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Disney's The Punisher and the Thin Blue Line Skull

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Disney's The Punisher and the Thin Blue Line Skull

Old 06-03-20, 01:33 AM
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Re: Disney's The Punisher and the Thin Blue Line Skull

IDrinkMolson
Considering that Hannity pushes the "Deep State" conspiracy that makes sense. That's even worse. Hannity is promoting thug cop behavior AND dangerous conspiracy theories related to militias and disinformation campaigns.

I read an article on The Punisher story-a panel Red Hood posted of it earlier-where the writer was incorporating commentary on how the real life police appropriating the skull logo. I guess Marvel and/or the writer felt that they needed to address the issue in 2019.

Prior to this, in the comics, has there ever been a Punisher story where the character went after and killed cops who murdered innocent black people? Treated racist police brutality the same as he does drug dealing and organized crime? Has ever targeted white supremacists who've infiltrated the police force?

Last edited by brayzie; 06-03-20 at 04:00 AM.
Old 06-03-20, 07:03 AM
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Re: Disney's The Punisher and the Thin Blue Line Skull

Originally Posted by brayzie View Post
Aren't you the guy that complains about feminist themes and "the liberal agenda" in comic books and superhero TV shows?
No I complain about feminist themes and the "liberal agenda" in the Greg Berlanti CW TV Shows. You know, the ones in which when Batwoman debuted they sent out a press release saying "We are bringing a lesbian super hero to the small screen! And we will ONLY let her be played by an openly lesbian actress!!!". Now that the show is cancelled guess what, they send out another press release saying they are going to recast and will only hire another openly lesbian actress to play the new Batwoman since her character is also gay(because I suppose straight people can't be Batwoman in this universe?). How about how they took a character who was straight in the DC Comics(Mr. Terrific) and made him gay in the TV series. Let's not forget Supergirl season 2 which randomly made a character who was portrayed as straight in season 1 gay, as well as had an immigrant woman president, talked about the "bad man" that she beat to win the presidency and had an episode titled directly after a feminist meme. Those are only a couple of examples and if you think that those shows don't reek of liberalism than you have massive blinders on.

Originally Posted by majorjoe23 View Post
Hey! He has a cousin who is a police officer in a city of at last 100,000 people!
Hey you think your a witty guy(you are not by the way) on a dead media message board! Wow what a life accomplishment you have there!

Prior to this, in the comics, has there ever been a Punisher story where the character went after and killed cops who murdered innocent black people? Treated racist police brutality the same as he does drug dealing and organized crime? Has ever targeted white supremacists who've infiltrated the police force?
The hell are you talking about? Your cherry picking random news stories from today and trying to twist them to fit your agenda here which(surprise surprise) is the same exact thing that Fredric Wortham did in Seduction of the Innocent to talk about how evil comics are. And if your curious The Punisher has killed corrupt cops before.

https://imgur.com/a/P6COX3z#JsXlkyw

Anyway don't bother to respond because this is the last thing I'm posting in DVDT. I'm done with this site because honestly, it is not fun to post here anymore and with all the negativity currently in the world coming and arguing/debating stupid stuff is just not worth it to me anymore. For those who still enjoy being here though, best of luck and enjoy.
Old 06-03-20, 09:26 AM
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Re: Disney's The Punisher and the Thin Blue Line Skull

Originally Posted by robin2099 View Post
No I complain about feminist themes and the "liberal agenda" in the Greg Berlanti CW TV Shows. You know, the ones in which when Batwoman debuted they sent out a press release saying "We are bringing a lesbian super hero to the small screen! And we will ONLY let her be played by an openly lesbian actress!!!". Now that the show is cancelled guess what, they send out another press release saying they are going to recast and will only hire another openly lesbian actress to play the new Batwoman since her character is also gay(because I suppose straight people can't be Batwoman in this universe?). How about how they took a character who was straight in the DC Comics(Mr. Terrific) and made him gay in the TV series. Let's not forget Supergirl season 2 which randomly made a character who was portrayed as straight in season 1 gay, as well as had an immigrant woman president, talked about the "bad man" that she beat to win the presidency and had an episode titled directly after a feminist meme. Those are only a couple of examples and if you think that those shows don't reek of liberalism than you have massive blinders on.
You have a problem with superhero shows portraying fictional characters as being gay, and with Supergirl having an episode title promoting feminism.

And Frederick Wertham criticized Batman and Wonder Woman because he believed their comics promoted homosexuality and feminism.

That, my friend, is irony.


The hell are you talking about? Your cherry picking random news stories from today and trying to twist them to fit your agenda here which(surprise surprise) is the same exact thing that Fredric Wortham did in Seduction of the Innocent to talk about how evil comics are.
I know you won’t respond, but maybe someone else can point out what random news stories from today I’m cherry picking.

And if your curious The Punisher has killed corrupt cops before.
I appreciate the scan, but to others who have read the issue that this page is from: is it a story about The Punisher killing racist cops? That was specifically what I was asking about, not corrupt cops in general.

Anyway don't bother to respond because this is the last thing I'm posting in DVDT. I'm done with this site because honestly, it is not fun to post here anymore and with all the negativity currently in the world coming and arguing/debating stupid stuff is just not worth it to me anymore. For those who still enjoy being here though, best of luck and enjoy.
In the slim chance you read this: Sorry to see you go. I’ve enjoyed reading your posts in the past but you’re reasoning again, is ironic, because you’re leaving due to the “negativity” of this forum yet you came into this thread being insulting. Go figure.
Old 06-03-20, 10:06 AM
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Re: Disney's The Punisher and the Thin Blue Line Skull

Originally Posted by brayzie View Post
Prior to this, in the comics, has there ever been a Punisher story where the character went after and killed cops who murdered innocent black people? Treated racist police brutality the same as he does drug dealing and organized crime? Has ever targeted white supremacists who've infiltrated the police force?
I seem to recall reading not too long ago that Marvel had a policy in place where the writers couldn't have the Punisher kill police or members of the military.

I'm not sure if that applied to the mature readers MAX series, though, I seem to recall stories where the Punisher targeted corrupt soldiers (Return to the Big Nothing being an early example).
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Old 06-26-20, 03:17 AM
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Re: Disney's The Punisher and the Thin Blue Line Skull

The Creator Of ‘The Punisher’ Wants To Reclaim The Iconic Skull From Police And Fringe Admirers

“The Punisher is representative of the failure of law and order to address the concerns of people who feel abandoned by the legal system,” Conway told Forbes, emphasizing he was speaking from his personal perspective, and adding, "It always truck me as stupid and ironic that members of the police are embracing what is fundamentally an outlaw symbol."

Gerry Conway is trying to act like his creation, The Punisher was meant to be some symbol for marginalized peoples. I NEVER got that from reading the Punisher. But that's' what he's trying to insinuate because he follows it up with this:
75%. That’s the estimated percentage of Punisher fans Conway meets at conventions who are people of color who identify with the “idea that they have been abandoned,” said Conway. “I want to deny police and militia and the military the opportunity to use this as a symbol of oppression.”



“Frank Castle would beat Sean Hannity into a pulp,” Conway said. “Castle always represented a code of honor . . . that respects the ultimate values of American society. He’s not a conspiracy nut. Even in his most fringe existence [in the 1990s and early 2000s] he had legitimate enemies. A poseur like Hannity would have infuriated him.”
Here's Conway indulging in a power fantasy that's usually reserved for children. Guy is what, in his 60s, talking like a 10 year old? Batman would totally beat up that meanie!
And really, Castle represents "a code of honor that respects the ultimate values of American society"? Brutalizing and killing people he deems criminals without due process? Well, if the Punisher is such honorable character who respects the ultimate values of American society, then it makes sense that police would be inclined to identify with him, no?

Currently, Conway is trying to make it seem like he intended the character to be this champion of "People of Color" and the oppressed. But he wasn't saying that in 2011.

THE PUNISHER IS “THE WORST IMPULSE OF THE SUPERHERO”

Originally Posted by Gerry Conway
At that time there was a cultural movement in America with the [1974 movie] Death Wish phenomena, the vigilante character The Executioner, the Dirty Harry notion – the idea of the lone outsider striking against the system – and I thought it would be interesting if a character like that was manipulated into taking action against Spider-Man.
Anybody familiar with the character during the 80s would be like, yeah, that's who the character was based on. And what was Dirty Harry? A cop who acted above the law, conducted illegal searches, tortured suspects, and didn't bother reciting the Miranda Rights warning? Movies like that were a reaction to so-called "liberal laws" that supposedly coddled criminals and hampered police.

The rules don’t apply to Harry. In fact, the restrictions placed on law enforcement by the Constitution hamper characters like him. Who needs to worry about Miranda rights and due process when you can just shoot the bad guy, utter a badass line and go home? link

And the first Death Wish features Charles Bronson killing multiple black muggers, shooting some of them in the back as they're fleeing from him while unarmed.

Harry Callahan and Paul Kersey were film characters who, through their on-screen actions, perpetuated fascist propaganda. These are the characters that inspired The Punisher, and it's no wonder that thug cops would identify with Marvel's "anti hero". He's just like San Francisco cop Dirty Harry.

The Punisher to get phased out of the Marvel Cinematic Universe by Disney, which owns the character. “My expectation is we will never see another Punisher movie or TV series,” Conway said. “Disney knows this is radioactive. They are going to let it fade away. Which to me is a shame. Maybe seeing it in this new light will inspire them to embrace it, and bring it forward.” A rebooted Punisher, Conway said, “could be Latino or black or Asian,” since a majority of the U.S. armed services are people of color.
I didn't think he got much, if any royalties from The Punisher, but maybe he is or hoping for some down the road. If this character, who's promoted like a superhero, inspires cops or reinforces the idea that fascist behavior is justified, maybe it's good that he gets phased out by Disney. Which is more important, Black Lives Matter, or this comic book character? I think there's a problem when people put so much effort into saving the profitability of a fictional character rather than accepting the fact that the character was problematic to begin with.

Last edited by brayzie; 06-26-20 at 05:55 PM.
Old 06-27-20, 05:28 PM
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Re: Disney's The Punisher and the Thin Blue Line Skull

I hope that Gerry Conway isn't getting royalties for "creating" the Punisher. If he did, he should forward them to Don Pendleton.

Brazie, I have one problem with your argument. Disney owns ABC television, ESPN, A&E, Hulu, Touchstone Pictures, and National Geographic magazine. Disney was outbid for Sky by Comcast. Calling them a company whose audience is children, because that is a portion of their businesses, is disingenuous.
Old 06-27-20, 06:04 PM
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Re: Disney's The Punisher and the Thin Blue Line Skull

Originally Posted by Nick Danger View Post
Brazie, I have one problem with your argument. Disney owns ABC television, ESPN, A&E, Hulu, Touchstone Pictures, and National Geographic magazine. Disney was outbid for Sky by Comcast. Calling them a company whose audience is children, because that is a portion of their businesses, is disingenuous.
Yeah, and Disney being the monolithic gatekeepers of popular culture is not a concept that I'm particularly keen on. Besides, it's not like these sorts of issues go away because there's no more Punisher tv show or action figures. The Punisher didn't create this problem and if the skull is somehow wiped out of existence there will just be some other iconography to glom onto. I couldn't care less about the Punisher, and the character disappearing would be no skin off my back, but what are really solving here?
Old 06-28-20, 12:15 PM
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Re: Disney's The Punisher and the Thin Blue Line Skull

Originally Posted by Nick Danger View Post
Brazie, I have one problem with your argument. Disney owns ABC television, ESPN, A&E, Hulu, Touchstone Pictures, and National Geographic magazine. Disney was outbid for Sky by Comcast.
Which I acknowledged in post #14:

But realistically I'd settle for Disney divorcing the character from the Marvel Universe completely. Sell the character without the "Marvel" logo and brand. Publish the comic under a completely separate sub-label and have no interactions with the regular Marvel Universe. Disney did something similar when they wanted to make films for mature audiences. They had Hollywood Pictures, and Touchtone Pictures film divisions to separate certain films from the Disney brand.

Calling them a company whose audience is children, because that is a portion of their businesses, is disingenuous.
“Disney” is clearly aimed at kids, and Marvel has been added to the Disney brand.




Get a MARVEL-ous behind-the-scenes look at Disneyland’s Avengers Campus

Who’s being disingenuous, Kay?

Let me know when they add “Black Swan” to Disney+.

Last edited by brayzie; 06-28-20 at 12:24 PM.
Old 06-28-20, 12:39 PM
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Re: Disney's The Punisher and the Thin Blue Line Skull

Originally Posted by rocket1312 View Post
Yeah, and Disney being the monolithic gatekeepers of popular culture is not a concept that I'm particularly keen on.
I don’t remember anyone implying that in this thread.

Besides, it's not like these sorts of issues go away because there's no more Punisher tv show or action figures. The Punisher didn't create this problem and if the skull is somehow wiped out of existence there will just be some other iconography to glom onto. I couldn't care less about the Punisher, and the character disappearing would be no skin off my back, but what are really solving here?
By that logic, racist depictions of black characters like Ebony White should never have been phased out because, hey, it didn’t make the issue of racism and white supremacy go away.




Last edited by brayzie; 06-28-20 at 12:52 PM.
Old 06-28-20, 01:12 PM
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Re: Disney's The Punisher and the Thin Blue Line Skull

Superman was originally conceived as a costume vigilante to punished bad guys. Jerry Seigel was inspired to create the character afters his father's store was robbed at gunpoint. Why stop with the Punisher? Why not see to it that all costume vigilantes are banned (superheros)? Once you start descending down this Orwellian worm hole, there is no stopping until you reach rock bottom. Like others have said better than I can, censorship solves nothing.

Old 06-28-20, 01:32 PM
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Re: Disney's The Punisher and the Thin Blue Line Skull

Originally Posted by ddrknghtrtns View Post
Superman was originally conceived as a costume vigilante to punished bad guys...

...Why not see to it that all costume vigilantes are banned (superheros)?
Superman never killed at that time, and never used guns.

Batman used guns, and originally killed, and that was quickly phased out in favor of a no-guns and no-killing policy. I think it worked out pretty well for the character. And in doing so, the superhero genre still managed to survive and even thrive.

Once you start descending down this Orwellian worm hole, there is no stopping until you reach rock bottom.
Orwellian: It denotes an attitude and a brutal policy of draconian control by propaganda, surveillance, disinformation, denial of truth(doublethink), and manipulation of the past, including the "unperson"—a person whose past existence is expunged from the public record and memory, practiced by modern repressive governments.

I don’t see how this applies to the discussion being had.

Like others have said better than I can, censorship solves nothing.
If the government or some controlling body was banning or threatening to ban The Punisher, I could see your point.

Old 06-28-20, 02:05 PM
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Re: Disney's The Punisher and the Thin Blue Line Skull

Originally Posted by brayzie View Post
Superman never killed at that time, and never used guns.

Batman used guns, and originally killed, and that was quickly phased out in favor of a no-guns and no-killing policy. I think it worked out pretty well for the character. And in doing so, the superhero genre still managed to survive and even thrive.


Orwellian: It denotes an attitude and a brutal policy of draconian control by propaganda, surveillance, disinformation, denial of truth(doublethink), and manipulation of the past, including the "unperson"—a person whose past existence is expunged from the public record and memory, practiced by modern repressive governments.

I don’t see how this applies to the discussion being had.



If the government or some controlling body was banning or threatening to ban The Punisher, I could see your point.
And if the same people who were using Punisher's skull, was instead using Batman's or Superman's emblem, would you want to see both Batman and Superman banned? Have you ever read a Punisher comic? If you have, you would know that the majority of his villains are oily hair Italian mafia variety. And just like all other comic book hero's, he works outside the law.

Having ideas and concepts you are not comfortable with could end up thrusting this world into another dark age. I just wish more people would think of the possible ramifications before jumping on the bandwagon and shouting censorship.
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Old 06-28-20, 03:40 PM
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Re: Disney's The Punisher and the Thin Blue Line Skull

Originally Posted by brayzie View Post
I don’t remember anyone implying that in this thread.
But you did imply that a company like Disney shouldn't be promoting a character like the Punisher. At the rate Disney acquires ip, there's bound to be an awful lot of characters and concepts that will just go away because they don't fit under some nebulous Disney brand identity.

By that logic, racist depictions of black characters like Ebony White should never have been phased out because, hey, it didn’t make the issue of racism and white supremacy go away.
I don't find anything inherently racist or problematic about the character of the Punisher. Perhaps there are stories involving the Punisher that skew that way, but that's not the character itself. It's all in how he's written. I get how portraying him as a "hero" could be considered a problem, and the character is certainly inappropriate in certain venues, but I'm tired of people's inability to engage with these sorts of issues and instead just rush to "delete" them from culture.
Old 06-28-20, 07:31 PM
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Re: Disney's The Punisher and the Thin Blue Line Skull

Originally Posted by rocket1312 View Post
But you did imply that a company like Disney shouldn't be promoting a character like the Punisher. At the rate Disney acquires ip, there's bound to be an awful lot of characters and concepts that will just go away because they don't fit under some nebulous Disney brand identity.
The Punisher was already a well-known superhero character prior to the Disney purchase, part of Marvel Comics,
which itself was aimed at kids. Disney, the mass media company, purchased Searchlight Pictures, but that doesn’t mean that films like Black Swan, Shame, or Skin are promoted as part of the Disney or Marvel brand.


I don't find anything inherently racist or problematic about the character of the Punisher. Perhaps there are stories involving the Punisher that skew that way, but that's not the character itself. It's all in how he's written. I get how portraying him as a "hero" could be considered a problem, and the character is certainly inappropriate in certain venues, but I'm tired of people's inability to engage with these sorts of issues and instead just rush to "delete" them from culture.
The point you were trying to argue was that getting rid of a problematic character won’t make the problem go away. So using your own logic, there was no reason for Will Eisner to phase out Ebony White and replace him, because racism persisted anyways. Will Eisner didn’t create the problem, racism existed before the character was even published.

And as far as I know, there’s no rush to “delete” The Punisher. His comics are still being published right? Not to mention, most of my suggestions don’t even involve getting rid of the character.

Last edited by brayzie; 06-29-20 at 03:51 AM.
Old 07-04-20, 01:51 PM
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Re: Disney's The Punisher and the Thin Blue Line Skull

Personally, I approve of the Punisher's methods.

Too many guilty people go unpunished and commit further crimes against innocent people. The Punisher doesn't give them a chance to victimize more people. He puts and end to bad people who would likely continue hurting or killing people because there isn't enough evidence to catch or convict them. He catches them in the act and punishes them. I'm fine with that.

He makes for a fascinating character. I'm not a huge fan (I've found that he's a character who is best suited for more infrequent appearances - less is more), but I like the character, overall. (Some writers & artists get him right, others don't.)

It just seems like people are trying to make this fictional character out to be more than what he is.

And there will ALWAYS be a place in storytelling for a person (doesn't have to be a man) who actively seeks both vengeance and vigilante justice at the same time. (I particularly liked Peppermint...)
Old 07-06-20, 09:07 PM
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Re: Disney's The Punisher and the Thin Blue Line Skull

Originally Posted by B5Erik View Post
Personally, I approve of the Punisher's methods.

Too many guilty people go unpunished and commit further crimes against innocent people. The Punisher doesn't give them a chance to victimize more people. He puts and end to bad people who would likely continue hurting or killing people because there isn't enough evidence to catch or convict them. He catches them in the act and punishes them. I'm fine with that.
Not to single you out, but that's the problem. People approve of the methods of a fictional character who breaks the law, and acts the same as crooked law enforcement officers. I'm sure these "Thin Blue Line" cops also approve of his methods, which is why they took his logo as their own.

He makes for a fascinating character. I'm not a huge fan (I've found that he's a character who is best suited for more infrequent appearances - less is more), but I like the character, overall. (Some writers & artists get him right, others don't.)
I'm not a big fan either, but I liked what little I've seen of the first mini-series illustrated by Mike Zeck. And the concept itself is interesting. But I don't think that it should be marketed in a kid's line like Marvel, where he interacts with characters like Spider-man, and promoted as a "super hero."

It just seems like people are trying to make this fictional character out to be more than what he is.
Exactly. Fans of comics are actually approving of the characters methods, instead of realizing that he's NOT a good or moral character, and police officers are so enamored with the character that they're making him more than he and turning him into a role model of some kind.

And there will ALWAYS be a place in storytelling for a person (doesn't have to be a man) who actively seeks both vengeance and vigilante justice at the same time. (I particularly liked Peppermint...)
I agree. I'm a big fan of James O'Barr's The Crow. That character, from the start I believe, marketed as a "Mature Audiences" comic book, and the later film was R-rated. There was no attempt at the time, to make a Saturday morning cartoon of him, no action figures, no intermingling with kid's characters. So the the public had an opportunity to read and watch the material, but the way it was marketed was somewhat responsible. That may have changed when the character was licensed to Image Comics, but prior to that, it was a decent balance of commercial art with social responsibility.


Old 07-06-20, 11:03 PM
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Re: Disney's The Punisher and the Thin Blue Line Skull

Originally Posted by brayzie View Post
Not to single you out, but that's the problem. People approve of the methods of a fictional character who breaks the law, and acts the same as crooked law enforcement officers. I'm sure these "Thin Blue Line" cops also approve of his methods, which is why they took his logo as their own.
No, he isn't the same as crooked law enforcement officers. He doesn't hurt innocent people. He only hurts the guilty - those who prey on innocent people.

I kind of wish there were really people like the Punisher out there who only hurt the guilty. Too many guilty people get away with victimizing and even killing innocent people.

Hell, I enjoyed watching Vic Mackey. He went WAY too far, but I understood how he got there. He was tired of seeing thugs and monsters repeatedly get away with horrible crimes, so he was willing to cut corners and bend the law to get the right outcome. Along the way he lost the plot and adopted their mindset, which is why his world came crashing down (taking down several others with him).

But a lot of people are tired of a legal system that protects the guilty more than it protects the innocent.

And that's why The Punisher resonates.
Old 07-07-20, 12:56 AM
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Re: Disney's The Punisher and the Thin Blue Line Skull

This was the sign I made for the local BLM protest 3 or 4 weeks ago. I had to explain it to a few people, but those that got it liked it.



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Old 07-07-20, 02:13 AM
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Re: Disney's The Punisher and the Thin Blue Line Skull

Originally Posted by B5Erik View Post

Hell, I enjoyed watching Vic Mackey. He went WAY too far, but I understood how he got there. He was tired of seeing thugs and monsters repeatedly get away with horrible crimes, so he was willing to cut corners and bend the law to get the right outcome.
I've never watched The Shield but I got this from Wikipedia:

Vic cornered a teenaged murder witness and demanded to know who murdered two police officers. Instead, the teenager refused to violate the neighborhood code of silence. Enraged, Vic pulled out a bag of crack cocaine and snarled, "Fine! You're not a witness, then you're an arrest! And this is just about enough to make you a trafficker!" Horrified, the teenager said, 'You can't do that, man!" Vic grinned sadistically and said, "What, arrest drug dealers? You just made my quota for the week!" The teenager immediately revealed what he knew about the cop killing he had witnessed, provided that Vic removed the drugs from his pocket.
Holy shit, that sounds too typical of real life corrupt cops who plant drugs on people they stop or pull over. And the above happened in the first season.

Along the way he lost the plot and adopted their mindset, which is why his world came crashing down (taking down several others with him).
That's the point, "cutting corners" in that fashion is illegal. You do that as someone with power and authority, no kidding you're going to end up brutalizing and killing innocent people.


But a lot of people are tired of a legal system that protects the guilty more than it protects the innocent.

And that's why The Punisher resonates.
I'm not questioning that. But if you're comparing The Punisher to Vic Mackey, a character that appears in a TV-MA rated show, then that seems that the character should be marketed specifically towards adults, and not share a universe with Spider-man and Captain America or appear in children's cartoons. Do you see what I'm saying?

I do get the why characters like that resonate with the audience. It's satisfying for people who have felt victimized or been victimized by criminals to watch fictional criminals get their comeuppance.
While the Death Wish films are a disgustingly exploitive film series, I can see why people enjoy Paul Kersey killing murderers, rapists and would-be rapists. But he also murders muggers too. And while watching the film we still cheer at that, does mugging someone equal the death penalty? Seeing stuff like that helps to dehumanize all types of people who engage or have engaged in criminal behavior. The murderer, rapist, and purse snatcher are all equally worthy of death according to the message of the film.

Dirty Harry (1971), Death Wish (1974), Taxi Driver (1976) are a trend of that vigilante theme, but I'm sure there's way more films that apply. Those are just the one's off the top of my head.

The Dark Knight Returns was definitely inspired by these films. The teenage gang members in that series are practically inhuman, literally calling themselves "mutants." And that mini-series is one of my favorite superhero stories.

Watchmen was a little more critical of the vigilante trope but still indulged in "bad ass" revenge scenarios, like when Alan Moore lifted the famous scene from Mad Max for Rorshach's character.

I think when you create and market a character to impressionable kids, and apparently, an impressionable public, you need to to consider the effect it's going to have on society. Which is why, despite mainstream superheroes having their own problematic aspects to their characters, they usually all abided by a code that valued all life. It's a healthier attitude to instill than the murder revenge fantasies of Frank Castle, Paul Kersey, and Vic Mackey.

Spoilers from Batman: Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader:
Spoiler:



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Old 07-07-20, 09:33 AM
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Re: Disney's The Punisher and the Thin Blue Line Skull

Originally Posted by Tom Banjo View Post
This was the sign I made for the local BLM protest 3 or 4 weeks ago. I had to explain it to a few people, but those that got it liked it.
Very close to mine. I used the same Punisher/cops exchange to piggyback off of for my sign. Your skull logo is definitely better than mine though. I forgot the shape as I was making it
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Old 07-07-20, 10:32 AM
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Re: Disney's The Punisher and the Thin Blue Line Skull

Originally Posted by brayzie View Post
I've never watched The Shield...
You really should. It's a great show.

I'm not questioning that. But if you're comparing The Punisher to Vic Mackey...
I am, and I'm not. I'm saying that Vic is someone who went too far. He ended up hurting innocent people. The Punisher doesn't. Frank Castle makes sure that innocent people aren't hurt.

I do get the why characters like that resonate with the audience. It's satisfying for people who have felt victimized or been victimized by criminals to watch fictional criminals get their comeuppance.

While the Death Wish films are a disgustingly exploitive film series, I can see why people enjoy Paul Kersey killing murderers, rapists and would-be rapists. But he also murders muggers too. And while watching the film we still cheer at that, does mugging someone equal the death penalty? Seeing stuff like that helps to dehumanize all types of people who engage or have engaged in criminal behavior. The murderer, rapist, and purse snatcher are all equally worthy of death according to the message of the film.
But The Punisher doesn't kill muggers. So that's a bad comparison.

The Punisher punishes those who may otherwise get away with heinous crimes.

I think when you create and market a character to impressionable kids, and apparently, an impressionable public, you need to to consider the effect it's going to have on society. Which is why, despite mainstream superheroes having their own problematic aspects to their characters, they usually all abided by a code that valued all life. It's a healthier attitude to instill than the murder revenge fantasies of Frank Castle, Paul Kersey, and Vic Mackey.
The Punisher was never marketed to small kids. By the time The Punisher came around the average age of the readers of The Amazing Spider-Man was probably 18. Marvel Comics grew up with their readers.

You didn't see The Punisher in Spidey Super Stories, which was the title aimed at small, impressionable kids. And The Punisher was never presented as someone to emulate.

Now, in the late 80's and through the 90's their handling of The Punisher changed slightly, but by that point the whole comics industry had changed drastically, so that's no big surprise.

Again, in the real world the legal system protects the guilty more than it protects the innocent. In the real world a sickeningly high percentage of rapes and murders go unsolved (and the perpetrators of those crimes remain free to victimize more people). As long as those things remain true there will be a place for The Punisher, even in the pages of comics that feature Spider-Man and Captain America.
Old 07-07-20, 10:53 AM
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Re: Disney's The Punisher and the Thin Blue Line Skull

The average age of Spider-man fans was 18 in 1974? Really?
Old 07-07-20, 11:01 AM
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Re: Disney's The Punisher and the Thin Blue Line Skull

Originally Posted by fujishig View Post
The average age of Spider-man fans was 18 in 1974? Really?
Really.

Spider-Man first appeared in, what? 1963? By 1974 you had college kids and young adults reading The Amazing Spider-Man and other Marvel titles. The comics grew up as the original readers did.

You should go back and re-read some of those early 70's comics. It wasn't just kids' stuff.
Old 07-07-20, 11:09 AM
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Re: Disney's The Punisher and the Thin Blue Line Skull

Originally Posted by B5Erik View Post
Really.

Spider-Man first appeared in, what? 1963? By 1974 you had college kids and young adults reading The Amazing Spider-Man and other Marvel titles. The comics grew up as the original readers did.

You should go back and re-read some of those early 70's comics. It wasn't just kids' stuff.
My point was when I was a kid (I wasn't born yet when this issue came out) I read comics, so I didn't realize that by the time I was reading comics, average age was probably in the 20s? That doesn't seem right. I'm not saying they were targeted for kids, but they were cheap enough that kids still read them.
Old 07-07-20, 11:27 AM
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Re: Disney's The Punisher and the Thin Blue Line Skull

Originally Posted by fujishig View Post
My point was when I was a kid (I wasn't born yet when this issue came out) I read comics, so I didn't realize that by the time I was reading comics, average age was probably in the 20s? That doesn't seem right. I'm not saying they were targeted for kids, but they were cheap enough that kids still read them.
They did. But kids weren't the target audience anymore. For Marvel, they hadn't been since the early 60's. DC started writing some titles for late teens/early 20's audiences in the early 70's.

Marvel was targeting the 13-22 year old age range in the early/mid 70's. Stan was doing SRO presentations/speeches at colleges in the early/mid 70's.

Just because kids read them doesn't mean that they were the intended audience. They weren't.

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