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Bose 321 System....Who do they think they are kidding.

Old 11-28-01, 12:07 AM
  #51  
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I am actually surprised this is still going. Honestly, I am completely disappointed in the moderators for even allowing this to go on this far since there was no clear question or concern; it was a thread simply to bash Bose again, which the mods seem to have no problem allowing.

Anyhow, you all convey powerful points, however, not quite valid. As one person posted, you are missing the point and I think most of you still are. Sure, you can go grab a recevier, a dvd player, two speakers, and a sub. It has a chance of sounding better. But here's the point you all seem to miss. You now lose the all-in-one feature that 3-2-1 customers enjoy. You lose the simplicity. You gain a rack system. You still don't have DTS or DD surround sound. You have a good chance of gaining larger speakers. These are all reasons why people enjoy and purchase the 3-2-1. Is there better product out that might be cheaper? Absolutely. Many people on here have already given several examples. However, those systems mentioned do not have what 3-2-1 customers are looking for: all in one DVD system that is small, easy to use, and gives surround sound from two speakers. You can once again raise the argument that the surround sound sucks, and that's your opinion. However, it does not change the fact that the 3-2-1 is DTS and DD surround sound and most people find it very excellent coming from only two speakers.

So, as one mentioned, yes, most of you are still missing the point. It's not a point of something better. It's a point of something better and still maintains the characteristics people enjoy in the 3-2-1. And the simple answer is, there isn't much of anything that meets these.
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Old 11-28-01, 12:40 AM
  #52  
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Originally posted by Bose Pro
I am actually surprised this is still going. Honestly, I am completely disappointed in the moderators for even allowing this to go on this far since there was no clear question or concern; it was a thread simply to bash Bose again, which the mods seem to have no problem allowing.
You've got to be kidding.

The moderators are still allowing this to go on because it is a perfectly legitimate discussion, whether you like it or not. Who ever said there has to be a "clear question or concern," as long as the topic at hand is relevant?

I understand that you sell Bose products, but you can't expect every thread that criticizes the company's products to be shut down, especially if the discussion has merit.

As I wrote in a previous post, yes Bose makes products that sound fine. But $1,000 is a hell of a lot of money to pay for "convenience" that can be found for half the price from other manufacterers.

Is the system I listed above as simple to unbox and hook up as the 3-2-1? No. But it isn't brain surgery either. It'll probably take all of five minutes more to hook up, but let's say it takes an entire half hour. Will anyone really be inconvenienced that much considering that the system will have to be hooked up once and then not messed with again until you move? This is something you will be using day in and day out for years. That extra five minutes of convenience doesn't seem like a lot to ask.

And I hardly think that a single DVD player and a receiver qualifies as a "rack system." Throw in a PVR, CD recorder and a cassette deck and you might have a valid point, but this is two relatively small components that will require a single cable to connect them to each other.

Oh, and all of the home theater receivers I've seen have a mode that simulates surround sound when using less than the full complement of five speakers.
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Old 11-28-01, 01:05 AM
  #53  
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Originally posted by Bose Pro
I am actually surprised this is still going. Honestly, I am completely disappointed in the moderators for even allowing this to go on this far since there was no clear question or concern; it was a thread simply to bash Bose again, which the mods seem to have no problem allowing.

Anyhow, you all convey powerful points, however, not quite valid. As one person posted, you are missing the point and I think most of you still are. Sure, you can go grab a recevier, a dvd player, two speakers, and a sub. It has a chance of sounding better. But here's the point you all seem to miss. You now lose the all-in-one feature that 3-2-1 customers enjoy. You lose the simplicity. You gain a rack system. You still don't have DTS or DD surround sound. You have a good chance of gaining larger speakers. These are all reasons why people enjoy and purchase the 3-2-1. Is there better product out that might be cheaper? Absolutely. Many people on here have already given several examples. However, those systems mentioned do not have what 3-2-1 customers are looking for: all in one DVD system that is small, easy to use, and gives surround sound from two speakers. You can once again raise the argument that the surround sound sucks, and that's your opinion. However, it does not change the fact that the 3-2-1 is DTS and DD surround sound and most people find it very excellent coming from only two speakers.

So, as one mentioned, yes, most of you are still missing the point. It's not a point of something better. It's a point of something better and still maintains the characteristics people enjoy in the 3-2-1. And the simple answer is, there isn't much of anything that meets these.
Most people might find it excellent coming from only two speakers, but the only reason they do is ignorance!!! Let them listen to a similiar priced "rack system" (it's two components for sh*ts sake!) and they WILL tell you which sounds better!

Look at it from the money side of things.

1) Spend more and receive two speakers and a dvd player (everything else is pretty much invisible to the user) and receive (for the price) sh*tty sound

2) Spend less and receive 5 speakers and a dvd player and amp and have considerable better sound.

Now, if I was the 3-2-1 customer, I would be questioning WHY I'm paying more for 2 speakers!!!!!!!!
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Old 11-28-01, 01:15 AM
  #54  
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DaLeroy: Thank you. I must say that you are the first to post to prove my point that you are missing the point. After stating that the 3-2-1 is a system for customers that do not want 5 speakers around, you bring up the point of a 5 speaker system again. Completely missing the point of the 3-2-1.

Issue is that the 3-2-1 has all the characteristics I mentioned and nothing you guys are recommending do. Sure, comprimise size here, two components here, hell, and 3 more speakers! All of these small tweeks you guys are doing just unjustifies your argument of what the 3-2-1 is and does.

As for Mr. Salty, I have seen several topics closed that had no realavent information. They were there to bag on a product or just there to take up bandwidth. I have seen these topics both about Bose and other products closed. This is just another one of those topics.
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Old 11-28-01, 02:09 AM
  #55  
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Originally posted by Bose Pro
DaLeroy: Thank you. I must say that you are the first to post to prove my point that you are missing the point. After stating that the 3-2-1 is a system for customers that do not want 5 speakers around, you bring up the point of a 5 speaker system again. Completely missing the point of the 3-2-1.
But we're not missing the point, we are pointing out the alternatives.

Suppose I purchase the following:
Onkyo 494($260)
Pioneer DV-440($170)
PSB Alpha A/V one pair($170)

I've spent $600. I turn on the TruSurround pseudo-surround feature on the 440 and I have a small system that beats the pants off the 3-2-1 and I've saved $400. (I've listened to this same exact setup and it sounds much better than the Bose). You could even save $100 more by buying just an Onkyo stereo receiver.

It's not that hard to setup a small HT. My parents are total newbies and they setup their system without any problems. I sat and watched without saying a word to see how they would do at it.

It's because people just don't know any better. I saw lots of people buying HTBs at BestBuy on Black Thursday. It's the marketing that gets them, just look at the TV CM for Sony's dream system in a box(the one where the guy has the broken leg).
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Old 11-28-01, 05:12 AM
  #56  
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Originally posted by Bose Pro
As for Mr. Salty, I have seen several topics closed that had no realavent information. They were there to bag on a product or just there to take up bandwidth. I have seen these topics both about Bose and other products closed. This is just another one of those topics.
If this thread consisted of nothing but "Bose sucks" posts, you'd have an argument. But I'd say that pointing out alternatives for someone who is ready to drop a grand on a new home entertainment system is pretty relevant. In fact, it's the whole spirit of the DVD Talk hardware area.

I'd like to mention another point to Rick T:

The Sony subwoofer I mentioned is pretty large, certainly bigger than the one that comes with the Bose 3-2-1 system. If it won't fit into your decor, which is likely, either of the PSB speakers that nekobus and I mentioned provide a surprising amount of bass for their size. You could easily do without the sub and save yourself another $150. You'd still probably have bass equivalent to or better than the 3-2-1.
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Old 11-28-01, 07:41 AM
  #57  
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So now are you telling your customers that the piece of crap bose 321 has dts and dd? What other claims are you making as well?


Originally posted by Bose Pro
You still don't have DTS or DD surround sound. You have a good chance of gaining larger speakers. These are all reasons why people enjoy and purchase the 3-2-1.
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Old 11-28-01, 09:46 AM
  #58  
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svadas: Yes, the 3-2-1 is DD and DTS. If you think otherwise, you're just plain ignorant on that.

Mr. Salty. I agree that the thread should be allowed if someone was asking, should I get the 3-2-1? But the thread was "Who are they kidding" and "What a joke." That's bashing. No one was asking for a should I get this, it was a, come, let's all bag on Bose again statement.
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Old 11-28-01, 09:50 AM
  #59  
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Re: Re: Missing the Point

Originally posted by Mr. Salty

No, we haven't missed the point.
snip
You can spend that same amount of money on even better speakers than what you would get with the Bose set-up.

Here's what I listed (edited to conserve space):

1) An excellent-quailty entry-level DVD player from Sony or Panasonic, $169.
2) Onkyo TXDS-595
3) The Sony SA-WM40 subwoofer,
4) PSB Alpha Mini
snip
So what do you end up with? A system that has the ergonomics and convenience of the $1,000 Bose system for the same amount of money, but which is much better sounding.
Based on the specifications of the equipment listed (ignoring the subs because the are easy to hide):
The Bose system takes up 855 cubic inches(565+145+145)
Your system takes up 4030 cubic inches(2090+620+660+660)

Will the system you configured sound better? Yes. It will also take up ~5 times the space and likely involve buying the components from several different stores.
It seems like you are missing the point; just because convenience and ergonomics aren't important to you doesn't mean that the same holds true for the majority of the market.
I will agree that the main reason that Bose speakers sell as well as they do is marketing, not because they advertise the most but because they better understand what the average consumer wants from a home theater setup.
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Old 11-28-01, 09:55 AM
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This is what I found on the BOSE web site.

How does proprietary signal processing = DTS?



3򈭽 Home Entertainment System

Product highlights:

Media center plays DVD-video, CD, CD-R/RW and MP3 on CD.
Articulated Array speaker design and proprietary signal processing help two speakers deliver most of the performance of a five-speaker system from any source.
Acoustimass module offers clear, deep bass reproduction without audible distortion.
Simplified wiring reduces system setup to four connections.
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Old 11-28-01, 10:01 AM
  #61  
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Originally posted by Bose Pro
svadas: Yes, the 3-2-1 is DD and DTS. If you think otherwise, you're just plain ignorant on that.

Mr. Salty. I agree that the thread should be allowed if someone was asking, should I get the 3-2-1? But the thread was "Who are they kidding" and "What a joke." That's bashing. No one was asking for a should I get this, it was a, come, let's all bag on Bose again statement.
Are you trying to say that this system decodes DTS? I see nothing in the Bose material that indicates this.

"Yes. The 3򈭽 system uses proprietary signal processing and an Articulated Array speaker design to deliver a multi-channel surround experience from digital 5.1-encoded material, including DVD, Dolby Digital and DTS digital surround along with the added bass impact of the ".1" low-frequency effects channel. And with the inclusion of Bose proprietary Videostage 5 decoding circuitry, this type of performance is delivered from any source, including analog-encoded surround and even older mono TV programs."

It appears that the text "proprietary signal processing" and "Articulated Array speaker design" deliever a "multi-channel surround experience" indicates that some sore of pseudo pyscho acoustic processing is going on to simulate DTS.

Decoding and simulating are two very different things. According to the DTS website Bose is not listed.

http://www.dtsonline.com/consumer/ha...html#receivers
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Old 11-28-01, 10:09 AM
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If you guys cont looking, read the FAQ asked questions and there is a question, is it DTS. It goes to say:

"Yes. The 3򈭽 system uses proprietary signal processing and an Articulated Array speaker design to deliver a multi-channel surround experience from digital 5.1-encoded material, including DVD, Dolby Digital and DTS digital surround along with the added bass impact of the ".1" low-frequency effects channel. "

On the media center itself, it is also labeled DTS and DD and the back.

It's not posted on the DTS site because it is not a recevier! Not to mention, who knows when that was last updated. We have currently 3 systems that use DTS; 3-2-1, LS28, LS35.
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Old 11-28-01, 12:06 PM
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Originally posted by Bose Pro
Sure, you can go grab a recevier, a dvd player, two speakers, and a sub. It has a chance of sounding better.
A CHANCE?!?!

Why are you still here? Weren't you banned?
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Old 11-28-01, 12:58 PM
  #64  
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I'd like to make a few points, in no particular order:

1) If you don't use the "Report this post to a moderator" function, please don't question the moderating team's action, or lack thereof. We simply cannot read every post to every thread. Using the "Report this post" function will guarantee that your voice is heard.

2) Note that until this thread began to spiral out of control (the point at which no new relevant information was being added), this was a perfectly valid use of DVDTalk's bandwidth.

3) Clearly, Bose products tend to bring out the emotional side of people here. In and of itself, this is no problem at all. This is why we're called enthusiasts. I would simply request that people take a deep breath (and count to 10 if that helps), before hitting the "Submit Reply" button whenever you find yourself getting worked up over this stuff. I'm sure that a lot of you are already doing just that, and I appreciate it.

4) Bashing a product without providing any additional information ("If it's Bose, it must be terrible") is no better than lavishing praise without justifying your point of view ("If it's Bose, it must be great").

5) There is no reason to either take or make things overly personal here, at least not beyond the "I need a new receiver, here's what my system looks like, and here's my budget..." kind of way.


If you have any questions or comments about any of the above, feel free to e-mail me. I think I can safely say that -- at least for the time being -- the topic of the Bose 321 system has been thoroughly hashed out.

Closing this thread.

-stevevt
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