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Permission to buy!!!

Old 07-30-01, 08:33 AM
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Permission to buy!!!

Ok guys, my wife gave me the ok to purchase the Denon 3802 receiver. Well, it kind of went like this:

Wifey: Whatcha doin?
Me: Checking out receiver prices.
Wifey: Oh yah, any good deals?
Me: (While checking out the 3802 specs) This one that I'm looking at is going for $809 on the net.
Wifey: Man, $800 bucks!? I don't care if you get it but boy thats a log of cash!

Hey, the way I read it is "Sure honey, thats fine, what ever you want."

SOOOO, my big question is what good speaker setup should I get to go along with this receiver? I don't have that much corner space. Have looked at the Bose Acustimas setup (cubed speakers on stands). I know, Bose sucks and is nothing more than a marketing company but if I could find a similar setup that would be fantasic (black or white, white preferred). Looking to get 2 fronts, 2 sides and 2 rears, center speaker and woofer.

Don't have a lot of cash to drop on the speakers since the receiver is setting me back a few.

Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.
Old 07-30-01, 09:10 AM
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I recommend the bookshelf speakers from PSB and Paradigm. They have great speakers for about $200 - $250 a pair that are quite small. A complete 7.1 speaker setup should run you about $1200 retail (online can be a lot less). IMHO if can't spend that much on speakers you should look at a 5.1 setup with a $500 receiver (there are some nice receivers at that price).

I wouldn't recommend going for the smallest speakers since they can't move the amount of air needed to fill a room with sound. Bose is terrible and doesn't even come with a sub (they have a bass module which is very different).
Old 07-30-01, 09:16 AM
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If you are going to buy the Bose speakers, then dont bother getting the Denon.

Why spend all that money on such a great receiver only to hook up Bose speakers to it? Your buying a Denon with (1) some serious power and (2) some nice sounding amps...good clean power. Why run it to Bose speakers?

Thats like giving Ultra Gasoline to a '76 Gremlin. Whats the point?

There are other options you have, especially if you have the money for the acoustimas.

You can get Paradigm Titans all around ($200/pair) and a CC-170 center ($250). Then buy a sub to go with it. You can probably get a package that includes all of this.

PSB Alphas would be better and do the trick.

Even JBL makes a package that would sound better then the Bose.

What is your budget?

Do you have to get such small speakers?

Do you really need white?



Where do you live?
Old 07-30-01, 10:55 AM
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If you must get White the PSB Alpha Intros come in that color. But they are the lowest end of the PSB line. The good news is that they are real small.
Old 07-30-01, 11:01 AM
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Bose is not the way to go.

For excellent sound for tight spaces, look into Gallo Acoustics:

http://www.roundsound.com/

The speakers are about the size of an orange. They make around sub as well.
Old 07-30-01, 11:06 AM
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Here's a link to the color selection page:
http://www.roundsound.com/colors/colors.htm


By the way, you don't need to use the funky stands, they come with an
O-ring so they can sit on top of the TV set or other flat surface.


Old 07-30-01, 11:37 AM
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If you need small speakers, the Galloís, as mentioned above, are a good option and they come in a bunch of color options. The Gallo's offer a wonderful, rich mid range and a tiny footprint, but the high frequencies are rolled off a bit too much for my taste. The PSB Alpha's are small and sound good.

You might also look at the NHT Super Zeros. These are being heavily discounted as new models have been introduced. Beyond these: there's the Energy Take 5, the JBL NSP-1, Klipsch Quintet, and the Linn Kan's (which can be had used for a very attractive price), plus a host of others.

As mentioned above, if you have limited funds, you might consider a less expensive receiver---something like the Outlaw ($500) or a refurb. Of course if your existing speakers will satisfy for a time, you could purchase new speakers in phases with the long term goal of upgrading all of them. Not knowing what you have, I would buy in this order:

1) Center
2) L/R
3) Sub (if you donít have a sub now, consider buying one after the center)
4) Surrounds

WRT to Bose, IMO the criticism often expressed here is extreme and largely unfounded. Bose are not terrible sounding speakers by any stretch. They fill a real consumer need to provide decent sound in a small package that does not visually dominate a room. As with most niche products, the consumer pays a premium both in terms of dollars and compromised performance.

Without question, you can find a much better sounding speaker package than any Bose system for the same or even less money. For example, with appropriate electronics the Gallo, PSB, NHT, Linn, or Energy will definitely sound better than Bose. But of these, only the Gallo is as small as the Bose.

What I'm suggesting, is that in absolute terms Bose are not the worst-sounding-speaker-system-on-the-planet as some here argue; rather they are not a good value for the money. But if your installation requires something unobtrusive and you don't want to go w/ in-wall speakers, there are only so many options. Bose is simply one of these options. :-)
Old 07-30-01, 01:18 PM
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Wow, got a lot of good replies. Thanks guys.

I wasn't looking at buying a bose setup but would like to get a system similar.

Color isn't a big issue. My house is a 1932 dutch colonial 2 family home. Living on the 2nd floor. All my wood trimming is old white trimming. So white would looke best but black would do.

I did get a chance to look at the Galo's and they do look impressive I must say. I like the fact that the sub is passive and can be virtually placed anywhere away from the subs amp.

Now, if I go with this setup what center channel would you recommend?

I plan on taking some snaps of my living room so you guys can get a feel for what I have to work with.
Old 07-30-01, 01:37 PM
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How much money do you want to spend for speakers?
Old 07-30-01, 02:12 PM
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I don't expect to get the whole setup at once. If I need to I'll just pick up a center channel and 2 fronts for now and then fill in the rest when I get the funds to cover it.

I won't get the receiver (Denon 3802) until I get a few speakers.
Old 07-30-01, 02:24 PM
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Originally posted by powaking
Now, if I go with this setup what center channel would you recommend?
If you go Gallo, buy an extra micro to use as the center speaker. BTW: they also make an active subwoofer in addition to the passive one. In my experience you will have better results with the powered model. YMMV.
Old 07-30-01, 02:26 PM
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Well there are many speakers out there ranging from $200/pair to $20,000 and up/pair.

I have auditioned many of the speakers in the $500-$2000 range and I can tell you there are some incredible speakers out there. I would not sacrafice good sound because you want a small speaker. Although I have not heard these smaller speakers, I doubt they can produce the same quality of average-sized speakers.

Here are some brands I would check out: Klipsch, Paradigm, NHT, Acoustic Research, Definitive Technology. They make incredible speakers starting around $200/pair for mains.

The most important thing you can do is listen for yourself. Whatever sounds best to you, is the right speaker. But, I would start by listening to models of the brands above. Good luck.
Old 07-30-01, 09:40 PM
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Originally posted by powaking
I did get a chance to look at the Galo's and they do look impressive I must say. I like the fact that the sub is passive and can be virtually placed anywhere away from the subs amp.

Now, if I go with this setup what center channel would you recommend?

Simple, use all 5 identical speakers.

FYI, some product reviews:

http://www.roundsound.com/revtxt-soundstage.htm

http://www.roundsound.com/revtxt-etown.htm
Old 07-30-01, 09:46 PM
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Originally posted by powaking
I don't expect to get the whole setup at once. If I need to I'll just pick up a center channel and 2 fronts for now and then fill in the rest when I get the funds to cover it.

It might be better to only get the front 2 at first, because DD 5.1
is discrete, and your sound will be a bit wacky. If you're buying
gradually, better to use stereo only, then add the center and
surrounds all at the same time later.

I agree about getting a powered sub, passive subs are an
odd leftover from the early days of HT.....

Good luck!
Old 07-30-01, 10:30 PM
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I think everyone is missing the most important thing.

She ALMOST gave consent. If you want to go ahead and buy it, understand and mitigate the ramifications of your actions. Here is my recommendation.

Get an ad for a receiver that costs $1200. Read it with a lot of enthusiasm. Share the specs with her. Then either she asks or you drop that it's a bargain at $1200. She of course will say "[email protected][email protected] " and you look hurt and a little bothered....but not too much. Quickly get an understanding look on your face, and say "yeah...honey you are right, that is too much. What was I thinking?!?" Look a little chastened here.


Then brighten up. "You know, that $800 receiver is almost as good. Yeah..I would be pretty happy with that, and that makes a LOT more sense finanically. Damn...it may even be a better receiver!"

Then buy the $800 unit. Set aside a little bit of cash and buy her something.

You can always get speakers...but the wife is more important.
Old 07-30-01, 11:00 PM
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Originally posted by randyc
I think everyone is missing the most important thing.

She ALMOST gave consent. If you want to go ahead and buy it, understand and mitigate the ramifications of your actions. Here is my recommendation.

Get an ad for a receiver that costs $1200. Read it with a lot of enthusiasm. Share the specs with her. Then either she asks or you drop that it's a bargain at $1200. She of course will say "[email protected][email protected] " and you look hurt and a little bothered....but not too much. Quickly get an understanding look on your face, and say "yeah...honey you are right, that is too much. What was I thinking?!?" Look a little chastened here.


Then brighten up. "You know, that $800 receiver is almost as good. Yeah..I would be pretty happy with that, and that makes a LOT more sense finanically. Damn...it may even be a better receiver!"
Very smooth, I'll have to jot this down.



Then buy the $800 unit. Set aside a little bit of cash and buy her something.
Would new interconnects would be a good gift here?




You can always get speakers...but the wife is more important.
True, I mean we're not talking JM Lab Grand Utopias or
anything -- in that case, things would get pretty ugly.

 
Old 07-30-01, 11:12 PM
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Originally posted by M i c h a e l
It might be better to only get the front 2 at first, because DD 5.1 is discrete, and your sound will be a bit wacky. If you're buying gradually, better to use stereo only, then add the center and surrounds all at the same time later.
To each his own. I'd get the 3 new fronts and use your existing surrounds. True, the speakers won't be timbre matched, but you'd have full surround sound as opposed to stereo. Besides, the surrounds are the least important as far as matching goes; unless you are ultra-critical, you will most likely find this set up to work fine until you can afford to purchase matching surrounds.

Originally posted by nizzo
I have auditioned many of the speakers in the $500-$2000 range and I can tell you there are some incredible speakers out there. I would not sacrafice good sound because you want a small speaker. Although I have not heard these smaller speakers, I doubt they can produce the same quality of average-sized speakers.


Part of what makes this hobby fun are the various points of view and the individual challenges of each installation. My HT shares space as my living room. A priority in planning my system was to choose components that would integrate favorably with my retro-50ís furnishings. I wanted something unobtrusive, something that did not scream ďbest-buy showroomĒ but that offered decent sound and value. I was willing to sacrifice sound quality (up to a point) to achieve this design goal. In the end, I settled on NHT Super Zeros.

In making my selection I listened to a wide range of small speakers. Youíre absolutely right; none of these micro designs offer the dynamics or low frequency response of larger designs. But above about 100HZ or so, some of these speakers sound quite good. If I had the luxury of dedicating a room to HT, I would definitely have purchased something else. My priorities and yours differ. Iím also somewhat less critical of HT sound, than 2 channel quality.

I do have a dedicated room for 2 channel listening. Here, I donít care what the room looks like; Iím virtually the only one who ever sees the space. For me, listening to music is a private, solitary experience, whereas HT is a communal one. In this room, I have the space for larger speakers and the freedom to position them for optimum sound. Itís easy to forget that larger speakers arenít just larger, they typically need to be placed far from room boundaries where they can visually dominate a space.

IMO a successful installation is one that meets the major priorities of the owner with the minimum of compromise. Itís fairly easy to get good sound. But itís much more difficult to create a quality system thatís easy on the eyes. To paraphrase your closing remarks, each individual must decide whatís most important for them.
Old 07-31-01, 12:55 AM
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Wifey: Man, $800 bucks!? I don't care if you get it but boy thats a log of cash!


Girl speak translation to guy speak: Man, I know you really want it and its expensive but I don't want to keep holding you back so I'll let you get it now but I'm expecting you to do something big for me for our anniversery/my birthday/dinner this Friday/let me get that expensive dress I want/ other.

You didn't say a price range but I heard some of the Paradigm Atom's and they're pretty good and not that expensive or size intrusive, also the matching center that comes with them is big and powerful enough to create a nice sound stage in a small-med room (if its the center I'm thinking of). Course, with a 3802 you might want to go with some more powerful speakers like the Monitor 7's or Phantoms. Just be sure to listen to them first. The JBL NSP-1 set is also a good choice.
Old 07-31-01, 08:18 AM
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Originally posted by Outlaw
Wifey: Man, $800 bucks!? I don't care if you get it but boy thats a log of cash!


Girl speak translation to guy speak: Man, I know you really want it and its expensive but I don't want to keep holding you back so I'll let you get it now but I'm expecting you to do something big for me for our anniversery/my birthday/dinner this Friday/let me get that expensive dress I want/ other.
Too true!

Old 07-31-01, 09:54 AM
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Originally posted by audrey


To each his own. I'd get the 3 new fronts and use your existing surrounds.

Did he say he had existing speakers? I was under the impression he was starting
from scratch. Sure, if you have two older speakers, get the front 3 Gallos, but if
you're starting from scratch, go with 2 first, then add the center and surrounds later.
Old 07-31-01, 11:26 AM
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Originally posted by randyc
Get an ad for a receiver that costs $1200. Read it with a lot of enthusiasm. Share the specs with her. Then either she asks or you drop that it's a bargain at $1200. She of course will say "[email protected][email protected] " and you look hurt and a little bothered....but not too much. Quickly get an understanding look on your face, and say "yeah...honey you are right, that is too much. What was I thinking?!?" Look a little chastened here.

Then brighten up. "You know, that $800 receiver is almost as good. Yeah..I would be pretty happy with that, and that makes a LOT more sense finanically. Damn...it may even be a better receiver!"
.
You have to figure out a way to have her a part of the solution, rather than just playing off your ideas. Leave the $800 flyer/ad out somewhere she will look at, and let her think that she talked you down to "something more reasonable"
Old 07-31-01, 11:27 AM
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I think its more like:

"Babe, sure, if thats what you truely want then go right ahead. Because, now, we're going to go pick up my Tiffany bracelet and a few things at Neiman Marcus. If you don't mind. I mean, after all, you are getting that thing you said you need."

Yes, I am starting from scratch. I can't see how the Gallo's would perform well as a center speaker.

Anyone use them for this application?
Old 07-31-01, 11:32 AM
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Originally posted by M i c h a e l
Did he say he had existing speakers? I was under the impression he was starting from scratch.
You're absolutely right; he hasn't said one way or the other. Oops.
Old 07-31-01, 12:38 PM
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Originally posted by powaking
Yes, I am starting from scratch. I can't see how the Gallo's would perform well as a center speaker.

Did you read the two reviews posted earlier?

http://www.roundsound.com/revtxt-soundstage.htm

http://www.roundsound.com/revtxt-etown.htm


I'd also suggest listening to them in person, they have a dealer search on
the site where you can locate one nearby.

Good luck!


 
Old 08-01-01, 10:18 AM
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Do you yanks have Kef?

Theres a great Uk speaker company called Kef - I'm sure there available in the USA.

Their main selling point is the uni-q driver tech - puts the tweater in the center of the driver .

Then they create this

These are 'full range' (i.e. equive of bookshelf) 2 way drivers that come with a sub and are small & sexy.

Sound almost as good as 'proper' speakers & way better than Bose...

RRP(recomended retai price) of £800 can be found for £600 ish.

Check em out...

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