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Rorschach 12 issue maxi-series coming in October by King & Fornes

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Rorschach 12 issue maxi-series coming in October by King & Fornes

Old 07-15-20, 11:06 AM
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Rorschach 12 issue maxi-series coming in October by King & Fornes

This is the project Tom King had been teasing everyone about. Don't know the status of Batman & Catwoman or if that book was just a red herring to hide the Rorschach project. Also, Alan Moore isn't credited in this book at his request.


Tom King and Jorge Fornés Present a New Vision
of One of the Most Riveting Characters from
Watchmen

Rorschach

Rorschach may have spoken truth, but he wasn’t a hero.

Set 35 Years After Dr. Manhattan Turned Rorschach to Dust,
New DC 12-Issue Maxiseries Begins Tuesday, October 13

BURBANK, CA (July 15, 2020) – DC proudly presents a new 12-issue maxiseries debuting this October by Tom King (Mister Miracle) and Jorge Fornés (Batman), together delivering a new vision of one of the most riveting characters from Watchmen—a figure in a fedora and a trench coat, loved by some, reviled by others—Rorschach.

It’s been 35 years since Ozymandias was exposed for dropping a giant telepathic squid on New York City, killing thousands and ending the public’s trust in heroes once and for all. The Minutemen are gone; only their memory lives on. Especially the infamy of Rorschach, who has become a cultural icon since Dr. Manhattan turned him to dust.

Rorschach may have spoken truth, but he wasn’t a hero.

"Like the HBO Watchmen show and very much like the original ‘86 Watchmen, this is a very political work.” said King. “It’s an angry work. We’re so angry all the time now. We have to do something with that anger. It’s called Rorschach not because of the character Rorschach, but because what you see in these characters tells you more about yourself than about them.”

So what does it mean when Rorschach reappears as part of a pair of assassins trying to kill the first candidate to oppose President Robert Redford in decades? Follow one determined detective as he walks backward in time, uncovering the identities and motives of the would-be killers, taking him deep into a dark conspiracy of alien invasions, disgraced do-gooders, mystical visions, and yes, comic books.

Writer Tom King joins forces with artist Jorge Fornés to explore the mythic qualities of one of the most compelling characters from the bestselling graphic novel of all time, Watchmen.

Rorschach #1, by Tom King, Jorge Fornés, Dave Stewart and Clayton Cowles, will publish on October 13, 2020, and carry DC’s Black Label descriptor, identifying the content as appropriate for readers ages 17+. The book will retail for $4.99 with card stock cover artwork by Fornés and a variant cover by Jae Lee.

Rorschach character co-created by Dave Gibbons.

For more information on Watchmen, DC, and the World’s Greatest Super Heroes, visit the website at
www.dccomics.com and follow on social media @dccomics and @thedcnation.

About DC:
DC is one of the largest publishers of comics and graphic novels in the world and home to some of the most iconic and recognizable characters ever created. As a creative unit of WarnerMedia, DC is charged with strategically integrating its stories and characters across film, television, consumer products, home entertainment, interactive games, and the DC Universe digital subscription service. For more information visit dccomics.com and dcuniverse.com.

Old 07-15-20, 11:11 AM
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Re: Rorschach 12 issue maxi-series coming in October by King & Fornes

So basically After Watchmen? Is this even tying into Doomsday Clock (which to my knowledge still isn't finished) at all or just revisiting the Universe?
Old 07-15-20, 12:26 PM
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Re: Rorschach 12 issue maxi-series coming in October by King & Fornes

Originally Posted by fujishig
So basically After Watchmen? Is this even tying into Doomsday Clock (which to my knowledge still isn't finished) at all or just revisiting the Universe?
Doomsday Clock is over. Issue 12 was released back in February and left the door open for more stuff. As for this series, it seems that it will go back and forth between past, present and future.
Old 07-15-20, 12:49 PM
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Re: Rorschach 12 issue maxi-series coming in October by King & Fornes


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Old 07-15-20, 12:56 PM
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Re: Rorschach 12 issue maxi-series coming in October by King & Fornes

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man
I don't know. With the exception of the ending, Doomsday Clock wasn't bad at all and the Watchmen TV series proved that there's life to this property. The main detractor about this has been Alan Moore like if he was the only one who had input in creating this world. Dave Gibbons is fine with this, so there shouldn't even be an problem that series like this come out.
Old 07-15-20, 12:59 PM
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Re: Rorschach 12 issue maxi-series coming in October by King & Fornes

So wait Rorschach is alive after the events of Watchmen? I took him being vaporized as him dying. I think he’s the most marketable character so him getting a mini series makes sense and could be interesting.
Old 07-15-20, 01:02 PM
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Re: Rorschach 12 issue maxi-series coming in October by King & Fornes

Originally Posted by Mike86
So wait Rorschach is alive after the events of Watchmen? I took him being vaporized as him dying.
He was vaporized (unless this was reversed in Doomsday Clock).

So wait, without spoiling Doomsday Clock for me, is the Watchmen Universe still distinct from the DC Universe and this is happening there, but in continuity with the effects of Doomsday Clock? Or is this pretending Doomsday Clock didn't happen? Because a Rorshach shows up in Doomsday Clock...

I should check DC Universe to see if that mini has been put on there yet (or if it will before they shutter the service)
Old 07-15-20, 01:23 PM
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Re: Rorschach 12 issue maxi-series coming in October by King & Fornes

Originally Posted by Red Hood
I don't know. With the exception of the ending, Doomsday Clock wasn't bad at all and the Watchmen TV series proved that there's life to this property. The main detractor about this has been Alan Moore like if he was the only one who had input in creating this world. Dave Gibbons is fine with this, so there shouldn't even be an problem that series like this come out.
Considering that co-creators who own their work normally have to agree on how their stuff is further licensed, I don’t think it’s fair to say well the guy who drew it is fine with it, so who cares what the guy who wrote it thinks.

DC/WB have been dicks the whole time with regards to Alan Moore. At one point he says, I don’t care what you do with my work, just don’t use my name to promote it. Then the Watchmen TV series writer Lindelof goes out of his way to say “Fuck you Alan Moore”, using the author’s name to promote the series through faux controversy.

DC/WB at another point said something like, “Okay Alan, the Watchmen movie tanked. If you write a Watchmen 2 comic, we’ll give you the rights back.”

And Moore gave his half of the movie money to Gibbons on the condition that Gibbons doesn’t try to get him to come back to DC for anything. And Dave Gibbons still did just that.

I didn’t support Before Watchmen, the HBO series, and I won’t be supporting this either.

Had DC just treated Moore fairly at the beginning we could have had a proper Watchmen sequel, and all that ABC Comics magic could have been used to give life to DC’s stagnant comics. The guy was supremely creative and talented but they wanted to act sneaky with Watchmen and V for Vendetta.
Old 07-15-20, 01:37 PM
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Re: Rorschach 12 issue maxi-series coming in October by King & Fornes

Originally Posted by brayzie
Considering that co-creators who own their work normally have to agree on how their stuff is further licensed, I don’t think it’s fair to say well the guy who drew it is fine with it, so who cares what the guy who wrote it thinks.

DC/WB have been dicks the whole time with regards to Alan Moore. At one point he says, I don’t care what you do with my work, just don’t use my name to promote it. Then the Watchmen TV series writer Lindelof goes out of his way to say “Fuck you Alan Moore”, using the author’s name to promote the series through faux controversy.

DC/WB at another point said something like, “Okay Alan, the Watchmen movie tanked. If you write a Watchmen 2 comic, we’ll give you the rights back.”

And Moore gave his half of the movie money to Gibbons on the condition that Gibbons doesn’t try to get him to come back to DC for anything. And Dave Gibbons still did just that.

I didn’t support Before Watchmen, the HBO series, and I won’t be supporting this either.

Had DC just treated Moore fairly at the beginning we could have had a proper Watchmen sequel, and all that ABC Comics magic could have been used to give life to DC’s stagnant comics. The guy was supremely creative and talented but they wanted to act sneaky with Watchmen and V for Vendetta.
I feel the other way around. As much as I like Moore's writing, he can be an ass about shit like this. For many, many years, people attributed Moore in interviews and other things like sole creator of Watchmen and he didn't correct them. Gibbons has been very clear that Moore is the only one that doesn't want to work on that property because of his disdain of the big Two and Dave has no problem with the continuation of these stories as it gives opportunities to other writers and artists to play with them the same way that Moore played with Superman, GL, Swamp Thing and every other DC creation. He feels that DC has screwed him by keeping Watchmen in print for all these years when in reality there's no reason as to why DC should take it off print as is their cash cow when it comes to graphic novels. Why would DC take Watchmen off print when it sells thousands of copies a year? I mean, the book is taught at numerous universities as part of the English curriculum so it would be stupid of them to take it off print.

My point is that Moore is a contrarian and an antagonistic type of person, who will say shit like there's no good Marvel or DC books over the past 30 years without reading any of them and then say that Neil Gaiman's Sandman was great (which was written in the past 30 years). He signed the contract then, when he could have easily taken the project elsewhere with new characters. No one forced him and if he wanted, he could get all the profits from the book and the derivatives that have come off it. He simply refuses to do so at the same time he used for the better part of the last 2 decades a multitude of characters he didn't create on the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen
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Old 07-15-20, 02:08 PM
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Re: Rorschach 12 issue maxi-series coming in October by King & Fornes

This has been well documented but I'll add that at the time of the original contract, nobody could have envisioned something like Watchmen staying in print the way it did. I don't think DC did it maliciously at all at the time, and Moore couldn't have known that it would be a perennial collection, it's everything after that that kind of goes awry.
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Old 07-15-20, 03:21 PM
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Re: Rorschach 12 issue maxi-series coming in October by King & Fornes

Originally Posted by fujishig
He was vaporized (unless this was reversed in Doomsday Clock).
Yeah, that’s what’s confusing. Seems pretty clear that he died, but yet this is supposed to be set after the events of Watchmen. I would think if anything a prequel would make sense, but we already got that with Before Watchmen (I didn’t read any of those, or the Doomsday Clock for that matter).
Old 07-15-20, 03:28 PM
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Re: Rorschach 12 issue maxi-series coming in October by King & Fornes

Originally Posted by Mike86
Yeah, that’s what’s confusing. Seems pretty clear that he died, but yet this is supposed to be set after the events of Watchmen. I would think if anything a prequel would make sense, but we already got that with Before Watchmen (I didn’t read any of those, or the Doomsday Clock for that matter).
I think that's part of the mystery, but we can probably assume it's either someone else taking up the mask or some kind of clone from Ozymandias. I don't think you go with Manhattan recreating him and he's really the only one with actual super powers in that universe (if you take that away, I don't really get what the point is of revisiting that universe).
Old 07-15-20, 07:05 PM
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Re: Rorschach 12 issue maxi-series coming in October by King & Fornes

For those who didn't read Doomsday Clock (spoilers below):

Spoiler:
The original Rorschach is still dead. The Rorschach in Doomsday Clock is Reggie Long, the son of Dr. Malcolm Long (the psychiatrist who examined Walter Kovacs in prison). It is implied at the end of Doomsday Clock that Reggie will continue to be Rorschach. Not sure if that works in with this new mini-series.

The Watchmen universe and the DC universe are still separate universes. The changes Dr. Manhattan made in the past (and creating The New 52) are changed back in Doomsday Clock. The JSA and Legion of Super-Heroes are returned along with Superman's parents. At the very end of the mini-series, Dr. Manhattan fades away after transferring his life force into the Watchmen Earth and his powers to the son of Mime and Marionette. He names the boy Clark and sends him to live with the retired Nite Owl and Silk Spectre.

There are still remnants of Manhattan's interference lingering in the DCU. Mainly a residue of his power left behind on the Mobius Chair which is now controlled by Wally West.





Love this cover!

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Old 07-15-20, 09:03 PM
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Re: Rorschach 12 issue maxi-series coming in October by King & Fornes

I’m one of the few who thinks more works in the Watchmen ‘verse help rather than hurt the original work. I’ve always felt one of the weaknesses of the original is that they were brand new characters with no past or emotional history to them.

Works like Before Watchmen and Doomsday Clock help give some depth to the characters and story that make the main story of the original novel that much more important.

So I’m looking forward to reading this.
Old 07-16-20, 08:32 AM
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Re: Rorschach 12 issue maxi-series coming in October by King & Fornes

Originally Posted by milo bloom
I’m one of the few who thinks more works in the Watchmen ‘verse help rather than hurt the original work. I’ve always felt one of the weaknesses of the original is that they were brand new characters with no past or emotional history to them.

Works like Before Watchmen and Doomsday Clock help give some depth to the characters and story that make the main story of the original novel that much more important.

So I’m looking forward to reading this.
The Watchman characters are just a mirror version of the old Charleston Comics superheroes. Rorschach is Steve Ditko's Question in real thin disguise.



​​​​



Old 07-16-20, 09:29 AM
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Re: Rorschach 12 issue maxi-series coming in October by King & Fornes

Originally Posted by ddrknghtrtns
The Watchman characters are just a mirror version of the old Charleston Comics superheroes. Rorschach is Steve Ditko's Question in real thin disguise.



​​​​
I get that, I do, but it's still too many degrees of separation for me.
Old 07-16-20, 11:09 AM
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Re: Rorschach 12 issue maxi-series coming in October by King & Fornes

They are analogs, sure, to the Charlton superheroes, but there's a reason they were made distinct and kept in a separate universe. If you just replaced all the Watchmen with the Charlton characters, few of them work (with regards to personalities at least). Except maybe Nite Owl/Blue Beetle. It was for the best and gave Moore and Gibbons a lot more leeway, I think. And I do feel like everything you need to know about them is contained in that book, and that everything else with the possible exception of the tv show is extraneous. Doesn't mean it's all bad, it's just extraneous. In some ways it mirrors the way that the other seminal comic book of that period has been "expanded" in later times, ie: Dark Knight Returns.
Old 07-16-20, 06:56 PM
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Re: Rorschach 12 issue maxi-series coming in October by King & Fornes

Originally Posted by milo bloom
I’m one of the few who thinks more works in the Watchmen ‘verse help rather than hurt the original work. I’ve always felt one of the weaknesses of the original is that they were brand new characters with no past or emotional history to them.
As far as I'm concerned, The Watchmen is a perfect closed circle of a story. It is complete in and of itself, with no need for any prequels or sequels or side stories. It begins in #1, ends in #12, and tells you everything you need to know. Even the open, ambiguous ending works with the story.

That said, I did enjoy the HBO series as a derivative work, but I don't consider it canon with the original.

Last edited by Josh-da-man; 07-16-20 at 06:57 PM. Reason: typo
Old 07-17-20, 04:20 AM
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Re: Rorschach 12 issue maxi-series coming in October by King & Fornes

Originally Posted by Red Hood
For many, many years, people attributed Moore in interviews and other things like sole creator of Watchmen and he didn't correct them.
I don't remember reading interviews where people said he was the sole creator.

He feels that DC has screwed him by keeping Watchmen in print for all these years when in reality there's no reason as to why DC should take it off print as is their cash cow when it comes to graphic novels. Why would DC take Watchmen off print when it sells thousands of copies a year? I mean, the book is taught at numerous universities as part of the English curriculum so it would be stupid of them to take it off print.
You're missing the point of Moore's issue with the company. DC president Jenette Kahn told Alan Moore that the rights to Watchmen would revert back to him and Gibbons once the the book went out of print. Oh, while we're at it Alan, why don't you bring your creator-owned work V for Vendetta over here too, so you can finish it under the same deal? Especially since Kahn was touting herself and the company for "pioneering work we did for creator's rights."

You'd think if both were an unprecedented success, Watchmen created during his time at DC, and V for Vendetta, a series he already began publishing in the UK prior, then DC would renegotiate the contracts to allow him and the artists to get back the rights at some point. But they didn't want to do that. In addition, DC didn't even want to pay them royalties for Watchmen merchandise like the badge set because they claimed they were "promotional items."

My point is that Moore is a contrarian and an antagonistic type of person, who will say shit like there's no good Marvel or DC books over the past 30 years without reading any of them and then say that Neil Gaiman's Sandman was great (which was written in the past 30 years).
Moore's personal opinion on the quality of Marvel and DC has nothing to do with the actions of DC Comics and their deceptive practices.

I do think it was funny, that DC's and Geoff Johns' big event at the time was based on a random back-up story Alan Moore wrote for an issue of Green Lantern Corps Annual. Quality wise, the 10-15 page story "Tygers" was far more imaginative than the 45-part Blackest Night.

I was DC reader at the time and yeah, the quality at DC wasn't there. Grant Morrison and Frank Quitely's All-Star Superman was a hit, but Alan Moore told essentially the same story, and in a better way, way back in 1992 with Supreme. Up until that point all the Wonder Woman reboots were average at best, including leather jacket Wonder Woman and Vertigo Wonder Woman. Compare that to Promethea. And Top 10 was amazing, and a better superhero team book than Brad Meltzer's JLA.

And I think his criticism of DC Comics at the time was on point. All this hype from DC, what were they doing at the time that's new? What are they doing now that's new?
Alan Moore has done:

V for Vendetta
Watchmen
Promethea
Tom Strong
Top 10
From Hell

He signed the contract then, when he could have easily taken the project elsewhere with new characters.
Yeah, because big conglomerates are known for writing up the most honest and easy-to-understand contracts, with no deceptive legal jargon whatsoever.

The point is, is that DC Comics/Warner Bros have acted poorly with regard to their treatment of the creators, in particular Alan Moore.

However, in March 2005, Joel Silver falsely claimed that Moore had endorsed the script of V for Vendetta (James McTeigue, 2005), an adaptation of another of Moore’s stories that DC owned. When Warner Brothers refused to correct Silver’s claim, Moore quit Wildstorm, demanding “his name be removed from the V for Vendetta film” and “from any of his work that DC might reprint.”[39] Moore subsequently forbade his name to appear on film adaptations.[40] Although Moore and Gibbons do not own Watchmen, they do own their names, and therefore Moore’s demand that Warner Brothers not use his name on new texts had legal force. Warner Brothers would then resort to other means to construct the authenticity and merit of their Watchmen adaptation.
After that Alan Moore didn't want his name to be used to promote the 2009 Watchmen movie. Company man at the time Grant Morrison went on a promotional tour to keep Alan Moore's name in his mouth while praising the movie.

Then when the movie flopped, and after he let Dave Gibbons have Moore's share of the Watchmen film royalties with the stipulation that Gibbon's doesn't try to get him to come back to DC under any circumstances, Gibbon's does just that.

“They offered me the rights to Watchmen back, if I would agree to some dopey prequels and sequels,” says Moore in the interview. “So I just told them that if they said that ten years ago, when I asked them for that, then yeah it might have worked. But these days I don’t want ‘Watchmen’ back. Certainly, I don’t want it back under those kinds of terms."
We'll give you back the rights to the book you guys created, that we initially promised you was a creator-owned project...but only if you write some sequels for us twenty years later.

And recently, with the HBO series, Damon Lindelof did the same thing, keeping Alan Moore's name in his mouth in order to promote the upcoming TV show.

Alan Moore interview about his problems with DC Comics

Last edited by brayzie; 07-19-20 at 08:23 PM.
Old 07-17-20, 04:44 AM
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Re: Rorschach 12 issue maxi-series coming in October by King & Fornes

It's weird that DC already has most of the "real" versions of Watchmen but they can't make them work.

The killed off The Question and replaced him with Renee Montoya. And that didn't stick.

They killed off Blue Beetle.

Dr. Manhattan is Captain Atom.

Silk Spectre is Phantom Lady.

The Comedian is The Peacemaker.

The only one I don't think they own any more is Ozymandias's analog, Peter Cannon Thunderbolt.
Old 07-17-20, 10:00 AM
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Re: Rorschach 12 issue maxi-series coming in October by King & Fornes

Originally Posted by brayzie
It's weird that DC already has most of the "real" versions of Watchmen but they can't make them work.

The killed off The Question and replaced him with Renee Montoya. And that didn't stick.

They killed off Blue Beetle.

Dr. Manhattan is Captain Atom.

Silk Spectre is Phantom Lady.

The Comedian is The Peacemaker.

The only one I don't think they own any more is Ozymandias's analog, Peter Cannon Thunderbolt.
I would argue that they made Blue Beetle work just fine, considering he could have easily been lost in the shuffle with his similarity to Batman and lack of powers. I feel like Captain Atom just never recovered from the switcheroo they did for Armageddon. But I think part of what made these characters compelling (besides the writing of course) in the Watchmen Universe is that they were in their own universe where there's only one person with any powers.
Old 07-17-20, 05:21 PM
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Re: Rorschach 12 issue maxi-series coming in October by King & Fornes

Originally Posted by fujishig
I would argue that they made Blue Beetle work just fine, considering he could have easily been lost in the shuffle with his similarity to Batman and lack of powers. I feel like Captain Atom just never recovered from the switcheroo they did for Armageddon. But I think part of what made these characters compelling (besides the writing of course) in the Watchmen Universe is that they were in their own universe where there's only one person with any powers.
I agree with that. The world of Watchmen was interesting and is completely different from the DCU. But didn't DC bring the Watchmen characters into their universe? Didn't Superman interact with Dr. Manhattan? Watchmen was supposed to take place in alternate reality of the "real" world where Superman is just a comic book character, so having them mix it up with the DCU ruins that.

I've considered Watchmen to be somewhat of a serious work of fiction. I think it cheapens the concept company to churn out all these sequels and prequels without the participation and consent of the writer, and treat the characters the same as the rest of their cartoon characters. It'd be like finding out some corporation owns the rights to George Orwell's 1984 and was releasing a sequel titled 1985 where it turns out Winston Smith survived and is leading the resistance against Big Brother.


Old 07-17-20, 05:23 PM
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Re: Rorschach 12 issue maxi-series coming in October by King & Fornes

Alan Moore is a brilliant writer but he's such a whining bore. And as far as Rorshach getting vaporized... so was Jon Osterman. It's just a matter of putting the proper pieces together in order. IF that's what they're doing.

Either way, I doubt it'll come out anywhere near as well as the HBO series, let alone the original comic masterpiece.
Old 07-17-20, 06:33 PM
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Re: Rorschach 12 issue maxi-series coming in October by King & Fornes

Originally Posted by Hokeyboy
Alan Moore is a brilliant writer but he's such a whining bore.
I never got that impression from his interviews. All of the one's I've read have been interesting and insightful, never boring.

I will say that, like Red Hood said, he comes across as bitter at times though, because he seemed to love these mainstream superheroes when HE was writing them. I also think it's hypocritical that he continues to use other people's characters in his creator-owned work. I do think he makes a good point of pointing out the differences between using them in an unofficial capacity, and the rights-holders publishing an official sequel, Twenty Thousand Leagues Under The Seas Part II: The Revenge.

Moore also lifted an Asimov story for a Mr. Majestic one-shot story. I thought that was pretty dirty. Then there's the whole issue of Watchmen and What? Superfolks? I did come across it earlier, but I forgot about it by the time I wrote Watchmen, Miracleman and Superman.

But in general, he seems to have a little more integrity than the publishers he's had dealings with. He gave his Watchmen film royalties to Dave Gibbons. He gave his V for Vendetta royalties to David Lloyd. He signed over all rights to his Miracelman scripts to Mick Anglo to do with them as he wished.
Old 07-18-20, 01:55 PM
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Re: Rorschach 12 issue maxi-series coming in October by King & Fornes

I think DC believed there would be a second season of HBO's Watchmen when this mini-series was planned. King's doing it because all of the "superstar" writers at DC yearn for an evergreen trade that sells and sells for years, generating lucrative royalties given today's contracts. It's crazy how many copies of the original Watchmen that DC sells each year through bookstores. It's practically always the #1 or #2 selling graphic novel each year.
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