Evolution of the Direct Market
 

Interesting reading from the founder of Mile High Comics about the real history behind the direct market. Lots of developments from the 1970s I was only vaguely aware of and how Star Wars possibly saved the comic book industry in 1977.

http://www.milehighcomics.com/tales/cbg95.html

Re: Evolution of the Direct Market
 

I'm only partway thru it, but it is fascinating so far. Thanks PS.

Re: Evolution of the Direct Market
 

I feel like I've read part of this before, though that may have just been a different account of the same occurrences. I'm still working my way through but his summary of the letter he wrote Marvel back in '79 struck a chord with me:

And then in the actual letter itself:

Also the guy was only 24 years old. I'm just getting to the Jim Shooter part but Shooter at the time must have been around 26, having started more than a decade earlier in comics at the tender age of 14.

Excellent analysis of the real cost of focusing on the direct market, and removing the entry point for a lot of potential readers, in this part:
http://www.milehighcomics.com/tales/cbg110.html

Re: Evolution of the Direct Market
 

There were some interesting points raised about the newsstand market that makes sense in retrospect. One reason why Marvel and DC were so quick to abandon newsstand distribution is that it was heavily mobbed up on the East Coast. The increasingly corporate business owners at Marvel and DC in the 1980s got nervous relying on New York mobsters for part of their business.

The owner of Mile High Comics made more news this year when he pulled out of the San Diego Comic Con for the first time in decades. He wrote a letter saying the Con owners have been pushing out comic book dealers over the last few years and it wasn't worth the hassles anymore as a straight comic book retailer.

Re: Evolution of the Direct Market
 

They said the booths were too expensive this year, and they remember that their prices are mile high also and wouldnt make the money back.

Re: Evolution of the Direct Market
 

Still haven't finished, but reading through this really reinforces the idea to me that the print market is outdated. Just the arcane practices of ordering and shipping all these comics, which is still a hassle today and just results in a ton of otherwise worthless paper that sits in long boxes. I realize not everyone is willing to go digital or trade only and that it is still the lifeblood of this industry, and I appreciate a good comic book store and the effort it takes to maintain one, but it just seems insane, especially with cover prices the way they currently are.

One thing that's interesting to me is that the digital distribution model is mainly funneled through one company and in some respects things are the same. I'd like to think of comixology as a benevolent entity that works well with all publishers, but they're run by a big corporation now that also sells physical books as well. I'd be curious to read why the big publishers didn't just pump resources into their own digital stores instead of going third party, though I guess that didn't work out for Dark Horse.

Re: Evolution of the Direct Market
 

I think the biggest thing driving dealers away from conventions is the internet. Between Rozanski's own Mile High Comics website, MyComicShop, Midtown, and eBay, there's no need to go to a convention and dig through longboxes to find stuff you don't have. In the 70s, 80s, and 90s, sure, but now it's just an outdated business model.

Re: Evolution of the Direct Market
 

Comic book conventions have mostly morphed into everything but comics. The problem with having aa comic book booth at a big con is that most people are spemding mony on celebrity autograpghs and photo ops. People aren't going to these big cons to buy floppies anymore.

If I want some random cheap comic back issue, i'll get them at a comic convention in the $1 boxes. I won't use the internet and pay $5 shipping on top of the price of the book. If I want some expensive issue (CGC graded), I'd order it online as I know the prices are going to be cheaper for those online than at the cons.

Incidently if you want good deals on books, support your little local comic book shows that are held at teh conference rooms at hotels. Their booth prices are cheaper and they often get collectors that either need money or want to get out of collecting. They'll get booths their and try to unload their books for cheap. I was at one not too long ago and manged to get some near mint 9.2 or better copies of Tower of Shadows #1, G.I. Joe #2, Saga of the Swamp Thing #21, and a few others for $4 each. I got a few for myself and managed to flip some of them for $35-50 each on Ebay.

Re: Evolution of the Direct Market
 

Chuck Rozanski looks like the biggest redneck hippie you could ever meet but the guys quite smart and likely worth many millions of dollars.

Re: Evolution of the Direct Market
 

Comic books are the only print medium actually growing in revenue.

Re: Evolution of the Direct Market
 

Sure, some dealers at cons have $1 bins of unbagged, unboarded, and unorganized comics from the bronze age through today. If you want to spend your time hunched over a box flipping through literally of hundreds of issues, then that's fine. For me, I find that to be a complete waste of time.

I've found that if you browse around the organized books at dealer booths, sometimes you can find prices that are the same or a little cheaper than online + shipping. Often times, yes, they are above online prices though. Every time I've looked for specific books, I've found it would be cheaper for me to go on eBay and pay for shipping, or go on MyComicShop and just do one big order.

The only good deals I've seen at cons lately are discount trades. But even with that you're going for old and/or obscure stuff. Newer stuff you can usually snag new at something like InStockTrades for cheap, or certain used bookstores.

Re: Evolution of the Direct Market
 

I've only been to one comic book convention a few years ago. It was cool. I got bags full of great comics I otherwise never would of heard of.

Many comic shops these days are doing away with long boxes and replace them with shelves of tpb's.

Re: Evolution of the Direct Market
 

It really depends what you are looking for. If you care about condition, you don't really want to order online because it is like a box of chocolates unless you get CGC graded stuff. I'll generally look through the $1 boxes just to try to find some gems to flip. It's the thrill of the hunt kind of thing if I have some free time while at the conventions.

I generally got he trade hardcover route on mostly everything. I can usually get the trades for $5-7 at the cons and hardcovers for $15 or less. In the past year or so, I've been getting The Walking Dead trades for $5 each, much cheaper than online. A lot of these books are available at teh local libraries now too, so if it's not something obscure I can get it there just to read.

Re: Evolution of the Direct Market
 

I don't think the back issue market is what it was 15-20 years ago. Used to be if you wanted to get a back issue, you would have the choice of going to 1-2 local comicbook shops. Now most consumers are transitioning to trades, so most stores don't want to use the space for tons of long boxes. more often most comic stores have basically trades/hardcovers and toys/figures, with the exception of the new comics. Any unsold excess are put in long bins and uloaded at conventions.

I know my local comic shop still has long boxes but that store has a lot of space in multiple rooms. The long boxes are way in the back down a long halway. Upfront are the trades, new comics and toys.

Re: Evolution of the Direct Market
 

Well, any backissue from what, the past 20 or even 30 years isn't really worth anything with few exceptions. And everything is available digitally or online so you don't even need to track things down to fill gaps, which is what I mainly bought backissues for as a kid.

As far as comics growing in revenue, I kinda feel like a lot of that is just milking the same fan base for more and more. Stuff like variant covers and shipping a ton of titles twice a month, then the endless crossovers, I'm most sure any of that brings new fans in. I think I will always be hooked on comics... my kids, not so much, despite my best efforts.

Of course I'm talking mainly about Marvel/DC here, there are some truly great Image and independent books out there that may indeed be garnering new readers.

Re: Evolution of the Direct Market
 

The multiple cover and intentioally making a book rare gets a but overboard nowadays, I don't collect so much anymore so I'll generally just buy what I want to read or display.

Re: Evolution of the Direct Market
 

Yeah. I'm not a fan of modern trades, especially considering how modern Marvel and DC are written with trades in mind that results in some super decompressed stories.



I used to hate when the normal issue would have a lackluster cover, and the variant (1:50, 1:100 etc) would be awesome. It's like, why not put the eye catching cover on the regular retail edition to get more people to buy it?

I would think it would be hard to attract new readers to Marvel and DC. If sales are going up because of the movies, great. But I would have assumed that since superheroes are so prevalent in so much other media, people would have less incentive to hunt down a comic shop to buy the latest story featuring them.

Re: Evolution of the Direct Market
 

[QUOTE=

Of course I'm talking mainly about Marvel/DC here, there are some truly great Image and independent books out there that may indeed be garnering new readers.[/QUOTE]

i think Image and the independents have the better stories nowadays. Maybe I'm just older and no longer entertained by super hero comics anymore; but it seems the independents are more innovative story wise, while the Big 2 just focus on rehshing th esame storied with slight variations and multi-crossover titles. I don't think the independents cross over with other titles anywhere near the volume of Marvel and DC if at all.

Re: Evolution of the Direct Market
 

Oh yeah, the independents like Image and Dark Horse are crafting stories a thousand times better than the same ole stuff from DC and Marvel. The big two has a core audience that will buy their stuff no matter what, I'm one of them, but I'd be curious to see the numbers outside that core.

Re: Evolution of the Direct Market
 

Oh Image and others are firing on all cylinders, and a major problem with Marvel and DC is that their best creators keep jumping ship to do creator owned stuff once they get their name out there.

I mean if you think about it, writing for the big 2, there are two main avenues. You take on one of the big names, usually because you're a big fan, knowing full well you'll never be able to enact any kind of lasting change on the character because both editorial and the fan base won't let you. At best you can craft a standalone story that endures, but even then you have to navigate through a land mine of crossovers and events that threaten to derail your story. Or you can take a more obscure character, do what you will, but risk early cancellation because the vast majority of the comic audience doesn't care about obscure characters and doesn't believe the book will last six months, so they don't buy it and self fulfill the prophecy.

Or you can say screw it and play in your own little sandbox, creating something like Invincible or East of West. Stuff where there's a singular vision throughout, and if someone wants to pick it up a usually linear way to do so.

Anyway sorry for veering way off topic. But I do feel like Marvel and DC sometimes treat a lot of their stuff like disposable commodities, stuff to be read once then probably never again. Which is fine when comics were cheap and disposable, but it's almost insane to spend so much money, and then time bagging and boarding and storing, not to mention all the money in printing and shipping and making inventory, for stuff that they just flood the market with to keep the names and IPs out there. Certainly not everything is like this and I'm sure all creators take pride in their work, but it strikes me as similar to making new FF movies.

Re: Evolution of the Direct Market
 

This is one of the biggest issues is that no matter what change is implemented, it usually goes back to the original status quo after a year or two. Sometimes it may take longer, but it will go back. I'm sure Peter Parker will be broke againat some point and selling photos to the Daily Bugle. The whole Secret Empire storyling isnt really interesting when you know they'll reverse everyting at the end of the storyline.

Marvel and DC can't even create any new characters anymore unless they are an offshoot of their already established characters. Spider Gwen is just an alternate version of Spiderman and Gwen Stacey. X23 is just a clear spinoff from Wolverine. The new Captain Marvel has been around for years as a civilian. Nothing new or unique will come out of their companies

Re: Evolution of the Direct Market
 

I like Image Comics overall. For the longest time they had better quality paper, the traditional 22 pages as opposed to 21/20, and were actually cheaper than Marvel and DC.

That said, for me, they never had a series that I'm aware of, that really go me hooked. But I've enjoyed Phonogram and Shinku.

Found this googling Image Comics. Descender sounds interesting.

http://www.techtimes.com/articles/62...all-tastes.htm

Re: Evolution of the Direct Market
 

Descender is pretty good, but you haven't been hooked by Saga, Southern Bastards, Powers, Manhattan Projects, Deadly Class, East of West, Fatale, Criminal, Astro City, Chew, Sex Criminals, Paper Girls, Lazarus, Walking Dead, etc etc

Re: Evolution of the Direct Market
 

Walking Dead is probably the most.well known one. I liked what ive read of Clone so far. Theyve definetly come a long way from where they started. They were basically an independent super hero company when they first came on the scene. Theyre much better now. Its hard to keep track of all their "imprint" studios they have.I guess Image is just now a publisher for other independent companies than it is an actual company in the way that Marvel or DC were.

Re: Evolution of the Direct Market
 

They had always agreed that Image as a company wouldn't own any of the IPs, everything would be owned by individual creators, which at the time were the founders. Since they all came from a superhero background they all did superhero-ey books. When Kirkman came in with Walking Dead (and Invincible) and did well enough to be elevated to partner, they did a marked shift in what they published, including a shift to feature writers and to diversify their portfolio.

Though Astro City is under the Vertigo banner now since Wildstorm (and Lee) went to DC.

Re: Evolution of the Direct Market
 

How does it work with Image. A writer/creator comes up with a book idea, and then Image would produce and distribute the book for a fee, with no rights to the property?

Re: Evolution of the Direct Market
 

Yeah, I think so.

There's some kind of process to get the book approved, the creators pay some kind of fee to cover printing and publication costs, and then gets to keep all of the money the book makes. The creators also retain all of the copyrights and trademarks, so if Hollywood picks up the rights the creators reap all of the rewards.

On the other hand, I don't think Image gives out any kind of advances or front money for printing, so if you want to TPB your series you'll need to cover it yourself. In that respect it's sort of like self-publishing.

Re: Evolution of the Direct Market
 

Wildstorm went to Marvel? When did this happen? I can't find any articles that state this as such. Last I heard is that Wildstorm was shut down, the characters folded into the main DCU, and Jim Lee was co-publisher at DC.

Re: Evolution of the Direct Market
 

I'm pretty sure that was just a brain fart and that fujishig meant DC.

Re: Evolution of the Direct Market
 

Yup, brain fart.

Re: Evolution of the Direct Market
 

DC and particularly Marvel are little more than IP farms at this point for the movie divisions. DC still seems to have some independence left in it but the success of the Marvel movies has drastically altered that company's landscape.

I suspect DC would have similar problems if someone like Geoff Johns wasn't overseeing things on a creative level.

The death of the direct market is coming, slowly but surely. There are simply too many market forces working against it, even as superheroes are more popular than ever.

Independent comics need the direct market more than Marvel and DC. It's going to be a bloodbath for independent creators as the direct market shrinks.

Re: Evolution of the Direct Market
 

Instead of starting a new thread I thought this would belong in this discussion...info. we all already know...

http://comicbooksresource.com/disney...ff-shelf-soon/

What if we told you, one day Marvel comics would stop publishing? You would probably laugh at us. However, if the signs mean anything, it may happen sooner than you expect.

The purchase of Marvel comics by Disney back in 2009 was a cause of mass speculation. There were talks of how the movies may take the comics out of business. While that buzz soon died out, it cannot be ignored that two giant corporate houses now own most of the comic book industry of America today. Marvel is owned by Disney, while Time Warner owns DC.

Let’s have a little context to this story. As you might have noticed, comic books are no longer sold like newspapers. The concept of “Direct Marketing” is responsible for most of their sales in the USA. It means that independent specialty shops are responsible for getting the comics from the sole distributor (Diamond) and selling to customers. However, this is the catch: specialty stores are hard to locate. Most people are not interested in driving miles before finding the single shop in their city. Also, even the biggest fans feel that paying $4 for just 24-32 pages of comics is a bit too much. There are diehard comic book clubs, of course, but the chances of becoming a part of them are slim. These factors have been at play for decades now, but the digital age has only hastened the death of American comic book industry.

Now, let us come back to Marvel. Right now, marvel is the top comic book publisher in the country. However, the top spot means little and less, since both its profits and popularity are on a decline. Marvel has been coming up with excuses like the diversity of characters as being responsible for the decline in popularity. There might be some truth in that, but it does not change the fact that Marvel is losing its customer base.

And here is the big news: Disney and Time Warner are currently publishing comics, not for the profits, but purely to extract the intellectual property from the characters, which could then be used in other media (movies, TV, and games).

But this might soon change. According to reports, the entire comic book industry made revenue of around $1 billion in 2016. Sounds good, right? Well, this was the total revenue for all the comic book publishers. Marvel’s share would hardly be more than a few million dollars, and even that would be the revenue, not profits. In short, Marvel comics are not the cash-cow for Disney by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, Disney is making more money from the box office revenues of a single Marvel movie than they do from the annual comic book sales. And like we know, Disney won’t think twice before shutting down a business that does not bring enough profits for them.

The sole reason why Disney allowed Marvel to exist thus far was due to the brand recognition it provided. But that was the past decade. Today, MCU has more fans than Marvel comics ever had. The fact that MCU only shares a little material from the comics has meant that it could exist entirely on its own, without any need of Marvel comics. Despite the enormous success of MCU, comic book sales had only lifted a little. Most fans prefer buying merchandise than comics.

In short, Marvel comics have little and less need in today’s world. If the MCU, which borrowed characters and story arcs from them, is ready to exist independently, it sure shouts “existential crisis.” However, that does not mean it is the end. Remember, for Disney, Marvel is just a brand. They might cease the comic book publishing themselves, but may license the rights to some other publisher. Disney is expert in doing this, so it must not come as a surprise. It would save Disney from the trouble of the whole publishing task, while still managing to mine IP from the characters. So, marvel comics might continue to exist, but just in a different form.

Re: Evolution of the Direct Market
 

I know this is an opinion article with no inside information, but I just don't see it happening, at least not anytime soon. Unless Marvel Comics are just bleeding money at some point, why shut them down? It's true that they're not as profitable as some of their other divisions, but they are more than just the creative IP behind the movies... they are the IP behind the cartoons, the videogames, books the mobile games, the merchandise. If you let that IP stagnate, it may very well eventually go away. Plus you open up the playing field for WB/DC to take over, which would affect their precious MCU eventually as well.

Plus, I realize the number of comic book purchasers is relatively small, but you're going to tick off your core nerd fanbase.

Re: Evolution of the Direct Market
 

In recent times I thought about getting back into collecting monthly comics. Nowadays I'm kinda bored of buying/collecting dvds and blurays.

Back in the day, I more or less stopped collecting comics shortly after the Secret Wars 2 limited series was over. At the time, I thought Secret Wars 2 was a "crossover hell".

Nowadays it seems like crossover hell on steroids. This and the $3 cover prices is what has turned me off from jumping back onto the comic collecting treadmill. (For now, I'm not willing to go all-digital for comic books).


Ironically, collecting comics today may very well be more expensive than collecting dvds/blurays.

Re: Evolution of the Direct Market
 

As far as dollar per hour of entertainment, comics may indeed be the most expensive form of traditional entertainment around.

However, if you have any kind of tablet, I would suggest checking out comixology anyway, because there are a bunch of free issues that you can kind of test the waters with to see if it's for you. Barring that, it makes a lot more sense to get trades and collections that come highly recommended (from places like Instocktrades), since collecting monthly is not only more expensive, it's essentially a crapshoot because you have no idea if the creative team will be around long enough to finish their story.

Secret Wars 2 was one of the starts of crossover hell, I think we documented that in another thread somewhere in this forum.

Re: Evolution of the Direct Market
 

Every now and then, I spend an entire Saturday or Sunday afternoon reading through some trades at a local library. Though I've rarely ever signed them out after reading. Not many which were good reads a second time.

Re: Evolution of the Direct Market
 

I think it's speculation that may be correct but vastly overshoots when it may happen. I could see the day when Disney decides to license out their Marvel comics to another publisher, but that day is probably a couple of decades away. It's basically assuming that Marvel's profitability would collapse when the direct market collapses. DC has diversified their income streams far more than Marvel and are in a better spot to handle the direct market's end.
Use a site like http://collectededitions.blogspot.com/ to find out which trades are worth reading. Modern comics are occasionally worth it but there is a lot of generic garbage getting put out. If you stick to the flagship titles put out by the big two, you are usually okay.