Travis McClain

It's not just the art, though. It's the characterization, best personified by Stargirl, who seems to have been rewritten with Penthouse letters in mind.

There's also been a great deal of self-deprecating humor, which plays very well for a reader like me. Also, Barbara's struggle to accept being able to walk again has resonated with a lot of us who have dealt with ongoing health problems, physical and mental. Simone didn't just write it as a character gimmick. She wrote it convincingly and things like that mean a lot.

There was a very detailed and impassioned blog post about Batgirl written months ago by Natalie Reed, a young trans woman in British Columbia, about what the book meant to her, and how and why the book had attracted such a devoted following in the trans community. It's a perfect microcosm of how the book appealed to a lot of different readers who might be characterized as belonging to a "niche demographic." It's a bit dense, but it's terrific reading.

brayzie

That's my point though, why cite fan service aimed at male readers as the reason why females don't start reading comics when it wouldn't make a difference?

Manga has a different history, culturally speaking. There was no Seduction of the Innocent or court trials to cement the idea that manga was strictly for kids and in need of watered down. So manga was able to flourish and grow and became a respected art form full of variety whereas American comic books became synonymous with superheroes.

brayzie

I don't know about Stargirl, but I remember seeing some panels of New52 Kory, and she became a slut. I'm sure the writers will just rationalize it as not being slut, because she comes from an alien world where being extremely promiscuous is the norm. But it would take me out of the story because it's a blatant way of pandering to fanboy fantasies. Seems like a very unimaginative way to draw a contrast between alien and Earth cultures.


Then that sucks that Simone is getting the boot. I read a Batman: Confidential story featuring Batgirl and Catwoman drawn by Kevin Maguire and written by Fabian Nicieza and it was pretty fun. It made me actually like the character.

If it's just to shoe-horn in "Death of a Family," I would be pretty pissed. Especially since no one stays dead anyways.

Thanks for the link, sounds like a good read.

Travis McClain

Dammit. I can't believe I typed "Stargirl" instead of "Starfire". I may have reached my multi-tasking limit.

kodave

Hmm... I wonder what they'll do for 17 now that whatever Gail had planned is out. Just a one off random stand alone issue? Disrupting things like we're some kind of savages who don't trade-wait for nicely laid out multi-issue arcs?

fujishig

For a minute there I was thinking "what the heck did they do to Stargirl, and after I held her up as Johns being able to write girls."

The Starfire thing bothered me, but let's be honest, besides her portrayal in the cartoon her main recognizable traits have been pretty sexist. And if you think about it, they basically screwed every classic Teen Titan member, besides Cyborg.

I remember reading that article about Oracle, and they did a wonderful job for a long time resisting the temptation to retcon that away, and making her into an entirely new character (we'll just ignore the fact that she got some kind of gigantic upgrade in intellect along the way). In fact, that and Barry Allen staying dead were the two things I was fairly certain DC would hold onto, since they teased and teased and teased but never reverted, until recently. (Of course, before that I was fairly certain Jason Todd and Bucky would stay dead, but that turned out to be wrong too)

So, if someone can put it in spoilers as appropriate: did they ever reveal how Barbara recovered? If not, did Simone have a plan that will now never see the light of day?

stingermck

kgrogers1979

Travis McClain

Here's a thing.Gail Simone is the new Batgirl writer.

— GailSimone (@GailSimone) December 21, 2012

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No further details, but I'm glad to hear this debacle has been (apparently) resolved. I won't be fully satisfied until and unless we find out what the hell this was about in the first place but for the time being I'm just happy to know that someone making decisions at DC still understands things like backlash.

In the grand scheme, though, it still undermines any confidence I may have had in their editorial direction. They clearly don't even have anything thought out beyond next month's issue, much less a year from now or beyond. That's no way to run a comic book company, and it's a perfect microcosm of the industry and its self-inflicted woes.

Today, though, I rejoice.

The Valeyard

DC over-ruled the Batgirl editor and unfired her. It was the internet backlash and the fear that every convention would now be filled with Batgirls asking where Gail Simone is. It's pretty much how Dick Grayson survived Infinite Crisis.

No news on if Simone signed a new DC exclusive or not. Wonder how the working relationship between her and her editor will be now? He's had the teeth pulled from his bite.

Travis McClain

Oh, no question that's what's happened, and why.

That would be Brian Cunningham, formerly of Wizard. I remember reading his stuff once upon a time. I can't recall now whether I liked it, nor do I know whether I'd enjoy his stuff at this point in my life. I have a hard time believing that he just came onto the book a couple months ago and arbitrarily decided that one of the best-selling, best-reviewed books DC had needed a "shake up".

I generally try to avoid playing the Internet speculation game too much. Like I said in previous posts, it's really when you combine this with other incidents that it paints a pretty chaotic and dubious picture of just what the hell is going on at the top over at DC. At best, they're incompetent.

At least they're competent enough to have fixed this, though.

kodave

I wonder what's going to happen now - #17 solicited for Gail but then she got fired with #16 as her last, with nothing ever re-solicited for #17... Then Fawkes was solicited for #18-19. So will Gail come back at #20, or is she now back at #17 and Fawkes is still doing #18-19, or is Fawkes now off the book too? Batgirl might be a mess for a while thanks to behind the scenes shenanigans.

Travis McClain

Fawkes was only announced for #18-19, though obviously he was going to also pen #17 (originally solicited as Simone). I don't think he was planned as the ongoing successor so much as the interim guy.

My guess is that either he'll truncate and finish his story, or she'll take it back over with his story in-progress. Either way, she'll be writing the book solo when she resumes.

kodave

I don't think he was going to write #17, as they never bothered to make an announcement about who was writing that issue. He was doing a 2 issue arc as a "guest writer" starting at 18... If they wanted him on 17, why not bump that two issue arc to 17 and 18 or ask him to make it three issues over 17-19? Seems like 17 was destined to be a throw away issue of some kind.

Travis McClain

My guess is, Fawkes was given #17 as well. His was the only name announced as a successor and they can't very well have just skipped publishing a #17 altogether. His entire arc, whether two or three issues, was very likely intended as a throwaway filler arc and possibly a test run for him as the ongoing writer. In baseball terms, a spot starter who may have had a crack at joining the rotation. We'll find out soon enough, of course!

The fact that they never clarified that is yet more evidence of how disorderly things are at the top over at DC right now.

davidh777

I'm continuing to work through the TPBs and HCs I bought at various times, mostly pre-order. Birds of Prey was fine but probably not something I'll pursue. I was a big fan of some of the older TPBs--some Dixon, some Simone--but the series went off the rails. Not sure whose fault it was.

I also read Batgirl with some eagerness considering the controversy and discussion. I really liked it and will most likely pick up the next volume. Just a really interesting story that grabbed me, while the BoP had me confused.

I think the only one I have left in my stack is Catwoman. Basically my only exposure to the New 52 has been A-Men with connections to wildlife (Animal Man and Aquaman) and Bat-Universe females.

Maxflier

Did anything ever become of the hooded chick who was showing up everywhere or is that still a mystery?

Travis McClain

Yeah, DC had a special issue for Free Comic Book Day about her (Pandora) and her story that sets up a crossover event coming this year called "Trinity War".

Maxflier

Interesting. Guess I need to try and track a copy down.

kgrogers1979

Yep, and Pandora is the same Pandora from Greek myth. The FCBD issue also revealed that Phantom Stranger is Judas Iscariot who betrayed Jesus Christ. Also another man was there who apparently was cursed and became The Question. Together, Pandora, Phantom Stranger, and The Question are "The Trinity of Sin." That's about all that has been revealed so far.

Edit to add:

You can read the comic for free on Comixology.

http://www.comixology.com/DC-Comics-...omic/JAN120006

Its not worth spending money on it since it was just a FCBD issue.

Hokeyboy

Yeah, what made The Phantom Stranger cool is that you never REALLY knew who he was...

Maxflier

Appreciate the link for the free download, but it looks like I will have to download the iPhone app and read it on an iPhone which is not exactly ideal (don't have an iPad). If that is the only option, I don't mind spending a few bucks for the actual book.

kgrogers1979

Don't you have a PC or laptop? You can use Comixology on a PC or laptop.

Maxflier

I downloaded it in itunes, but can't see any option to open it on my computer. But I am able to view it from the website now so it's all good. Thanks.

JasonF

What made the Question cool is that he was just a guy (or later, a woman) in a mask, busting heads at the street level, but I guess that's out the window too.

I liked the Secret Origin issue that presented four possible origins for the Phantom Stranger. As you might expect, Alan Moore's version was the best, but the other three weren't half bad either. Except Dan Mishkin's origin that ripped off Lee and Kirby's Galactus origin. That one was kind of bad.