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opinions on rear surrounds / rear center

Old 10-22-01, 04:07 PM
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opinions on rear surrounds / rear center

What do you guys think about using dipoles as a rear centers? ( Boston VRS- I was thinking about either one or both for the rear center) The boston VRS isn't giving me low freqz as my rear surrounds. I was thinking about replacing them with Polk fx300i's (bipole feature) and use the boston for rear center(s).

setup

yamaha rxv3000
sony dvp7700
FR/CC/FL Infinity RS series (6 ysrs old). Eventually will replace them with Polks if i am happy with the fx300i's.
sub-infinity bu2

thanks in advance
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Old 10-22-01, 06:57 PM
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Personally I wouldn't use bipole or dipole speakers in an HT setup. These types of speakers were primarily used in the Pro-Logic days and worked well to spread the sound out and create a wider sound stage for the rear speakers. DD5.1 and DTS is more geared to direct the sound at the listener. The prgraming is much more specific now rather than just used for ambience. Also you have the inherent timing problems because of sound reflection with bipole and dipole speakers. In both cases you have speakers facing opposite each other so the sound from the speaker facing the listener get there faster than the sound from the opposite facing speaker reflecting off the wall. Also you need more room because you would not want to hang a bipole/dipole speaker on the wall or on a bookshelf.

I think you are better off using mono-pole speakers but I suggest buying from a store you can return the stuff too and trying everything until you find what sounds good to you.
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Old 10-22-01, 07:44 PM
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palebluedot,

Thanks for the insight. I used these dipoles for my pro-logic sony. Seems like I will be shopping for direct reflecting speakers now. Any suggestions? I would have to hang my RR/RL on the walls as i would with the Rear center. I seems that no speaker manufacturer is making a dedicated rear center (other than boston _vrmex? which runs about $400. I would think one could use any direct reflecting speaker for the rear center..? one more thing, The wifey would only go for white RL/RC/RR speakers because of the decor.....

thanks again.
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Old 10-22-01, 07:54 PM
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I use dipoles(or is it bipoles, I get those confused) in my setup and it sounds just fine to me. Of, course I have not had anything in their place so perhaps direct speakers would be even better. If you can, listen to both and see which you like better. That's all that matters in the end I think.
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Old 10-22-01, 08:31 PM
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That's a tough one when you introduce the wife coefficient into the equation.

Have you thought of in-wall speakers? You can get white panels or the panels are easyly painted to match the wall color. There are some good ones out there, Cambridge Soundworks comes to mind, especially if price is a consideration.

http://www.cambridgesoundworks.com/i...ambiance82.htm

Also Energy is a good speaker for the money, they also have a in-wall speaker.

http://www.energy-speakers.com/custo...ts/eas-65.html

You can just by 3 of the same speaker.

Otherwise I would just go with the satelite choices from Energy(specifically the Take 2.2), Cambridge Soundworks and you might want to check Paradigm.

This is taking price into consideration and the fact that you can get them in white. Of course if money is no object there are more speakers out there.

You can always do some creative mounting of the speakers to make then less conspicuous also.
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Old 10-23-01, 12:39 AM
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larryw
I did notice that my surrounds weren't as active as it should be or how i like it to be. I am still experimenting.

palebluedot

thanks for all your input.. I did auditioned the veritas 2.2, they were amazing. I compared them with Polk rt2000/1000/ bostons. The Energy was the best. I also like the Polk cs400i center, it had a fuller/warmer sound than the Energy / Bostons centers. Anyways. I will give the Energy exlr15's a listen this week.

Maybe I'll end up using my boston VRS for front effects... then I'll have 7.1...

thanks again guys.
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Old 10-24-01, 07:09 PM
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Originally posted by palebluedot
...Also you need more room because you would not want to hang a bipole/dipole speaker on the wall or on a bookshelf....
Just curious what your experiences with bipolar speakers are, and what caused you to think bipolar speakers should not be hung on the wall (used as surrounds). Thanks for the info.
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Old 10-24-01, 07:26 PM
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Originally posted by DVD_O_Rama


Just curious what your experiences with bipolar speakers are, and what caused you to think bipolar speakers should not be hung on the wall (used as surrounds). Thanks for the info.
Well this was a about a year ago and I was helping a friend set up his HT. We tried all different combinations of speaker positions until we found what he liked best.

Our first try was mounting them hanging from the celing behind and pointed down at the listening position. This sounded terrible. The sound was way to dispearsed and a lot of the detail was lost.

Our second try was mounting them on the wall behind the listening position just above ear level. The sound was improved but we had a lot of reflection and timing problems with the reflected signal(and this was in a dedicated room with noise dampening).

Our third try was having them on stands behind the listening position just above ear level and this was the most satisfying sound.

In the end though he returned the bi-poles and picked up some mono-pole speakers and put them on the stands and this proved to be the best sounding out of all the attempts.

This was obviously our experience with bi-poles however, as I'm sure you know, how things sound, is completely objective to the listener. I guess I shouldn't say you should not use bi-poles but rather try every conceivable configuration before commiting. I do however think you are losing a bit by dispersing the sound using bi-pole/dipole speakers because DD5.1/DTS is geared towards pin-pointing sound, not like in the days of Pro-Logic where the surrounds more used for ambient noise.
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Old 10-25-01, 12:33 AM
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Originally posted by palebluedot
Personally I wouldn't use bipole or dipole speakers in an HT setup. These types of speakers were primarily used in the Pro-Logic days and worked well to spread the sound out and create a wider sound stage for the rear speakers
I disagree. I'm not sure why this myth continues to propagate. Were this true, no high end speaker manufactures would still be producing these products as surrounds since the market for pro-logic is essentially dead.

The room, speaker placement, and personal preference all play a role in the decision between bi/di-pole and mono-pole as rears. Mono-poles localize sounds better, while bi/di-poles offer a more diffuse soundstage. I have both di-poles and mono-poles rears in my system and switch between them as the mood and source material dictate.

Although certainly a minority position, some people even use bi-poles as mains. And donít forget that all planer speakers are bi-poles.

larryw, in bi-poles the opposing speakers are wired in phase, di-poles are wired out of phase.
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Old 10-25-01, 06:49 AM
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Originally posted by palebluedot
Personally I wouldn't use bipole or dipole speakers in an HT setup. These types of speakers were primarily used in the Pro-Logic days and worked well to spread the sound out and create a wider sound stage for the rear speakers. DD5.1 and DTS is more geared to direct the sound at the listener. The prgraming is much more specific now rather than just used for ambience. Also you have the inherent timing problems because of sound reflection with bipole and dipole speakers. In both cases you have speakers facing opposite each other so the sound from the speaker facing the listener get there faster than the sound from the opposite facing speaker reflecting off the wall. Also you need more room because you would not want to hang a bipole/dipole speaker on the wall or on a bookshelf.

I think you are better off using mono-pole speakers but I suggest buying from a store you can return the stuff too and trying everything until you find what sounds good to you.
Actually, you're supposed to use dipolar speakers in DD5.1, DTS, DTS EX, THX Ultra, etc setups. Certainly, you might personally like monopolar speaks better, but most specifications use dipolar rear speakers. Proper placement of the speakers is speced to be mounted on the side walls with the null points of the speakers pointed towards the listening posistion. The idea is that the speakers will reflect their sound along the walls that they're mounted on providing wide/diffuse rear channels that are still distinctly left and right. This provides a lot more than ambiance. In DD5.1, the soundtrack isn't really meant to come from localized point sources. That's for SACD & DVD audio.

The attempt is supposed to be to emulate a theater where there's an array of speakers the full depth of the theater along the side walls.

At the end of the day, it's obviously what you prefer.
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Old 10-25-01, 09:07 AM
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Originally posted by Janitor


Actually, you're supposed to use dipolar speakers in DD5.1, DTS, DTS EX, THX Ultra, etc setups. Certainly, you might personally like monopolar speaks better, but most specifications use dipolar rear speakers. Proper placement of the speakers is speced to be mounted on the side walls with the null points of the speakers pointed towards the listening posistion. The idea is that the speakers will reflect their sound along the walls that they're mounted on providing wide/diffuse rear channels that are still distinctly left and right. This provides a lot more than ambiance. In DD5.1, the soundtrack isn't really meant to come from localized point sources. That's for SACD & DVD audio.

The attempt is supposed to be to emulate a theater where there's an array of speakers the full depth of the theater along the side walls.

At the end of the day, it's obviously what you prefer.
The people at Dolby don't make any reccomendation as to what type of speaker to use other than that full range speakers should be used. They give the points for each type of speaker that can be used. They leave the decision of speaker choice to the listener and what sounds good to them, which is exactly what I advocate. I never said you counldn't use them, just that in my experience they didn't sound good.

As far as DTS, I can't remember where I read it(in a magazine I think), where DTS recommends full range direct-reflecting speakers all the way around.
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