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Coronavirus: An "Extinction Level Event" for the Direct Market

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Coronavirus: An "Extinction Level Event" for the Direct Market

Old 07-24-20, 09:53 AM
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Re: Coronavirus: An "Extinction Level Event" for the Direct Market

This chart give a little more perspective of the life of comic books outside the direct market. As you can see, the big two are Scholastics and VIZ, not DC and Marvel.

Old 07-24-20, 10:37 AM
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Re: Coronavirus: An "Extinction Level Event" for the Direct Market

Originally Posted by VHS?
I should be preparing for SDCC today
I'll check out the @HOME stuff but definitely not going to be the same. SDCC is like Summer Camp for me. Getting together with friends during that once a year thing. Catching up.
But it also means getting to walk 3,000+ miles in all of downtown and the convention center. I even bought some really good walking shoes for this year, back in December.
What REALLY sucks, is rather than just fighting the attendees for exclusives, now having to fight the entire world and BOTS.
On the other hand, I love that the panels are just up to view whenever you want. The quality of the panels is obviously less because of the distancing, but the availability seems awesome to me.

Originally Posted by Red Hood
This chart give a little more perspective of the life of comic books outside the direct market. As you can see, the big two are Scholastics and VIZ, not DC and Marvel.

https://twitter.com/johannadc/status...702671360?s=20
Yeah, manga is not as big as it was in it's heyday here but Viz still has My Hero Academia and others that do blockbuster level numbers. I really wonder how their shonen jump digital subscription is doing, because it is, to me, an insane deal.

And Scholastic, I believe, has all the Telemeiger books, Dog Man, etc. While not traditional comic books that's what kids are reading. And then you have more traditional stuff like Amulet.

I always like those bookscan articles, I'll have to check out the latest Tilting at Windmills.

As a side note, my daughter loves reading, but she has never been able to get into traditional superhero comics, even stuff like Super Hero Girls when she was younger. She absolutely loves My Hero Academia, Fruits Basket (not Viz, I know), Black Clover, Promised Neverland, etc., and reads Shonen Jump every week on my subscription. My son loves Dragon Ball and I'm getting him into One Piece, but (to my chagrin) has largely grown out of superheroes and was never into comics. Both love Dog Man and Captain Underpants. And I have shelves and shelves of omniboo and the like and just no interest (when they're older I'm sure I can get them to read stuff like Saga and Sandman)
Old 07-29-20, 07:46 PM
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Re: Coronavirus: An "Extinction Level Event" for the Direct Market

I just went back to the comic books store for the first time after the pandemic in order to support them. I'm not too much into American comic books these days but my local shop is run by a good guy and he always gave small discounts to regulars. I'm not buying any Marvel or DC stuff, but I got a new Image book by Matt Fraction and The Dodsons that looks amazing. There was also some indie stuff that was on thick cardboard stock and smaller than regular-sized comics. Maybe it's like the equivalent of underground comix from the 70s and 80s? I don't know but I'll go back for them later.

The kids in my family just can't get into superhero comics despite liking the MCU to some degree. I think the MCU films are more a cultural thing at this point than genuine fan. Even the older women in my family who never cracked open a comic book in their life and watch telenovelas almost exclusively, make it a point to see the next big Marvel film.

Anyway, my younger family members, I think they view American superhero comics as being for their parents, something for the older generation, while they consider manga and anime as part of "their" generation. Dragon Ball Z must be old to them because they have no inclination to get into it, but they are HUGE fans of Naruto, Hunter x Hunter, Hero Academia, and some other stuff. And yeah, they grew up on Captain Underpants.

The great thing about manga is that there's always new stuff coming out in the Shonen anthologies. Superhero comics is really stale if you're on the outside looking in. It's the same 60-80 year old characters.
Old 07-29-20, 07:55 PM
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Re: Coronavirus: An "Extinction Level Event" for the Direct Market

Shonen, at least the famed Shonen Jump, is coming to a crossroads, though. Right now, I think there are only two series older than My Hero Academia (which came out in 2014) and one of them, Hunter x Hunter goes on hiatus all the time. Promised Neverland, Haikyu, and Kimetsu No Yaiba all ended and I think they are kind of desperate for the next Naruto. Though as long as One Piece is around I guess they're not too desperate.

It is so much easier to get into something that is, for the most part, self contained and doesn't require intimate knowledge of 30 years of back history or in jokes (or if it does you just read it chronologically). Having said that, the working conditions for manga authors are brutal, so I don't think that kind of just constant grind would work here.
Old 07-29-20, 09:09 PM
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Re: Coronavirus: An "Extinction Level Event" for the Direct Market

Originally Posted by fujishig

It is so much easier to get into something that is, for the most part, self contained and doesn't require intimate knowledge of 30 years of back history or in jokes (or if it does you just read it chronologically). Having said that, the working conditions for manga authors are brutal, so I don't think that kind of just constant grind would work here.
I've heard that too, about the workload for manga creators. The more established ones I assume get assistants for things like backgrounds. I've heard that some mangas go on hiatus for quite long periods of time like Berserk. Maybe that's the very rough equivalent of American superhero publishers doing reprint fill-ins and pushing bucks back a month or two?

Old 07-30-20, 01:17 PM
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Re: Coronavirus: An "Extinction Level Event" for the Direct Market

Originally Posted by brayzie
I just went back to the comic books store for the first time after the pandemic in order to support them. I'm not too much into American comic books these days but my local shop is run by a good guy and he always gave small discounts to regulars. I'm not buying any Marvel or DC stuff, but I got a new Image book by Matt Fraction and The Dodsons that looks amazing. There was also some indie stuff that was on thick cardboard stock and smaller than regular-sized comics. Maybe it's like the equivalent of underground comix from the 70s and 80s? I don't know but I'll go back for them later.

The kids in my family just can't get into superhero comics despite liking the MCU to some degree. I think the MCU films are more a cultural thing at this point than genuine fan. Even the older women in my family who never cracked open a comic book in their life and watch telenovelas almost exclusively, make it a point to see the next big Marvel film.

Anyway, my younger family members, I think they view American superhero comics as being for their parents, something for the older generation, while they consider manga and anime as part of "their" generation. Dragon Ball Z must be old to them because they have no inclination to get into it, but they are HUGE fans of Naruto, Hunter x Hunter, Hero Academia, and some other stuff. And yeah, they grew up on Captain Underpants.

The great thing about manga is that there's always new stuff coming out in the Shonen anthologies. Superhero comics is really stale if you're on the outside looking in. It's the same 60-80 year old characters.
I think you are correct about the Marvel movies. There are so few shared cultural entertainment events left in America now that television has fractured into a thousand streaming channels, people substitute Marvel movies as something everyone can talk about.
Old 07-30-20, 01:25 PM
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Re: Coronavirus: An "Extinction Level Event" for the Direct Market

Originally Posted by brayzie
I've heard that too, about the workload for manga creators. The more established ones I assume get assistants for things like backgrounds. I've heard that some mangas go on hiatus for quite long periods of time like Berserk. Maybe that's the very rough equivalent of American superhero publishers doing reprint fill-ins and pushing bucks back a month or two?
There are actually very few American/Western comic book artists that can do a book every single month without lead time, and so a decent editor will plan fill in issues or rotate artists from story to story or whatever. And usually that's just the art. The manga artist may work with a writer but if they don't, they have to come up with the storyboards, get approval from an editor, draw the drafts, etc., every single week (if they're weekly). They have helpers to do the backgrounds and maybe some other things but for the most part it's their singular vision, so there's no fill ins or breaks. Add into this that you have to maintain your popularity, so while you can plan things ahead, you can't really get ahead in drawing things (if you even had the time) because the editor might come back and say that you have to change direction for next week or risk cancellation. It's gotta be overwhelmingly stressful, and a lot of manga artists suffer from health problems over time because of it.

Think about that, every single week you have to write and draw 20+ pages.
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Old 07-30-20, 04:40 PM
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Re: Coronavirus: An "Extinction Level Event" for the Direct Market

Originally Posted by PhantomStranger
I think you are correct about the Marvel movies. There are so few shared cultural entertainment events left in America now that television has fractured into a thousand streaming channels, people substitute Marvel movies as something everyone can talk about.
I didn't take into consideration the streaming channels. That's a good point.

Originally Posted by fujishig
There are actually very few American/Western comic book artists that can do a book every single month without lead time, and so a decent editor will plan fill in issues or rotate artists from story to story or whatever. And usually that's just the art.
Really? I just assumed that was the case with the "hot" artists who have a much denser, detailed style. People like Jim Lee, Frank Quitely, Ethan Van Sciver, etc. But I thought that other artists with more "economical" styles would be okay. For example, Sal Buscema gets a lot of shit, but I thought his work on Spectacular Spider-man was very good. Stylized and distinctive, but also to-the-point visually, no crazy flash from what I remember. I thought Norm Breyfogle was also someone who was good at keeping a monthly schedule. Those are only two out of how many, but that was what I thought was the norm.

The manga artist may work with a writer but if they don't, they have to come up with the storyboards, get approval from an editor, draw the drafts, etc., every single week (if they're weekly). They have helpers to do the backgrounds and maybe some other things but for the most part it's their singular vision, so there's no fill ins or breaks. Add into this that you have to maintain your popularity, so while you can plan things ahead, you can't really get ahead in drawing things (if you even had the time) because the editor might come back and say that you have to change direction for next week or risk cancellation. It's gotta be overwhelmingly stressful, and a lot of manga artists suffer from health problems over time because of it.

Think about that, every single week you have to write and draw 20+ pages.
You're an AoT fan so I just had it pointed out to me that after more than a decade Isayama JUST took off a month from the manga. That's crazy that this whole time he never took a break? I can't imagine having to write AND draw something every single month for that long.
Old 07-30-20, 04:49 PM
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Re: Coronavirus: An "Extinction Level Event" for the Direct Market

Originally Posted by brayzie
I didn't take into consideration the streaming channels. That's a good point.


Really? I just assumed that was the case with the "hot" artists who have a much denser, detailed style. People like Jim Lee, Frank Quitely, Ethan Van Sciver, etc. But I thought that other artists with more "economical" styles would be okay. For example, Sal Buscema gets a lot of shit, but I thought his work on Spectacular Spider-man was very good. Stylized and distinctive, but also to-the-point visually, no crazy flash from what I remember. I thought Norm Breyfogle was also someone who was good at keeping a monthly schedule. Those are only two out of how many, but that was what I thought was the norm.

You're an AoT fan so I just had it pointed out to me that after more than a decade Isayama JUST took off a month from the manga. That's crazy that this whole time he never took a break? I can't imagine having to write AND draw something every single month for that long.
I linked an article a few times in this forum with an interview from an old school artist about McFarlane and the new school (Image guys) artists coming into Marvel, and the big complaint was that they just put too much detail in their drawings. The claim was the old guys could do it if they wanted but they were more, as you say, economical so that they could draw even multiple books a month, but the new guys were putting all these little details (those webs!) into each page, for the same page rate, mind you. (there were obviously exceptions, like George Perez).

It's not just the flashy guys, I think you'll be hard pressed to find a modern artist who's work is not something minimalist that can stay on a book for a long time without taking an issue off here or there (and again, a lot of times knowing this problem the publishers give them a large lead time that slowly diminishes over time).
Old 07-30-20, 06:15 PM
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Re: Coronavirus: An "Extinction Level Event" for the Direct Market

Originally Posted by fujishig
I linked an article a few times in this forum with an interview from an old school artist about McFarlane and the new school (Image guys) artists coming into Marvel, and the big complaint was that they just put too much detail in their drawings. The claim was the old guys could do it if they wanted but they were more, as you say, economical so that they could draw even multiple books a month, but the new guys were putting all these little details (those webs!) into each page, for the same page rate, mind you. (there were obviously exceptions, like George Perez).
I think I remember that article. I can see now why there was such a stark contrast to McFarlane and Lee's work and the generation of artists before them.

It's not just the flashy guys, I think you'll be hard pressed to find a modern artist who's work is not something minimalist that can stay on a book for a long time without taking an issue off here or there (and again, a lot of times knowing this problem the publishers give them a large lead time that slowly diminishes over time).
That's true. The backgrounds alone would be a pain. I thought initially that manga had an edge of this because the artwork was far more stylized and even minimalist at times. Detective Conan/Case Closed for example seems a little more simplified. But since I've been getting into more manga lately, hell no, a lot of those mangas are just as detailed if not more so at times.

I remember DC created the All-Star line for that. Two months for every issue to accommodate "all-star" artists, and they still couldn't do it. All-Star Superman had delays, and we all know what happened with All-Star Batman.
Old 08-05-20, 12:17 PM
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Re: Coronavirus: An "Extinction Level Event" for the Direct Market

I've seen too many posts today of a lot of LCS around the US selling Dark Knights Metal: Legends of the Dark Knight One-Shot for at least $20 out of the gate on release day (which was Tuesday for this book). This practice needs to stop and the LCS that do this need to die. This does nothing more than piss off customers in general, turning them away from the hobby because of greedy assholes. I understand selling the variant at higher prices but the regular book should be for cover price or less on release day.
Old 08-05-20, 12:40 PM
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Re: Coronavirus: An "Extinction Level Event" for the Direct Market

(From a completely irrational conspiratorial perspective).

At times I wonder if this was entirely done deliberately, to bring down Diamond and the big comic retailers. Especially if the upper management calling the shots at Warner, are folks who don't care at all about new comic books.
Old 08-05-20, 01:07 PM
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Re: Coronavirus: An "Extinction Level Event" for the Direct Market

Originally Posted by Red Hood
I've seen too many posts today of a lot of LCS around the US selling Dark Knights Metal: Legends of the Dark Knight One-Shot for at least $20 out of the gate on release day (which was Tuesday for this book). This practice needs to stop and the LCS that do this need to die. This does nothing more than piss off customers in general, turning them away from the hobby because of greedy assholes. I understand selling the variant at higher prices but the regular book should be for cover price or less on release day.
I don't mind markup on certain books if the LCS keeps enough for regular customers at cover price... I realize that that probably seems like it's against new readers (and I'm not a regular LCS goer so I'd be excluded too) but the alternative is speculators coming in and buying up the issues and making the profits themselves.
Old 08-05-20, 01:45 PM
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Re: Coronavirus: An "Extinction Level Event" for the Direct Market

Originally Posted by fujishig
I don't mind markup on certain books if the LCS keeps enough for regular customers at cover price... I realize that that probably seems like it's against new readers (and I'm not a regular LCS goer so I'd be excluded too) but the alternative is speculators coming in and buying up the issues and making the profits themselves.
The simple solution for this is to limit them at 1 per person for the first 48 hours. After that, the LCS can do whatever they want. But not only I saw anecdotes of stores raising the price for the ones on the shelves, I seen horror stories of subscribers for this particular book, which they pre-ordered in advance, getting the shaft and having the book priced for a markup. Why do that? So the person turns around and don't come back ever again?

I saw other stories regarding the variant. Early on, the 1:25 variant for this book sold for ebay and in stores for $15-$30 on pre-orders. Well, many of those who sold them on ebay before release date or stores that had already committed the book to someone who paid a markup for pre-ordering it have had their orders cancel. Then these sellers have turned around and listed it again on ebay or at the LCS itself for this week's market price which is around $300+. This does nothing other than to drive away customers.
Old 08-05-20, 01:54 PM
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Re: Coronavirus: An "Extinction Level Event" for the Direct Market

Originally Posted by Red Hood
The simple solution for this is to limit them at 1 per person for the first 48 hours. After that, the LCS can do whatever they want. But not only I saw anecdotes of stores raising the price for the ones on the shelves, I seen horror stories of subscribers for this particular book, which they pre-ordered in advance, getting the shaft and having the book priced for a markup. Why do that? So the person turns around and don't come back ever again?
Right, if you preordered, or heck if you're a regular customer and want a copy, you should accommodate them as an LCS. I thought of the one per person thing but there are oddballs these days who bring like a bunch of people just to buy up stuff... at least marking it up for non regular customers probably prevents people wiping them out before the regular customers can come in.
Old 08-05-20, 01:55 PM
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Re: Coronavirus: An "Extinction Level Event" for the Direct Market

I can tell you from experience that one of my regular customers when I had a store was about to stop coming in when one of my idiot partners tried to do something similar with a rare variant. In November of 2016, we were part of Local Comic Shop day. One of the books was All-New Wolverine #1 variant by artist Bengal an was limited to 500 copies worldwide. We were getting 3 of 10 copies we ordered since the book was allocated and one of our regular customers, who spent over $100 on every visit of his, asked for a copy. Not only was he the first one to ask, but one of the rules at the time for Local Comic Shop Day was that the books had to be sold at cover price for at least a month. They couldn't be sold on ebay after 30 days from LCSD by any of the participating retailers. Of course, some people broke the rules by selling them online under new or personal accounts instead of business ones. Well, we had agreed that we were going to sell the book to this regular for cover price. I go out of town for Thanksgiving (LCSD was the Saturday after Thanksgiving) and when I come back one my employees tells me that the idiots business partner put one of the books on ebay under our store account and when our regular came to pick the book, he was told that it was $300. Of course, my customer blew a gasket and said he wasn't going to come back. I had to call this customer and apologize profusely for what happened and gave the book to him for free to make it up for my bonehead partner. Lesson here is that getting $300 today was going to cost us easily around at least $5000 a year from one customer. Was the markup worth it? Of course not.
Old 08-05-20, 06:18 PM
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Re: Coronavirus: An "Extinction Level Event" for the Direct Market

Originally Posted by Red Hood
I go out of town for Thanksgiving (LCSD was the Saturday after Thanksgiving) and when I come back one my employees tells me that the idiots business partner put one of the books on ebay under our store account and when our regular came to pick the book, he was told that it was $300. Of course, my customer blew a gasket and said he wasn't going to come back. I had to call this customer and apologize profusely for what happened and gave the book to him for free to make it up for my bonehead partner. Lesson here is that getting $300 today was going to cost us easily around at least $5000 a year from one customer. Was the markup worth it? Of course not.
(More generally).

Sounds like you have a good business sense in recognizing your prime customers.

In other niches unrelated to comic books where I was a prime or high volume customer, I have abandoned local small business retailers over dumb stuff similar to this. Not surprisingly, many of them went out of business a few years later. (ie. Their pattern of customer complaints eventually led to them having zero high volume/prime customers).

Unfortunately for many of these particular niches, it led to me eventually making most of my purchases on amazon. Somewhat annoying when amazon is least problematic retailer in a particular niche.

The so-called local retailers were run by folks who either didn't know how to run a small business, and/or were relegated to doing it because they were "blocked" or kicked out of their first choice of a profession (ie. musicians, actors, writers, former professors, investment banker, etc ...). The latter basically saw running a local mom-and-pop shop as beneath them.
Old 08-05-20, 09:30 PM
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Re: Coronavirus: An "Extinction Level Event" for the Direct Market

I've read on the DC FB retailers group that some comic book chain stores were some of the ones selling the Legends of the Dark Knight regular book for $25 out of the gate. One of the stores doing this on release day was.... Midtown. I can't confirm this yet, but I got a friend that is going to stop by tomorrow to see if they have any left in-store and for what price. I know that the Metal #3 book that comes out next week with the Robin King cover is already priced online for $10 but they've been "out of stock" since they listed it for pre-order today.

https://www.midtowncomics.com/product/1943183
Old 08-05-20, 09:37 PM
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Re: Coronavirus: An "Extinction Level Event" for the Direct Market

Originally Posted by morriscroy
(More generally).

Sounds like you have a good business sense in recognizing your prime customers.

In other niches unrelated to comic books where I was a prime or high volume customer, I have abandoned local small business retailers over dumb stuff similar to this. Not surprisingly, many of them went out of business a few years later. (ie. Their pattern of customer complaints eventually led to them having zero high volume/prime customers).

Unfortunately for many of these particular niches, it led to me eventually making most of my purchases on amazon. Somewhat annoying when amazon is least problematic retailer in a particular niche.

The so-called local retailers were run by folks who either didn't know how to run a small business, and/or were relegated to doing it because they were "blocked" or kicked out of their first choice of a profession (ie. musicians, actors, writers, former professors, investment banker, etc ...). The latter basically saw running a local mom-and-pop shop as beneath them.
My family always been business owners so I've learned many tricks of the retail side that I've applied throughout my life. Still, many of these things are common sense. I've mentioned here before that when I had my comic book store I basically used common sense to make it grow and it worked. What killed my store was that one of my business partners was stealing and the other business partner was in denial because they were best friends. But in general, I treated my customers with respect, had 0 gatekeepers, kept the store clean, organized and well stocked, and had a good staff that was knowledgeable and worked hard. To this day, I don't get why many store owners are or employ gatekeepers, have disorganized stores and are lazy in general and then expect to be successful.
Old 08-06-20, 09:00 AM
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Re: Coronavirus: An "Extinction Level Event" for the Direct Market

Originally Posted by Red Hood
But in general, I treated my customers with respect, had 0 gatekeepers, kept the store clean, organized and well stocked, and had a good staff that was knowledgeable and worked hard. To this day, I don't get why many store owners are or employ gatekeepers, have disorganized stores and are lazy in general and then expect to be successful.
Of the local retailers which had gatekeeper types on the payroll, most of them went out of business after a few years. (Independent of the niche).

Of the "gatekeeper" types I've known offline in person in many niches, they almost always had the mentality/personality of a boring "know it all". Usually this personality type would be at home in an ivory tower as a professor. Unfortunately there are very few tenured professorships at universities and/or research labs, with demand greatly outstripping supply. So their "know-it-all professor" mentality ends up manifesting as gatekeepers in whatever non-university professions they end up employed in.

Old 08-11-20, 08:38 AM
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Re: Coronavirus: An "Extinction Level Event" for the Direct Market

The store that was 4th closest time me has closed down in the last several months. The three really close ones seem fine though.
Old 08-12-20, 11:38 PM
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Re: Coronavirus: An "Extinction Level Event" for the Direct Market

Originally Posted by morriscroy
In other niches unrelated to comic books where I was a prime or high volume customer, I have abandoned local small business retailers over dumb stuff similar to this. Not surprisingly, many of them went out of business a few years later. (ie. Their pattern of customer complaints eventually led to them having zero high volume/prime customers).

Unfortunately for many of these particular niches, it led to me eventually making most of my purchases on amazon. Somewhat annoying when amazon is least problematic retailer in a particular niche.

The so-called local retailers were run by folks who either didn't know how to run a small business, and/or were relegated to doing it because they were "blocked" or kicked out of their first choice of a profession (ie. musicians, actors, writers, former professors, investment banker, etc ...). The latter basically saw running a local mom-and-pop shop as beneath them.
Yes, I've run into assholes like this before. They think they can provide poor customer service/poor products & still get repeat business. Well, guess what - it doesn't work that way. If you don't take care of the customer(s) and/or are rude to the customer(s), they will vote with their wallet(s) and won't return.

All of these places went out of business before too long (and this was well before the virus). Who's laughing now, douche bags?!

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Old 10-29-20, 07:36 AM
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Re: Coronavirus: An "Extinction Level Event" for the Direct Market

On the same day the good news from the sales reports for comic books came out, many LCS decided to go out and make asses of themselves by pricing at premium ebay prices new releases of Batgirl 50, Spawn 311 and TMNT: The Last Ronin. Lots of people complaining on social media that stores priced all these books on release day for between $20-50. That’s a great way to drive customers out of the business. And this wasn’t only for people who came to the store and were trying to pick up the books from the shelves. By many accounts it happened to people who had these books on their pull list.
Old 10-29-20, 09:03 AM
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Re: Coronavirus: An "Extinction Level Event" for the Direct Market

I remember comic stores pulling that shit with the Death of Superman comic and it was one of the things (but not the only thing) that led me to stop buying monthly comics, it was just the final straw that soured me on the hobby (and I've never returned to buying floppies since). And it looks like they still do it, wonderful way to lose customers you really need right now, idiots.
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Old 10-29-20, 10:41 AM
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Re: Coronavirus: An "Extinction Level Event" for the Direct Market

Maybe they really really needed the money or something, but I don't know how you pull this on your pull list customers. I definitely would never go back to the store. And unlike the 90s,there are lots of other options than the LCBS to turn to (if you don't swear off comics entirely).
The following 2 users liked this post by fujishig:
IBJoel (11-03-20), TheDude (10-30-20)

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