belloq

Any rumor of coupons next weekend?

bhcollector

Sorry if I ruffled your feathers with the word "exploiting" but seriously, what would you call the retail pricing of $39.95 for a Criterion Collection blu ray?!?!?!

Criterion no longer has the collectors market all to its own. Have you purchased any Eureka! Masters of Cinema releases? I got the Hitchcock Lifeboat disc (which includes the director’s two rare wartime propaganda films in French) and Dreyer’s Passion of Joan of Arc box set for about $13.50 each on amazon.co.uk. Or how about Orson Welles Touch of Evil in both widescreen and original aspect ratio? Or Frank Tashlin’s Will Success Spoil Rock Hunter which I got on sale for $12? Other British manufacturers are releasing interesting material on blu ray which you can get for $9 to $12 (Christopher Lee Dracula with lost footage, Brian DePalma’s Obsession with 5.1 mastered Bernard Herrmann score). Then you’ve got Twilight Time with isolated music scores, Arrow Academy, Cohen Film Collection, etc., etc. all getting into the act with lower prices. Criterion’s The Red Shoes normally sells for $39.95. During the B&N sale you can get it for $19.99—but you can currently get a new copy of the British restored blu ray starting at 4.17 GBP (roughly $6.50).

Yes, all this does presuppose that you own an all-region player—but I’m posting to a collector’s forum here, right? All the avid collectors I know bought all-region players years ago.

B&N membership plus a 20% off coupon (which I could use at several locations) used to bring the effective net price of a Criterion Collection blu ray down to $14.39 + tax. At that price I was willing to drop $100 to $200 per sale. If I only get one or two 20% off coupons per sale then (as I said) my buying will drop to $30.

Blu ray sales have dropped significantly in the last few years—except in the collector’s market. The demographic here is 40+ years old (maybe even 50+ years old) and predominantly male. At $15 per disc we are much more like to “try” a title or indulge in “collect them all” behavior, but as the price rises our spending falls off dramatically—because we know we have cheaper alternatives of similar or better quality. As another poster pointed out, Criterion Collection “extras” have become more paltry with newer releases, and those of us who still own laserdisc versions of some of the tiles (e.g. The Fisher King) find very little new to justify getting the new format—unless it’s at $15 or less.

And don’t imagine I’m “exploiting” either Barnes & Noble or Criterion by driving revenue into their locations. Criterion gives B&N significant discounts as well as pays for advertising and signage on these sales and B&N wants bodies in their stores to try to generate revenue from other departments--married collectors know their wives often accompany us on our sales outings and spend money while we are poking through the blu rays. I’ve seen Barnes & Noble close about half their locations in my area in the last three years: if they make their instore promotions less attractive I expect another half of their stores to be gone in the next two years.

What I don’t understand is why Criterion doesn’t develop a more robust loyalty program and just sell their product directly to collectors. A $50 gift certificate with every purchase of $500 of product (i.e a 10% discount) is hardly enticing. Nor is web pricing at $31.94 per disc which usually is $5 to $7 more than what amazon.com charges as their everyday price on various titles (which Criterion has sold to them at wholesale cost + discounts + extended terms). In future Criterion will have to make a serious price reduction (to $29.95 or $24.95) and/or gear up their direct sales department—or face the consequences.

Criterion is not Pixar—it’s not going to take over one of the major studios and run their reissue department because they do such a fabulous job. Unless they change, they’re going to be run out of business by the competition.

dsa_shea

By wanting to be able to use the exact same unique coupon again and again you are trying to exploit the system. Just get a handful of the 15% coupons that are out there and go about it that way. Yes, the retail price of Criterion releases is a bit steep, but you do not have to purchase any. If I can get a Criterion that I am truly interested in for between 14 and change to 16 and change then that is fair enough for me. We are lucky to get Criterions from Amazon for 19.99 from time to time. Their usual sale price is around 22.99. So, you can either look at it that way and be content with the deals you are getting or just not buy any more Criterions from B&N.

By the way, I am 40 years old and predominantly male.

bhcollector

And unmarried?

cine

15%-off one-item coupon-codes -- expiring 7/12:

If you use one, please let the others know which code you took.

dsa_shea

Nope! Married and have two children. It is just easy to realize that wasting time with bitching about a few dollars in difference for movies that nobody really needs to have is a bit overboard. Now, if we were talking about bacon selling for astronomical prices then you might have a case. Right now you have a choice to either buy Criterions from B&N using coupons that are out there for a substantial savings over Amazon, buy from Amazon directly or just not buy any at all and take up something else in life. You know why I don't fish? I think it is boring and a waste of my time. So, instead of doing it and bitching about it to the people that are with me, I just find other things to do with my time that I do enjoy.

js2shops

Um, no offense, but the key word there is retail. Criterion sets that, you know, Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price. And $39.95 is not just for Blu-Rays, but for an asinine number of just plain DVDs they offer.

Granted, Criterion (or much more likely, a middle vendor) is not charging BN that- everyone is making a buck. But that is obviously the price point that a) they have chosen and b) what a significant portion of their audience has accepted to pay, at least as a base MSRP.

Basic economics states that if the demand weren't there, they would be charging a lower price...or going out of business. Since neither of those has happened, most folks are probably paying it. And when you're having these sweet, sweet CC sales at BN, or anywhere else- the retailer is taking the profit hit and reducing their margin, not the company. Criterion has already made their money.

FWIW, 35 and single. Avid film-fan, but I only buy things that a) I know I'm going to watch more than once and b) are cost effective. For example, I just bought A Most Violent Year on Blu for $10 at Target. It was cheaper at the time than the DVD. I'm not an idiot, and didn't pass it up...but I'm not going for Blus just to have Blus- I'll save money any way I can to buy or go see more movies!

bhcollector

Glad to hear it.

Married with children means you are far more likely (demographically speaking) to be open to opposing views from your own.

You may also have enough disposable income not care about adding extra dollars to the cost of each disc as well as the extra time of finding all the additional codes for each purchase.

Now I’ll give you the counter view: during the sale last December I visited my local Barnes & Noble where the assistant manager was letting us use the same coupon over and over (with separate transactions) for about 10 discs each. There were at least three collectors there at the time and B & N made roughly $700 off us in the space of a half an hour. I’ve been in some Barnes & Nobles over the past few days and have seen NO BIG PURCHASES of Criterions anywhere. True this is only anecdotal evidence of about 4 hours shopping in three stores—but I’ve also found the sections remarkable well-stocked on a weekend, leading me to believe the sale is not doing as well as in the past.

With B&N’s new policy I won’t be spending hundreds of dollars with them every year, but will instead wait for periodic amazon sale prices ($17.99 to $19.99) where I will have the discs delivered to my home—saving more time and money. So B & N will not get any additional profit off of me (or any other collectors used to paying $14.39 for discs we feel are vastly over-priced)—but will lose sizeable revenue.

You’re quite right, I have better things to do with my time and money than deal with a chain where I am usually more knowledgeable (and helpful for that matter) than the clerks—and don’t get me started on the deficiencies of their website.

(You don’t by any chance work for Barnes & Noble or own their stock? You seem remarkably chivalrous in defense of their mediocrity)

rainkins

I know there are only a few hours remaining in the sale, but I have two 15% off coupons I won't be using -- if anyone wants them, let me know.

I think I also have a definitive answer regarding multiple online orders. The mobile site is the same as the desktop site in only allowing one coupon per batch per account, but the Barnes & Noble app appears to allow unlimited (unique) coupons on orders from the same account. Using the app, I was able to place two 15% coupon orders on the same member account I had already used with a 15% coupon on the desktop site.

Unfortunately, the app is only available for iOS devices (which is why I wasn't able to try it until today). Also, you have to manually enter your member number in addition to logging in in order to get free member shipping.

AMERICAN

..i could use one, thanks

bhcollector

Thanks for your comments, but you seem unaware of how retail promotions usually work.

The manufacturer initiates the promotion with the retailer, not the other way around. The manufacturer offers the retailer a deep discount to take in larger than normal quantities of stock. The manufacturer pays for advertising and the retailer usually charges additional fees for signage as well as commissions (a form of kick-back) to their various administrative departments to let the promotion go forward. Additionally, the manufacturer usually offers the retailer extended terms for payment on the product (anywhere from 90 to 150 days)—so no, Criterion “hasn’t already made its money” on this sale, and probably won’t for another 2 to 4months.

In the case of music and video (unlike clothing for instance) the manufacturer usually also agrees to accept returns—often months or even years later—of excessive unsold product.

So much for Music/Video Retail Promotions 101.

My main points here are :

1) Barnes and Noble used to allow multiple use of a coupon and have now closed that loophole, which I think will significantly reduce collector sales at their stores during these sales.

2) Criterion now has a lot of competition from other manufacturers offering as good or better releases for significantly lower prices—both MSRP and when titles go on sale.

As to the second point, here is another example: the British Film Institute (BFI) released a Carl Theodore Dreyer blu ray box set April 20, 2015. It includes Master of the House (1925) | Good Mothers (1942) | Day of Wrath (1943) | The Fight Against Cancer (1947) | The Village Church (1947) | They Caught the Ferry (1948) | Thorsvaldsen (1949) | Storstrom Bridge (1950) | A Castle Within a Castle (1955) | Ordet (1955) | Gertrud (1964) as well as a ton of extras (870 total minutes of material).

You can buy the Criterion Master of the House blu ray (107 minutes with a couple of minor extras) on sale with a coupon at Barnes & Noble for $17 + tax or you can get the BFI box set from amazon.co.uk for about $54 including shipping. Which would you get?

You may remember how in 2001: A Space Odyssey Stanley Kubrick chose PAN AM for the logo on his future space clipper, believing the quality and performance of the airline would surely see it into the next century. But they went the way of the dodo because they failed to remain competitive. You may find Criterion going the way of Pan Am sooner than you think!

rainkins

^^^ Agreed, I am also confused about what "loophole" has been closed. The only difference I'm seeing from previous sales is that different coupons from the same batch used to be usable online and now are not, but I don't know what individual coupons that used to be multiple-use are now single-use.

rainkins

Hmm, the PM option still isn't showing up for me. If you want to set your profile to accept email I'd be happy to email one to you.

bhcollector

If the managers in your area still let you use the same coupon multiple times then definitely more power to you, but that's not my experience here in Southern California.

And if people are willing to pay higher prices for luxury items so be it.

I was in the record business for 25+ years and remember when the British House of Parliament decided to mount an investigation into "the reason for the high prices of compact discs." Their conclusion: high prices had no other basis than people were willing to pay them!

So perhaps all you devotees of B&N and Criterion can keep them afloat by not changing your buying habits.

On the other hand I'm curtailing my purchases as I wouldn't at all be surprised to see a major price drop coming from them in the next 12 to 18 months: as I've already limited buying titles to twice a year I can certainly afford to wait and spend my money elsewhere with different manufacturers during that time.

dsa_shea

What is the damn difference between a 20% coupon that you can use multiple times and getting a new 15% off coupon, which they are out there, for each transaction? About one damn dollar! Is this really worth getting worked up over? Now, if they only allowed to you to use one coupon period then you would have a gripe. I have purchased 11 movies with my disposable income at a premium of one dollar more per movie because of the difference between one 20% coupon and multiple 15% coupons. I'm in the poor house now.

Giles

I'm having the same problem. And the two new 15 and 20% coupons aren't working for Criterion titles either.

starkiller

Sadly couldn't find everything in stock in time, here's 3 extra 15% off.

bhcollector

Temper, Temper.

As I said, "if people are willing to pay higher prices for luxury items so be it."

Buyers are in the driver's seat as far as driving prices down with this particular type of product--if they choose to exercise their purchasing power.

If you like buying discs for more money without the option of returning a defective one (because you can’t watch all 11 discs within B&N’s 14 day returns policy) then fine.

But take a quick look at ebay where you currently can find multiple brand new Criterion blu rays for $18 with no tax and free shipping. Add your time + gas expense + $25 membership and is the B&N Criterion sale as worthwhile as it used to be?

I know some folks may actually enjoy visiting Barnes and Noble stores, but I honestly find my time better spent browsing at the University library. And I’ve never bought anything on the B&N website which did not take more time to arrive than amazon.com. At least Amazon prime actually gives you something for the $75 membership.

rainkins

Since PM isn't working for me yet, here are my extra 15% off codes if anyone wants them.

dsa_shea

Sounds like you have more of a problem with B&N than just buying Criterions from them. By the way, if you have a problem with a Criterion past your return date, you can get it replaced by Criterion themselves.

mhurne

Sorry for sending these so late, just got back in town if anyone can use by 2:59am ET Monday morning. They are all 15% codes:

HHRPMFFKY6KEP
5V4D4RSL9RYCP
5A3N9VK6JXJ54
8FSDP6Z2C5PG3
U36VKBFRPKFV5
XDAEE984DVN2U
33J8WDJBS5XQL
16957ENEMABV3

js2shops

Um, wow. I work for a major media retailer. I won't speak to how BN works internally, but based on what I know about how we do it, you'd be incorrect.

If you're dealing with a major book publisher, directly, then yes the stock returns ("credit") would be happening. Depends on how big the account is and how much product is ordered/selling every month. This is what killed Borders.

These days, I think most sales are initiated by the stores, not manufacturers. DVDs are not cars with massive incentives. Do you think Best Buy gets an incentive from Disney to push the latest release as a loss leader? They know people will most likely want it when it is a new release. They more likely get a better rate on a quantity of the title, for a limited time. They may also get other titles looped in at a better rate. Stores then make a lower profit margin for a while, taking a risk of unsold stock at the price they were hoping to move units on. The retail psychology studies show they will make it up on the back end if they can get customers to buy more than one thing- they profit and spending go up at a huge rate, exponentially for every item a customer buys.

This is why there is less and less in the way of remaindered DVDs at places like Big Lots. Less is being manufactured, less is being ordered by stores, and less is being sold to customers. The supply chain has gotten very lean- no one carries backstock in stores.

Whether you like it or not, Criterion is really a niche market. A couple of times a year BN gets a better deal from them or a vendor to move titles and generate interest. The margins are probably crazy high the rest of the year.

You want a real bloodbath? Take a look at the "back to black" movement for new vinyl lp releases. A company guessing wrong on an artist/title there leads to a ton of stock sitting around. The margins on it are crazy small. It's a niche market loss leader to get people to buy other stuff, like record shops making their cash on used LPs.

DoverMath

BN changed their return policy to 14 days a while back. Same both online and in-store (I checked an old receipt).

mhurne

Any word as to new coupons coming on 7/16 or 7/23 to coincide with the Criterion sale scheduled to end on 7/27?

BuckNaked2k

Any guidance on why coupon code U8K4F7Y ($8 off one (1) DVD or Blu-ray with a BN.com Price of $40 or higher) will not work online with $47 box set?? Thanks in advance.