose is getting ready to start marketing video products. Looks like they are just test marketing some of their newest technology that will revolutionize way we watch tv much like they did for speakers. Here's a link to what I believe will be their first model, albeit with their logo of course, this must be a secret prototype: www.100inchtv.com
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Old 11-07-01, 03:48 AM
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Originally posted by Bose Pro

Now, to go on, do you actually think DD and DTS would allow Bose to put their name on a system that didn't work at least somewhat?
They really don't care as long as they get their licensing fees.

I listened to this system at a local dealer and it sounded piss poor. It does has an VERY small sweet spot where it sounds a little less sucky and YES it was setup correctly. I agree that if it was a couple of hundred bucks it wouldn't be such a joke.

Even the dealer thought it was a joke. But the power of marketing is very strong and he said they had sold quite a few of them.

It makes me want to stand outside the door with an Alpha A/V setup and preach to the people:

"Open your ears! Hear the sins of the evil marketing department!"
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Old 11-07-01, 08:32 PM
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bosepro-

First you know I am not just an uneducated Bose basher but I do have some views on this.

I know this style system very well. The main effect is not in fact due to reflection it is due to the delay circuit. As I explained, we had one of these on the market 3 years ago. Reflections will add none directional ambience and to some extent add peaks and valleys in the response. These effects will also diminish the effectiveness or the virtual circuit to some extent.

Bottom line the effect works for one listener in a very small sweet spot.

As for sales, we are talking about Bose. Remember that the store is making in some cases 100% more on the sale of this system over another company's HTIB system - that has more to do with sales then the products merits. As is the case all Bose product.
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Old 11-07-01, 10:40 PM
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bose

Reading this thread is intersting - especially to a new poster. Foolishly i made a post asking when the triology was coming out, *knowing* that someone else in this forum knew the answer, NOT suggesting that i was the first person to think "Oh my god wouldn't it be great if Star Wars was on DVD". I just thought it would be relativeley easy for one person to tell me the answer, or at least give me a link to the answer (thank you for those who helped) but i didnt expect a bunch of people to flame me until the moderators locked the thread.

This site seems to be on the cutting edge, it has a bunch of dedicated audio/DVDphiles that really know what they are talking about, and a bunch of people like me who have jumped into the water and frantically trying to learn to swim!

The people on this site may be numerous, but make up only a small percentage of consumer electronic buyers. Is Bose fooling people? I dont think so, they have a target audience who will defintiely do out and pruchase this system in drones.

But remeber Ferrari doesnt have to sell as many cars as Ford to make some $. I own a Corvette, which is about as realiable as a tin-can on wheels when compared to my Honda civic, but the Corvette appeals to a certain audinece, and is not for everyone, just like Bose is not for everyone - and Bose doesnt want it to be for everyone either. Or else it would cost $299, not $1000.

It would seem almost ridiculous for people to suggest that it sounded like crap when they heard it in BestBuy - where there are hundreds of people talking/walking around and a bunch of competing steroes all over the store blaring. What would you guys say if i listened to a Onkyo at Circuity City and it sounded like crap? Most likely the speakers, or one of the numerous other variables in the store would be blamed, but not the reciever itself.

Is it better then a real 5.1 system? Does it really matter? Do they intend to convince all of the DVD/audiophiles on this board and those that are like minded to purchase it? NO. And more to the point, does everybody have the ABILITY to do all the research and try to ask all the right questions [which is turning out to be very difficult!! ] when prushaincg a 5.1 system? I cant imagine some older people i know setting up a DVD/VCR/TV/receiver/6 speaker combo when they cant even program the VCR clock.

How many people here change there own tires, oil, etc on their car? How many peolpe foolishly buy new valve stems each time they get new tires?

On the corvette board people laugh hardly at others who pay to flush their cooling system, and idiots who think that Slick 50 and oil aditives will make their car run better!

I say to each his own. Try to keep things in perspective. Is this board an ivory tower?
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Old 11-07-01, 11:20 PM
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Re: bose

Originally posted by jasonr114
Reading this thread is intersting - especially to a new poster. Foolishly i made a post asking when the triology was coming out, *knowing* that someone else in this forum knew the answer, NOT suggesting that i was the first person to think "Oh my god wouldn't it be great if Star Wars was on DVD". I just thought it would be relativeley easy for one person to tell me the answer, or at least give me a link to the answer (thank you for those who helped) but i didnt expect a bunch of people to flame me until the moderators locked the thread.

This site seems to be on the cutting edge, it has a bunch of dedicated audio/DVDphiles that really know what they are talking about, and a bunch of people like me who have jumped into the water and frantically trying to learn to swim!

The people on this site may be numerous, but make up only a small percentage of consumer electronic buyers. Is Bose fooling people? I dont think so, they have a target audience who will defintiely do out and pruchase this system in drones.

But remeber Ferrari doesnt have to sell as many cars as Ford to make some $. I own a Corvette, which is about as realiable as a tin-can on wheels when compared to my Honda civic, but the Corvette appeals to a certain audinece, and is not for everyone, just like Bose is not for everyone - and Bose doesnt want it to be for everyone either. Or else it would cost $299, not $1000.

It would seem almost ridiculous for people to suggest that it sounded like crap when they heard it in BestBuy - where there are hundreds of people talking/walking around and a bunch of competing steroes all over the store blaring. What would you guys say if i listened to a Onkyo at Circuity City and it sounded like crap? Most likely the speakers, or one of the numerous other variables in the store would be blamed, but not the reciever itself.

Is it better then a real 5.1 system? Does it really matter? Do they intend to convince all of the DVD/audiophiles on this board and those that are like minded to purchase it? NO. And more to the point, does everybody have the ABILITY to do all the research and try to ask all the right questions [which is turning out to be very difficult!! ] when prushaincg a 5.1 system? I cant imagine some older people i know setting up a DVD/VCR/TV/receiver/6 speaker combo when they cant even program the VCR clock.

How many people here change there own tires, oil, etc on their car? How many peolpe foolishly buy new valve stems each time they get new tires?

On the corvette board people laugh hardly at others who pay to flush their cooling system, and idiots who think that Slick 50 and oil aditives will make their car run better!

I say to each his own. Try to keep things in perspective. Is this board an ivory tower?
Amen!

It's so funny to see how people love to bash Bose. They call everyone who purchases Bose products drones, yet the bashers seem to be the drones! They all follow the bash Bose cult! OMG another Bose thread, I MUST show my anti-Bose loyalty & post. Bottom line... Nobody will love everything! We all have choices and that's great! I enjoy the different opinions about Bose... Pro & Con! I'm surprised someone has yet to bring up/bash the Bose Waveguide! That usually occurs within 5 posts.

Microsoft, Coke, Bose... which one should I wake up and bash today?

I personally own BOTH Bose products as well as other brands of equipment & I must say that each of the products (Bose included) serve me well!

Carry on........
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Old 11-08-01, 08:05 AM
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If you seek perspective with a Bose product then go to a store and COMPARE Bose with something else in the same room with the same music or video.

In my experience this is very difficult to do. Bose does not want valid A/B comparisons of their product.

If you like them great, however some of us have gone to the trouble to make these comparisons. When done properly there is no doubt that Bose products are inferior.
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Old 11-08-01, 08:49 AM
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I had many years experience selling BOSE products and I don't bash them to be on some bandwagon or try to fit in. I bash them because compared to the other products we sold, they were over-rated and over-priced. The reflecting sound usually made a fantastic first impression but failed to provide the long term quality and imaging that the people spending the money were seeking in a system, therefore many were returned and exchanged after a short time in the customers home.

I am also a firm believer in "it's your money whatever sounds good to you" Like arguing the merits of Lincoln vs. Cadillac. Regardless of statistical information and hard facts some prefer one over the other. Nobody is right or wrong just different. But for $1000, many other alternatives exist that provide true 5.1 sound, not just the impression of 5.1 sound.
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Old 11-08-01, 10:29 AM
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WOW! OMG!!! This is crazy. I never thought I would see the day that people would post keeping an open mind on a Bose product, neither endorsing or bashing Bose. But here we have a few. Thank you for your respect and open mindness. I salute you.

For those that keep bringing up that you can get a better 5.1 system for less, you are still missing the point. The thousands of people that have bought the 3-2-1 know that a 5 peaker system will sound better. But they don't want a 5 speaker system. They want an easy to use, DVD package. The 3-2-1 is not better that a 5 speaker system nor do we ever offer it as one. However, it is better than a 2 speaker system. Let's add the price for someone that wants to get a two speaker system, DVD, receiver, and sub. Receiver: $150-200 (stereo only) - DVD: $200 (average) - 2 stereo speakers, $200-300 - Sub: $250. So where's that leave the price? $800 to $950...and that was being very modest on MOST product available. And you think $999 is expensine for a system that will offer more, be all in one, MUCH easier to use, not take over a person's living space, and give somehwhat of a 5.1 DD and surround affect? You're just wrong. The people that buy the 3-2-1 don't want all that other stuff. They want simplicity and good sound. Most here do not realize this because we are willing to have a rack system and large speaker because we understand how to work it and can live with it.

As jason pointed out, there are so many great people on this board, however, we make up only a very small percentage of consumers on the market.

It's so funny that jason brought up his Corvette issue. Sometimes I feel that when I see someone post a thread in here on Bose that has a true concern or question, it is much like a person with a Chevy posting a message on a Ford board. They get eaten alive.
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Old 11-08-01, 10:49 AM
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Why should I spend $250 on a sub to compare to Bose price, when Bose doesn't come with a sub anyways?
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Old 11-08-01, 11:04 AM
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A fair price comparison:

DVD player $150 (This is giving the Bose DVD player the benefit of the doubt)
Stereo Receiver $150 (And one that they release the specs for )
Pair of Bookshelf Speakers $150 (The bass module is needed just to compete with a good sized bookshelf)

Total = $450
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