Disappointed with Energy Take 5
06-26-01, 04:55 PM
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After hearing how highly people regard this package I went and ordered one. I've had it for about 6 months and it hasn't impressed me that much. I've also got a Denon 1801 (I know, I know, as you can tell I was on a tight budget) My friends weren't very impressed with the sound coming from these speakers either. Of course because of the small size, I wasn't expecting a huge massive sound from the speakers, but what I do hear hardly sounds anything like what I hear at the movie theater even when I play DVD's in 5.1. The Energy speakers do however have a very nice and clear sound that doesn't distort even when the volume is turned way up but it doesn't sound like what I hear at the theater. I'm disappointed because they costed quite a bit too and I was expecting a little more for the money. From what my friends pointed out and what I noticed too is that they have good clear highs but not good midrange. Even my TV speakers have more midrange. What I'm asking is for your expert advice for a set a speakers that are better(are more room filling soundwise and have decent high/mid/lows). All I need are 2 good left and right mains, possibly towers, and a good center. I've only got around $300, maybe $400 or a little more which isn't much, but I only need fronts and centers. I want to be able to hear cymbols crash but still be able to hear decent mid. Any advice would be greatly appreciated, thanks!
06-26-01, 05:17 PM
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06-26-01, 05:59 PM
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what I do hear hardly sounds anything like what I hear at the movie theater even when I play DVD's in 5.1.
What I'm asking is for your expert advice for a set a speakers that are better(are more room filling soundwise and have decent high/mid/lows).
***Frequency Response from Sound and Vision
N-24 front left/right.... 89 Hz to 18.9 kHz ±2.7 dB
N-Center................. 89 Hz to 20 kHz ±5.5 dB
N-24 surround............ 89 Hz to 18.4 kHz ±3.2 dB
As of June 26th, one site list
the JBL NSP1's are $273.99 + S/H - CNET price check - Lets Go Digital
http://electronics.cnet.com/cgi/CEML...&sortby=price]
and the Sony SA-WM40 are $158.99 + S/H - CNET price check - Xtreme Shopper.com
http://electronics.cnet.com/cgi/CEML...rs&pid=1003094
So, you can get the entire setup for around $433 plus S/H thru the internet and get blockbuster theater sound as described by Brent Butterwort
The N-Center matches the sound of the N24 extremely well, better than Home Theater Direct's Level Three center matches the sound of its Level Three bookshelf. That excellent timbre matching lends coherence to the sound of the entire system, making movies seem more like I was hearing them in a real theater, not a home theater.
Daniel Kumin (Sound and Vision Magazine) wrote:
- Tonal balance The balance of the front L/R N24 speakers was pleasingly natural with stereo music, . . .Both male and female voices sounded excellent, evenly balanced. . .
- Dynamic potential. The sound was solid up to a loud volume - the satellites 4-inch (nominally 5-inch) woofers and slightly larger cabinet give them a dynamic edge over most micro satellites with 3-inch drivers - . . ." (NOTE: The Energy Take 5 has 3-inch drivers)
- WRAP-UP This JBL system's value for the money is obvious. Getting such well-balanced sound, with notable bass extension and no salient vices, from a package priced just under $900 is impressive.
- Dynamic potential. The sound was solid up to a loud volume - the satellites 4-inch (nominally 5-inch) woofers and slightly larger cabinet give them a dynamic edge over most micro satellites with 3-inch drivers - . . ." (NOTE: The Energy Take 5 has 3-inch drivers)
- WRAP-UP This JBL system's value for the money is obvious. Getting such well-balanced sound, with notable bass extension and no salient vices, from a package priced just under $900 is impressive.
For more JBL INFO and reviews, see my webpage Why you should add JBL N & S Series to your audition list!
Compare the JBL NSP1 S&V Speaker Graphs vs. 21 other S&V Speaker Graphs @ my website "Are Bose Speakers Over Priced vs. Performance"
http://www.geocities.com/p_iturra/Misc_HT_Speakers.html
Phil
06-26-01, 06:52 PM
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Outlaw,
You can use that money to upgrade your main speakers or you center channel which would improve your soundstage considerably. Go demo the eXL-16. By sticking with the Energy line you will have a timber matched sound system.
You can use that money to upgrade your main speakers or you center channel which would improve your soundstage considerably. Go demo the eXL-16. By sticking with the Energy line you will have a timber matched sound system.
06-27-01, 10:43 AM
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I hope you have learned something. Never take solely people's word when it comes to audio. Everyone has their own particular taste and people's advice should only point you in a direction.
The best way to find the perfect speaker in your price range is to actually go to an Audio/Video shop in your area. Every decent sized town will have one and major cities will have dozens. You may have to drive to get to one, but it will be worth it.
Sometimes, after you find a speaker you like, you can find it online for cheaper at places like ebay and ubid.
My advice would be to make a trip to an A/V store and check out speakers by Energy, Paradigm, Klipsch, Acoustic Research and Definative Tech. and see what souds best to you.
You may want just to purchase a set of mains for $400-500 and then save up to purchase a center channel later. Go hear for yourself and good luck.
The best way to find the perfect speaker in your price range is to actually go to an Audio/Video shop in your area. Every decent sized town will have one and major cities will have dozens. You may have to drive to get to one, but it will be worth it.
Sometimes, after you find a speaker you like, you can find it online for cheaper at places like ebay and ubid.
My advice would be to make a trip to an A/V store and check out speakers by Energy, Paradigm, Klipsch, Acoustic Research and Definative Tech. and see what souds best to you.
You may want just to purchase a set of mains for $400-500 and then save up to purchase a center channel later. Go hear for yourself and good luck.
06-27-01, 11:56 AM
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While I fully agree with nizzo that you should audition prospective components at a B&M store (though in-home is better), I take exception to his comment about buying on-line after benefiting from the services of the B&M store.
Although it's true that you may pay a bit more at a local audio salon, in the long run the benefits of developing a good relationship with a knowledgeable sales team outweigh the cost difference and might save you money in the long-run. Many small shops (I'm talking here about stores that specialize in home audio, not the giants like Best Buy or Circuit City) offer a wide range of valuable services such as:
* In home evaluation of components (usually over a weekend)
* Liberal return policies in the event a product does not meet your expectations
* Free set-up and delivery
* Liberal trade-in allowance. Many will allow you to trade in speakers for full value within one year.
* Good advice to help you select appropriate products and upgrades.
* Loaners in the event a product fails.
IMO, if a store has provided you with good advice and service you should buy from that store. If price is an issue, negotiate with the store; don’t just click on the cheapest e-tailer.
Although it's true that you may pay a bit more at a local audio salon, in the long run the benefits of developing a good relationship with a knowledgeable sales team outweigh the cost difference and might save you money in the long-run. Many small shops (I'm talking here about stores that specialize in home audio, not the giants like Best Buy or Circuit City) offer a wide range of valuable services such as:
* In home evaluation of components (usually over a weekend)
* Liberal return policies in the event a product does not meet your expectations
* Free set-up and delivery
* Liberal trade-in allowance. Many will allow you to trade in speakers for full value within one year.
* Good advice to help you select appropriate products and upgrades.
* Loaners in the event a product fails.
IMO, if a store has provided you with good advice and service you should buy from that store. If price is an issue, negotiate with the store; don’t just click on the cheapest e-tailer.
06-27-01, 12:55 PM
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Ive got most of my stuff online and saved over $1500, which is about 50% off of retail price. I think it's definitely worth going online if you can find such good deals, but if the online price is only slightly better than the B&M store, go with the B&M. The B&M stores I dealt with would not come down much on their price so I didnt buy from them.
Be wary about online stores, some manufactures will not honor the warranty if not purchased thru and authorized dealership.
Be wary about online stores, some manufactures will not honor the warranty if not purchased thru and authorized dealership.
06-27-01, 02:03 PM
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Some questions
Outlaw: Because I love my Take-5s with the 8" sub, I'd like to ask some basic questions to make sure you're getting the most out of your system.
1. Do you have a subwoofer?
2. Do you have everything set up correctly in your receiver: small speaker setting, center channel on (not phantom or sent to mains), etc.?
3. Are your speakers positioned reasonably well?
I'm sure that you have a sub, but wanted to ask since you didn't mention it and lack of a sub would definitely lead to perceived lack of mid-range in the speakers.
I'd experiment a little bit with things before getting a whole new set-up. On the other hand, you'll probably get a decent return if you ebay your current stuff.
1. Do you have a subwoofer?
2. Do you have everything set up correctly in your receiver: small speaker setting, center channel on (not phantom or sent to mains), etc.?
3. Are your speakers positioned reasonably well?
I'm sure that you have a sub, but wanted to ask since you didn't mention it and lack of a sub would definitely lead to perceived lack of mid-range in the speakers.
I'd experiment a little bit with things before getting a whole new set-up. On the other hand, you'll probably get a decent return if you ebay your current stuff.
06-27-01, 05:05 PM
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Thanks for all the reply's, they've been a real help. To start off, I've got the SAWM-40 sub which is pretty good for the price I got it. I've had this system for a long time and have messed around with the the settings on my receiver a lot which has helped somewhat but not enough, I should have mentioned that I've got a fairly large sized family room which is probably the main reason. I should have heeded the warnings about large room sizes but I took the chance heheheh. When I stand close to my TV the sound is more powerful but when I sit back where my couch is it sounds like the sound is coming from far away even when the volume is turned up (I'm talking about the center speaker).
I'm looking for a better hi-fi shop around my area. There is one but I don't like it very much. They treat their customers like crap. The last time I went there I asked them if they had JBL brand speakers (I had never heard any before then and wanted to hear them) and they started laughing and saying how JBL brand speakers are terrible and how their's are much better. Probably because they aren't licensed to carry those and don't have any competition in this area, but they do have a good variety of other brands like Paradigm, Marantz, Denon, Klipsch. I've never heard of having In Home Evaluation but that sounds like the best idea for me. I'll be searching for and asking people in the shops to find one that has that. I do know of another hi-fi store thats about a half to 1 hour away which I'll check out later this week.
I looked through some of the Paradigm speakers in the Performance line and the Phantoms look pretty good for mains and they're only $399 a pair, does anyone have these? Of course I'll have to listen to them first hehe, in my house would be even better. I've got the JBL nsp1 and paradigm as well as anything else the people at the "nicer" , hopefully, hifi store help me with on my audition list. Anything else? Thanks again I really appreciate the advice.
I'm looking for a better hi-fi shop around my area. There is one but I don't like it very much. They treat their customers like crap. The last time I went there I asked them if they had JBL brand speakers (I had never heard any before then and wanted to hear them) and they started laughing and saying how JBL brand speakers are terrible and how their's are much better. Probably because they aren't licensed to carry those and don't have any competition in this area, but they do have a good variety of other brands like Paradigm, Marantz, Denon, Klipsch. I've never heard of having In Home Evaluation but that sounds like the best idea for me. I'll be searching for and asking people in the shops to find one that has that. I do know of another hi-fi store thats about a half to 1 hour away which I'll check out later this week.
I looked through some of the Paradigm speakers in the Performance line and the Phantoms look pretty good for mains and they're only $399 a pair, does anyone have these? Of course I'll have to listen to them first hehe, in my house would be even better. I've got the JBL nsp1 and paradigm as well as anything else the people at the "nicer" , hopefully, hifi store help me with on my audition list. Anything else? Thanks again I really appreciate the advice.
06-27-01, 07:05 PM
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It is all physics. A big room can easily have 5 times more volume than a small size (Double each of the three dimensions and the volume increases eightfold). To ask small speakers to produce enough sound waves to fill a large room with theater like sound in probably asking too much. They simply can't move enough air.
So, some larger floorstanding speaker are in order. Here are some thoughts.
I auditioned the Paradigm Phantoms a few months back and really liked them. They are the least expensive floorstanding speakers that I like.
I love the PSB Image Series speakers. They sound great, and are reasonably affordable. I cannot say enough good things about these speakers. Paradigm's Monitor Series has some nice options.
Many people love the Klipsch line and many people hate it. I'm somewhere in between. I say listen to them at the store and see if like them. They have sensitivity ratings as high as 102dB (meaning they sound louder than other speakers when driven by the same amount of power).
So, some larger floorstanding speaker are in order. Here are some thoughts.
I auditioned the Paradigm Phantoms a few months back and really liked them. They are the least expensive floorstanding speakers that I like.
I love the PSB Image Series speakers. They sound great, and are reasonably affordable. I cannot say enough good things about these speakers. Paradigm's Monitor Series has some nice options.
Many people love the Klipsch line and many people hate it. I'm somewhere in between. I say listen to them at the store and see if like them. They have sensitivity ratings as high as 102dB (meaning they sound louder than other speakers when driven by the same amount of power).
06-28-01, 08:25 AM
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I haven't seen anybody mention this: have you calibrated your system with Avia or Video Essentials and an SPL meter? That can make a world of a difference.
06-28-01, 10:02 AM
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You mentioned your local A/V shop has Klipsch.
I have a pair of the Legends series KLF20 and love them. They have been discontinued and the store may have them cheap.
I would also check out the Reference series. The RF3 Towers are incredible, I think they are around $400-500. Listen for yourself if you have the time. Not everyone likes Klipsch's sound, but I love it. Good luck on your search.
I have a pair of the Legends series KLF20 and love them. They have been discontinued and the store may have them cheap.
I would also check out the Reference series. The RF3 Towers are incredible, I think they are around $400-500. Listen for yourself if you have the time. Not everyone likes Klipsch's sound, but I love it. Good luck on your search.
06-28-01, 02:28 PM
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Originally posted by Outlaw
(snip) I'm looking for a better hi-fi shop around my area. There is one but I don't like it very much. They treat their customers like crap. The last time I went there I asked them if they had JBL brand speakers (I had never heard any before then and wanted to hear them) and they started laughing and saying how JBL brand speakers are terrible and how their's are much better. (snip)
(snip) I'm looking for a better hi-fi shop around my area. There is one but I don't like it very much. They treat their customers like crap. The last time I went there I asked them if they had JBL brand speakers (I had never heard any before then and wanted to hear them) and they started laughing and saying how JBL brand speakers are terrible and how their's are much better. (snip)
06-28-01, 03:06 PM
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Originally posted by audrey
Sadly, just as there are good stores w/ a helpful, knowledgeable sales team, there are those infused with a condescending, we-know-more-than-you attitude. Although JBL is making a bit of a come back, the company has not enjoyed much success in the high-end community. Some hi-fi stores don’t sell JBL (and other brands) as they are readily had from the major chains. Many of the smaller stores try to carve out a niche by selling brands that are not widely available through the larger, mass-market chains. Best of luck.
Originally posted by Outlaw
(snip) I'm looking for a better hi-fi shop around my area. There is one but I don't like it very much. They treat their customers like crap. The last time I went there I asked them if they had JBL brand speakers (I had never heard any before then and wanted to hear them) and they started laughing and saying how JBL brand speakers are terrible and how their's are much better. (snip)
(snip) I'm looking for a better hi-fi shop around my area. There is one but I don't like it very much. They treat their customers like crap. The last time I went there I asked them if they had JBL brand speakers (I had never heard any before then and wanted to hear them) and they started laughing and saying how JBL brand speakers are terrible and how their's are much better. (snip)
Im sure some of you will disagree, but mass market stores like Best Buy and Circuit City are the "Wal-Mart" of electronics. There are exceptions (dvd players and some TV's), but most of their stuff is just low quality.
It's fine for most people, but once you hear the speakers at the High Quality A/V shops, you will wonder how you ever listened to anything less.
The mass market JBL speakers are just not "high quality" with regards to sound. JBL may make a high-end line like Sony ES or Pioneer ELITE, but I am unaware of it.
Compare the speaker brands I listed above with the JBL speakers at Best Buy and you will see that there is no comparison. The "high-end" speakers completely blow away the mass-market ones.
Ive been to A/V shops were the salesmen were jerks, and I didnt like it, but there are correct in saying their products are better than mass market ones. For the price of large floorstanding speakers at bestbuy, you can spend just a little more for speakers with tenfold the quality.
At any rate, audio is completely dependent on your personal taste. I am just suggesting that anyone should hear these higher end speakers, because once I did, I can never go back to listening to the mass market ones.
06-29-01, 03:04 PM
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5 PSB Alpha A/V speakers will run $500 and will knock
your socks off. No sub necessary either, but can be
added later.
Best of both worlds: high-end 2-channel stereo, and
outstanding HT when using all 5.
The PSB Alpha never ceases to amaze.
your socks off. No sub necessary either, but can be
added later.
Best of both worlds: high-end 2-channel stereo, and
outstanding HT when using all 5.
The PSB Alpha never ceases to amaze.
06-29-01, 05:24 PM
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Copied from a post I made to another thread.
Check out the PSB Alpha Series Speakers.
I have the Century Series 300i's and 100ci (replaced by Image Series) which are one step up from the Alpha's and they sound great. I have them hooked up to a Denon AVR2700.
Reviews
Alphas
http://www.stereophile.com/showarchives.cgi?241
http://www.psbspeakers.com/HomeTheaterST.html
http://www.audioreview.com/reviews/S...ct_45355.shtml
Image Series
http://www.hometheatermag.com/shownews.cgi?79
PSB speaker selection page to help you sort through mixing and matching for different budgets and varying levels of expectation and performance.
http://www.psbspeakers.com/HomeTheaterST.html
[Edited by BubbaX on 06-29-01 at 03:27 PM]
Check out the PSB Alpha Series Speakers.
I have the Century Series 300i's and 100ci (replaced by Image Series) which are one step up from the Alpha's and they sound great. I have them hooked up to a Denon AVR2700.
Reviews
Alphas
http://www.stereophile.com/showarchives.cgi?241
http://www.psbspeakers.com/HomeTheaterST.html
http://www.audioreview.com/reviews/S...ct_45355.shtml
Image Series
http://www.hometheatermag.com/shownews.cgi?79
PSB speaker selection page to help you sort through mixing and matching for different budgets and varying levels of expectation and performance.
http://www.psbspeakers.com/HomeTheaterST.html
[Edited by BubbaX on 06-29-01 at 03:27 PM]
06-30-01, 10:31 AM
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The mass market JBL speakers are just not "high quality" with regards to sound.
JBL - N24 mini-speaker by Brent Butterworth, April 11, 2000 -- for etown.com (partial excerpts from review)
http://www.geocities.com/p_iturra/N24_Review.html
There's a popular misconception that the more expensive speakers in a line sound better than the inexpensive ones. My life would be oh-so simple if this were true. I can't tell you how many times I've marveled at hearing a little two-way bookshelf speaker blow away its top-of-the-line three- and four-way siblings. That's what happened at JBL's 1999 line show last fall, when the company demo'ed nearly every speaker from its Northridge line. To my shock and delight, the speaker with the best midrange was the humble little N24 under review here, which you can pick up for the paltry sum of $199.98/pair list.
This little speaker surprises in every way, especially in its bass output and power handling.
My review samples came as part JBL's NSP1 home theater package, which includes four N24s and one N-Center center-channel speaker. The package also includes four of JBL's gimbaled OmniMount brackets, which are an extra-cost option with the standalone N24. The bracket makes it easy to wall-mount these speakers.
Performance: I've been using this little speaker for months now, as a surround speaker in my Surround EX setups and as a mini-speaker run full-range and plugged into my Definitive Technology ProCinema 80 system in place of the ProMonitor 80 mini-speakers. I drove 'em with all sorts of stuff, everything from my trusty Denon AVR-3300 A/V receiver to a McIntosh MA6500 integrated amplifier.
For a speaker of its size and price, I can't find anything that the N24 really does wrong. But here's what amazes me about it. First is the bass, which sounds surprisingly full for such a small speaker. I'd rate it as competitive with significantly larger speakers like Pioneer's S-DF1-K; I was shocked to hear a full sound even when I positioned the N24s on stands far from the walls. It's a ported design, and tends toward a little more boominess and a little less pitch definition than the acoustic-suspension stuff from companies like NHT and Definitive. The added fullness makes for a good trade-off, though -- unlike the SuperZero XU or the ProMonitor 80, this speaker is very easy to match up with practically any subwoofer.
When you get a listen to the mids, though, you'll forget how good the bass is. I think the midrange of this speaker may be the cleanest I've heard at $200/pair. I was astonished to hear voices on music CDs clear up when I switched from other mini-speakers to the N24. I've come to prize the ProMonitor 80 as a mini that gets the mids right, but the N24 gets the midrange even more right. Every singer I listened to sounded better even than on a lot of good $1000/pair speakers.
The treble's just there -- it doesn't call attention to itself; it doesn't amaze; but it never sounds less than competent. Sometimes I found myself pining for the more emphasized treble of the ProMonitor 80s. The JBL's titanium-laminate tweeter is definitely doing something very right, though, because the JBLs out-imaged any other mini I've used in a wall-mount configuration. I didn't think a wall-mounted speaker could image so well. Voices levitated in the air in front of me; the hand percussion in Holly Cole's "Train Song" floated about between the speakers; and I got much more sense of a soundstage than I'm used to getting.
Performance Rating: 90
Value: Show me a $200/pair mini-speaker that sounds or looks better.
Value Rating: 90
This is the mini-speaker I've started to recommend to my friends and family.
This little speaker surprises in every way, especially in its bass output and power handling.
My review samples came as part JBL's NSP1 home theater package, which includes four N24s and one N-Center center-channel speaker. The package also includes four of JBL's gimbaled OmniMount brackets, which are an extra-cost option with the standalone N24. The bracket makes it easy to wall-mount these speakers.
Performance: I've been using this little speaker for months now, as a surround speaker in my Surround EX setups and as a mini-speaker run full-range and plugged into my Definitive Technology ProCinema 80 system in place of the ProMonitor 80 mini-speakers. I drove 'em with all sorts of stuff, everything from my trusty Denon AVR-3300 A/V receiver to a McIntosh MA6500 integrated amplifier.
For a speaker of its size and price, I can't find anything that the N24 really does wrong. But here's what amazes me about it. First is the bass, which sounds surprisingly full for such a small speaker. I'd rate it as competitive with significantly larger speakers like Pioneer's S-DF1-K; I was shocked to hear a full sound even when I positioned the N24s on stands far from the walls. It's a ported design, and tends toward a little more boominess and a little less pitch definition than the acoustic-suspension stuff from companies like NHT and Definitive. The added fullness makes for a good trade-off, though -- unlike the SuperZero XU or the ProMonitor 80, this speaker is very easy to match up with practically any subwoofer.
When you get a listen to the mids, though, you'll forget how good the bass is. I think the midrange of this speaker may be the cleanest I've heard at $200/pair. I was astonished to hear voices on music CDs clear up when I switched from other mini-speakers to the N24. I've come to prize the ProMonitor 80 as a mini that gets the mids right, but the N24 gets the midrange even more right. Every singer I listened to sounded better even than on a lot of good $1000/pair speakers.
The treble's just there -- it doesn't call attention to itself; it doesn't amaze; but it never sounds less than competent. Sometimes I found myself pining for the more emphasized treble of the ProMonitor 80s. The JBL's titanium-laminate tweeter is definitely doing something very right, though, because the JBLs out-imaged any other mini I've used in a wall-mount configuration. I didn't think a wall-mounted speaker could image so well. Voices levitated in the air in front of me; the hand percussion in Holly Cole's "Train Song" floated about between the speakers; and I got much more sense of a soundstage than I'm used to getting.
Performance Rating: 90
Value: Show me a $200/pair mini-speaker that sounds or looks better.
Value Rating: 90
This is the mini-speaker I've started to recommend to my friends and family.
Phil
07-01-01, 06:32 PM
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NOTE: The PSB Image series are awful.
The lower-priced Alphas are in another league, for less
money! The $199 Alphas are actually in another league than
MOST speakers on the market, regardless of price (and my
main speakers are $2,500).
Listen to these little guys and be amazed! :-)
07-01-01, 07:49 PM
#19
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Originally posted by M i c h a e l
NOTE: The PSB Image series are awful.
The lower-priced Alphas are in another league, for less
money! The $199 Alphas are actually in another league than
MOST speakers on the market, regardless of price (and my
main speakers are $2,500).
NOTE: The PSB Image series are awful.
The lower-priced Alphas are in another league, for less
money! The $199 Alphas are actually in another league than
MOST speakers on the market, regardless of price (and my
main speakers are $2,500).
I can understand thinking that a speaker isn't your cup of tea, and everyone's well within his rights to feel that way, but I think that an extraordinary claim like the one you made would be better served with some surrounding facts.
By the way, I own a pair of $250 Alpha A/Vs (now discontinued), and I don't think that they're better than any speaker in the Image series. I do agree that all the Alphas are better than the Take 5 series, however, to get back on topic a bit.
07-01-01, 09:21 PM
#20
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Originally posted by stevevt
I disagree about you're assessment of the Image series. Which models have you heard? With what equipment? In what kind of room? For how long? Movies or music?
I can understand thinking that a speaker isn't your cup of tea, and everyone's well within his rights to feel that way, but I think that an extraordinary claim like the one you made would be better served with some surrounding facts.
By the way, I own a pair of $250 Alpha A/Vs (now discontinued), and I don't think that they're better than any speaker in the Image series. I do agree that all the Alphas are better than the Take 5 series, however, to get back on topic a bit.
I disagree about you're assessment of the Image series. Which models have you heard? With what equipment? In what kind of room? For how long? Movies or music?
I can understand thinking that a speaker isn't your cup of tea, and everyone's well within his rights to feel that way, but I think that an extraordinary claim like the one you made would be better served with some surrounding facts.
By the way, I own a pair of $250 Alpha A/Vs (now discontinued), and I don't think that they're better than any speaker in the Image series. I do agree that all the Alphas are better than the Take 5 series, however, to get back on topic a bit.
Hi Steve,
To address your questions:
Models: Image 1B, Image 2B.
Electronics: a top-line Denon receiver and CD player.
Room: An acoustically-treated audio store; properly placed speakers.
Length: 15 minutes each model.
Material: Dynamic movie soundtracks; well-recorded music (i.e., my usual auditioning CDs).
Afterwards, we placed the Alphas in the same position, and they just
came to life. The problems with the Image series are
clearly design related, and not a 'bad interaction' with
the room, electronics, or source material. They sounded
'boxy', plain and simple.
(By the way, I hope you didn't pay full list for the Alphas,
they are typically sold in the $200 range.)
The Alphas are clearly better than the Image series.
The Image series produce more bass, and have a more airy sound,
but they are severely colored and boxy sounding.
The Alphas are amazingly uncolored, and are consistently
ranked among the best-sounding speakers, especially when
their ridiculously small price tag is taken into account.
07-02-01, 07:50 AM
#21
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by M i c h a e l
Hi Steve,
To address your questions:
Models: Image 1B, Image 2B.
Electronics: a top-line Denon receiver and CD player.
Room: An acoustically-treated audio store; properly placed speakers.
Length: 15 minutes each model.
Material: Dynamic movie soundtracks; well-recorded music (i.e., my usual auditioning CDs).
Afterwards, we placed the Alphas in the same position, and they just
came to life. The problems with the Image series are
clearly design related, and not a 'bad interaction' with
the room, electronics, or source material. They sounded
'boxy', plain and simple.
(By the way, I hope you didn't pay full list for the Alphas,
they are typically sold in the $200 range.)
The Alphas are clearly better than the Image series.
The Image series produce more bass, and have a more airy sound,
but they are severely colored and boxy sounding.
The Alphas are amazingly uncolored, and are consistently
ranked among the best-sounding speakers, especially when
their ridiculously small price tag is taken into account.
Thanks for the details. I've heard the 1B, 2B, 3LR, and 4T in a similar store set up to the one you describe, but not for as long. I did, however, compare all of them with the Alpha A/V. I've also heard the 1B extensively in a friend's system (movies only) and the 3LR in a different friend's system briefly. Nothing I heard lead me to think that any of them had a design problem or were less neutral than the Alphas. To each his own. I think we'd both agree that people should listen for themselves and make up their own mind.
By the way, I paid dealer cost for my Alphas, which are the rears in my bedroom system.
Hi Steve,
To address your questions:
Models: Image 1B, Image 2B.
Electronics: a top-line Denon receiver and CD player.
Room: An acoustically-treated audio store; properly placed speakers.
Length: 15 minutes each model.
Material: Dynamic movie soundtracks; well-recorded music (i.e., my usual auditioning CDs).
Afterwards, we placed the Alphas in the same position, and they just
came to life. The problems with the Image series are
clearly design related, and not a 'bad interaction' with
the room, electronics, or source material. They sounded
'boxy', plain and simple.
(By the way, I hope you didn't pay full list for the Alphas,
they are typically sold in the $200 range.)
The Alphas are clearly better than the Image series.
The Image series produce more bass, and have a more airy sound,
but they are severely colored and boxy sounding.
The Alphas are amazingly uncolored, and are consistently
ranked among the best-sounding speakers, especially when
their ridiculously small price tag is taken into account.
By the way, I paid dealer cost for my Alphas, which are the rears in my bedroom system.
07-02-01, 02:49 PM
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Originally posted by stevevt
Thanks for the details. I've heard the 1B, 2B, 3LR, and 4T in a similar store set up to the one you describe, but not for as long. I did, however, compare all of them with the Alpha A/V. I've also heard the 1B extensively in a friend's system (movies only) and the 3LR in a different friend's system briefly. Nothing I heard lead me to think that any of them had a design problem or were less neutral than the Alphas. To each his own. I think we'd both agree that people should listen for themselves and make up their own mind.
Thanks for the details. I've heard the 1B, 2B, 3LR, and 4T in a similar store set up to the one you describe, but not for as long. I did, however, compare all of them with the Alpha A/V. I've also heard the 1B extensively in a friend's system (movies only) and the 3LR in a different friend's system briefly. Nothing I heard lead me to think that any of them had a design problem or were less neutral than the Alphas. To each his own. I think we'd both agree that people should listen for themselves and make up their own mind.
Image would make them passable for HT use (which is why you
probably didn't find much fault).
But music is the most telling test for a speaker (BTW, I
hope folks don't ever buy speakers listening only to
explosions from a DVD, that's a very poor teller of overall
sonic quality -- bring music CDs).
IMHO, the Alphas are overall better performers, and in
another class entirely for 2-channel stereo listening.
Try this test, sit your your Alphas on top of your good
speakers (in your main system), and listen to them with
music in stereo by themselves, you will be quite surprised!
At the lower levels, they hold their own against my NHT
mains pretty well.
But I agree, folks should definitely listen and compare
for themselves.
Happy listening!
07-02-01, 03:29 PM
#23
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Originally posted by M i c h a e l
(snip)But music is the most telling test for a speaker (BTW, I
hope folks don't ever buy speakers listening only to
explosions from a DVD, that's a very poor teller of overall
sonic quality -- bring music CDs).
(snip)But music is the most telling test for a speaker (BTW, I
hope folks don't ever buy speakers listening only to
explosions from a DVD, that's a very poor teller of overall
sonic quality -- bring music CDs).
07-02-01, 03:41 PM
#24
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Originally posted by M i c h a e l
IMHO, the Alphas are overall better performers, and in
another class entirely for 2-channel stereo listening.
Try this test, sit your your Alphas on top of your good
speakers (in your main system), and listen to them with
music in stereo by themselves, you will be quite surprised!
At the lower levels, they hold their own against my NHT
mains pretty well.
But I agree, folks should definitely listen and compare
for themselves.
IMHO, the Alphas are overall better performers, and in
another class entirely for 2-channel stereo listening.
Try this test, sit your your Alphas on top of your good
speakers (in your main system), and listen to them with
music in stereo by themselves, you will be quite surprised!
At the lower levels, they hold their own against my NHT
mains pretty well.
But I agree, folks should definitely listen and compare
for themselves.
I was using the Alphas as mains in my bedroom system for a few months, so I know that they're pretty capable little speakers. I was generally pretty satisfied. Agreed that they start to give up more and more to bigger and more expensive speakers at progressively higher SPLs. My main complaint was their lack of low end -- not surprising given that I was using them as mains with no sub.
Of course, now that you mention trying my Alphas in my main system I'll probably give it a shot just to see what they really can do.
