Toad

It's been beaten to death, but I don't think I've been able to find a clear answer.

Do the black bars that I'm used to on widescreen DVDs on my standard 4X3 go away?

stevevt

Just to be clear, are you asking if the black bars that you see on a 4/3 TV go away when you get a 16/9 TV?

The answer will differ based on the following:
- Is the dvd enhanced for 16/9 televisions?
- If not, do you have a dvd player that zooms and scales non-anamorphic dvds?
- What is the aspect ratio of the dvd you're watching? Anything wider than 16/9 will yield black bars, but they will be much smaller than those on your 4/3 TV.

evenswr

Well, if the disc is enhanced for 16x9 TVs, and the aspect ratio of the movie is 1.7777777777777777777777777777778 to 1, the black bars should virtually disappear. If the disc is enhanced for 16x9 TVs, and the aspect ratio is 2 or more to 1, then you're still going to have black bars, but they're going to be smaller. If the aspect ratio is less than 1.7777777777777777777777777777778 to 1, you're going to have bars on the sides, unless you "zoom." If you don't know what aspect ratio is, you might try exploring this thread.

You know, the thread you're not interested in.

skar

I don't own a 16x9 TV so I'm not sure, but doesn't an anamorphic 1.85:1 DVD fill a 16x9 TV because of overscan? Yes, 2.35:1 DVD will still be letterboxed.

I think his question might have been about 16x9 enhanced 4:3 TV's. I would assume that they would still be letterboxed. Anyone with a Wega want to field this one?

Toad

Yes, that's exactly what I meant to ask, and I can't believe I forgot to. Thanks for the posts and trying to help even though I left out the most pertinent information.

I should have asked:
Do the black bars disappear on a 16X9 enhanced TV such as a WEGA? It's not a big deal to me, I'm just a little curious. But if not -- what's the big deal about having the added enhancement?

reverb

Yes.

Mr. Salty

Just to be sure we're on the same wavelength, if you're asking about a non-widescreen (4:3) TV that has a 16:9 mode, no the black bars do not "go away."

A 1.85:1 or 2.35:1 picture still will not fit in a 4:3 hole. Unless, of course, you set your DVD player to output 16:9 to a 4:3 set that does not have a 16:9 mode. Then you're stretching the picture out of shape to fill the screen. The side effect is that it's like watching a movie reflected in a funhouse mirror.

mamorgan1

A VVega is still 4:3, so the bars are still there even when it is in 16:9 enhanced mode. 4:3 and 16:9 are different shapes, so they have to be there. 16:9 enhanced mode does squeeze the lines of resolution so that you receive a better picture. It is awesome, well worth the extra cash if you can't afford a 16:9 tv.

Toad

Thanks!

So basically, the 16X9 mode just gives you a great picture!!
Like the sound of that!

Toad

I believe we're on the "same wavelength". I was asking about a TV like a VVega with 16X9 enhancement.

evenswr

No, the black bars don't disappear. the movie's still rectngular, and the TV's still square. what happens is that the scan lines-- those little pixels on your screen-- phystically move closer together in the center of the screen, into a 16x9 shape. This should increase resolution, because you've got more scan lines devoted to picture and less to the black bars.

In reality, does the picture look better? I don't know, but some guy at work keeps trying to convince me that people in the know say it doesn't. However, I suppose it's possible that these people that this guy has spoken to are comparing the WEGA to a regular 16x9 TV, which has more scan lines to begin with.

Scott

Yes, there are still black bars on a (4x3) VVega in 16x9 mode.

Yes, the picture is smaller.

And most importantly, YES, the picture is much better. Very crisp, very sharp, excellent color. (Using Avia first helps.)

Toad

So does the "anamorphic" transfer really have no affect if watching on a VVega in 16X9 mode?

Toad

The picture is smaller?? Smaller than watching a widescreen DVD on a 4X3 TV without the 16X9 enhancement? Can't see the logic there.

evenswr

???





"No effect?"
Well, yes, it has an effect.
The scan lines move to the center of the screen.
As opposed to a non-anamporphic widescreen transfer, in which the scan lines don't move, and are wasted on the black bars on the top and bottom.

Toad

Right.

So the black bars remain in 16X9 mode, yet the scan lines aren't wasted? Am I getting this right?

Mr. Salty

Click here:

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articles/anamorphic/

reverb

Think of it like this: With your Sony Wega, if you have a DVD that is NOT an anamorphically enhanced transfer of a 'widescreen' film then lines of resolution are used to display both the film image and all of the black letterbox bars. If you have a DVD that IS an anamorphically enhanced transfer of a 'widescreen' film then most of the lines of resolution are used for the image and most of the black letterbox bars are generated electronically, not encoded on the DVD using lines of resolution that could have been used for the image. Thus the image is made up of more lines of resolution. In 16:9 mode your Wega will properly compress the anamorphically enhanced image, putting all of those lines of resolution into the aspect ratio of a 16:9 TV, which is 1.78:1

William Ward

Reverb got it. If the DVD isn't anamorphic, then the DVD picture will contain the WS image with the black bars. If it IS anamorphic, then the DVD picture will contain a squished image that will be stretched out horizontally by the 16/9 mode. All available resolution will be put into the 16/9 area.

This will leave small black bars encoded on 2.35:1 material and will have very tiny black bars encoded on a 1.85:1 DVD. They are very tiny and aren't even visible on a true 16/9 TV due to overscan.

And yes, instead of 370 lines of resolution going to 1.85:1 image and 110 to black bars, you get 480 lines of resolution going to 1.85:1 image and maybe 5 or 6 of the 480 lines to black bars on top and bottom. So you get roughly 474 lines of resolution. (This isn't the exact number but you get the idea)

You get roughly 300 lines of resolution going to a non-enhanced 2.35:1 DVD with 180 going to black bars. On an enhanced DVD you get up to about 370 with 110 going to black bars.

The real trick though, is that you actually lose resolution when viewing anamorphic titles on a 4:3(without 16/9) because the player removes about a fourth of the lines(Letterbox lines also). So the 16/9 mode will display the same image shape with more lines using a 16/9 mode on a VVEGA.

evenswr

Well, don't say it's a squished image. That makes it sound like the picture will look funny, when in actuality, it will look better.