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-   -   Should the writers who make charactes popular get the same credit as the creators? (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/comic-book-talk/642533-should-writers-who-make-charactes-popular-get-same-credit-creators.html)

robin2099 12-31-17 01:51 PM

Should the writers who make charactes popular get the same credit as the creators?
 
Thought about this one night when watching The Punisher on Netflix. The credits mentioned that Gerry Conway, John Romita and Russ Andru. Who wasn't mentioned at all? Garth Ennis. Why did I find this funny? Because the adaption of The Punisher has very little to do with the one that was created by the above and more in common with what Garth Ennis did in Punisher Max.

Other examples:

-Stan Lee is always credited for creating X-Men but no one gave a shit about them until Chris Claremont wrote them and started how they mainly have been portrayed ever since.

-Stan Lee created Daredevil but Frank Miller's Daredevil has been the iconic representation of him in all media.

-Denny O'Neils work on Batman in the 70's started the most iconic portrayal of not only Batman but Joker as well.

-Deadpool was a Deathstroke knock off until Joe Kelly wrote him as the Merc with the mouth.

-A large majority of Superman's portrayal over the last thirty years has been based on John Byrne's Man of Steel work.

Now I'm not saying that they should have created by credits or anything, but you would assume they would at least get "Based on stories written by" credits.

cultshock 12-31-17 02:11 PM

Re: Should the writers who make charactes popular get the same credit as the creators
 

Originally Posted by robin2099 (Post 13235999)

Now I'm not saying that they should have created by credits or anything, but you would assume they would at least get "Based on stories written by" credits.

I definitely agree with this. To use one of your examples, a bunch of characters in Netflix's DD series (Elektra, Stick, The Hand) wouldn't even exist if it wasn't for Frank Miller's amazing run in the comic series.

majorjoe23 12-31-17 07:44 PM

Re: Should the writers who make charactes popular get the same credit as the creators
 
In the credits after the Marvel films they usually have a “Special Thanks” section for people who didn’t create the characters, but who inspired the stories in the films, like Walt Simonson for the Thor films and Ed Brubaker for Captain America (though I think he did get a creator credit for Winter Soldier, similar to how Wolfman and Perez get one for Nightwing, since it was determined they’re distinct enough from Bucky/Robin).

rocket1312 12-31-17 08:14 PM

Re: Should the writers who make charactes popular get the same credit as the creators
 
I know John Byrne talks a lot on his forum about royalties he gets from Marvel and DC movies, with Man of Steel and Days of Future Past being two recent examples. So even if he's not getting an official story credit, someone keeping track of all that stuff.

Timber 01-01-18 07:14 PM

Re: Should the writers who make charactes popular get the same credit as the creators
 
I think I agree with every example except the original thought that sparked the thread. I think Punisher was super popular before the Max line and Ennis. I think Ennis/Dillon did a great version of the character but I think it was all based off of what came before. I think the other examples actually changed the characters.

PhantomStranger 01-01-18 10:16 PM

Re: Should the writers who make charactes popular get the same credit as the creators
 
The Punisher was super popular in the late 1980s, before Ennis was even in comics. It was always a battle between Wolverine and the Punisher as Marvel's most popular character at the time.

Chris Claremont is the person that gets a raw deal when they say Stan Lee created the X-Men. The X-Men everyone knows today were made by Claremont with very little input from others. Stan's X-Men weren't selling at all, which is why Claremont as a no-name back in the Seventies got a shot at the book.

ytrez 01-02-18 06:38 AM

Re: Should the writers who make charactes popular get the same credit as the creators
 

Originally Posted by PhantomStranger (Post 13236887)
The X-Men everyone knows today were made by Claremont with very little input from others.

That's a bit of an over statement and doesn't sufficiently credit Dave Cockrum and John Byrne. Also, if you mean "made" literally, you're forgetting that Len Wein wrote Giant Size X-Men #1 which introduced the new team/characters with Cockrum. Claremont had no input into this at all.

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20081029113822

Timber 01-02-18 08:05 AM

Re: Should the writers who make charactes popular get the same credit as the creators
 
CC didn't create the characters but he made the characters. It was just an international group of characters (PC before PC was popular) and then Chris came on and started building the personalities. Byrne gets a huge assistance credit with this. If I had a say in who "created" today's X-Men I'd say CC, Cockrum (who's designs are still being used to this day), and Byrne who heavily plotted during his run. Stan Lee gave us a good idea but was unable to execute that idea.

brayzie 01-02-18 10:58 PM

Re: Should the writers who make charactes popular get the same credit as the creators
 

Originally Posted by robin2099 (Post 13235999)

Now I'm not saying that they should have created by credits or anything, but you would assume they would at least get "Based on stories written by" credits.

I agree.
When I was watching Man of Steel, I was noticing that they borrowed a lot from John Byrne's 80s reboot of the character. Did Byrne get credited? If not, he should have. But if he's at least getting royalties like rocket1312 said, then it's all good and I'm happy for him. I don't know how screenwriting and story credit works in Hollywood.

I also was under the impression that Claremont wrote Giant Sized X-Men #1. It was actually Len Wein! RIP Len.

Does the recent Netflix series use specific elements from Ennis' Punisher stories? Because yeah, I remember the character always being super popular and more or less the same, ever since his first mini-series in the 80s.


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