DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
#301
DVD Talk Hero
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
Preterite, while there will certainly be an impact on the storyline from this not-a-reboot and the Legion Lost book, it does look like LoSH will continue with few changes...at least, that's what I'm hoping. I'm willing to support that book to support the pre-not-a-reboot line.
I do think there are two kinds of mindless collectors. There are those who need to have all the issues. And there are those, like me, who like certain characters or teams and hang on to books because of that, hoping that a creative team will gel. There are breaking points, of course; I wasn't going to buy Jurgen's version of the Teen Titans with Atom, and I've heard nothing but bad things for the non-teen Titans book. But I'll usually give a book at least a chance if a favorite, little-used character is in it. With the reboot, however, that's all but gone. I can't complain too much, though... I'll lament Teen Titans (which had just turned around), Batgirl, Superboy, and even Supergirl, but I've been barely hanging onto JSA and JLA, and as much as I initially liked Flash, it was basically just filler. I just read the latest trade of Green Lantern Corps where two different writers did consecutive stories about the same obscure character and basically ignored each other's plot. DC editorial has been absolutely horrendous lately, and if this gets them on a better track with a fresh slate, good for them.
I do think there are two kinds of mindless collectors. There are those who need to have all the issues. And there are those, like me, who like certain characters or teams and hang on to books because of that, hoping that a creative team will gel. There are breaking points, of course; I wasn't going to buy Jurgen's version of the Teen Titans with Atom, and I've heard nothing but bad things for the non-teen Titans book. But I'll usually give a book at least a chance if a favorite, little-used character is in it. With the reboot, however, that's all but gone. I can't complain too much, though... I'll lament Teen Titans (which had just turned around), Batgirl, Superboy, and even Supergirl, but I've been barely hanging onto JSA and JLA, and as much as I initially liked Flash, it was basically just filler. I just read the latest trade of Green Lantern Corps where two different writers did consecutive stories about the same obscure character and basically ignored each other's plot. DC editorial has been absolutely horrendous lately, and if this gets them on a better track with a fresh slate, good for them.
#302
DVD Talk Special Edition
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
Preterite, while there will certainly be an impact on the storyline from this not-a-reboot and the Legion Lost book, it does look like LoSH will continue with few changes...at least, that's what I'm hoping. I'm willing to support that book to support the pre-not-a-reboot line.
As I said before, if DC had done a clean break and started totally fresh like they did in the 50's, I'd be excited about this. But as I predicted previously, they are trying to have their cake and eat it too, resulting in a convoluted mess as fans and creators try to sort out what did and didn't happen. I know Johns and company are desperate to re-establish the status quo of their youth, but did they really have to bring back the Post-Crisis car wreck?
#303
DVD Talk Hero
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
Notes from a Dan Didio conference here:
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/06/...ow-in-chicago/
A few interesting tidbits, including retailer incentives for getting readers to buy digital through them, promises that they won't go back to the old numbering for Action and Detective when they get near milestones, and more about their advertising initiative. But then I file this under the it-really-really-seems-like-trying-to-reinvoke-the-speculator-era file:
I think I made a joke about this earlier in the thread, but I knew the polybagged version would have a different cover... how could they refuse?
also, from here:
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/06/...rs-cornered-2/
This sounds exactly like going back to the Image days of splash pages.
That seems to spell doom for All Star Western and Men At War, I would think. Justice League and Action can probably hang at 3.99, though I could've sworn they were drawing the line at 2.99 or something like that.
That's what I expected.
We just had an urban legend Batman thread, so at least one forum member will be happy.
Ah, defending the Image art. And does that mean Legion Lost is in the pre-reboot universe? May add that to my LoSH pull, then.
Lots of other good info in that link as well.
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/06/...ow-in-chicago/
A few interesting tidbits, including retailer incentives for getting readers to buy digital through them, promises that they won't go back to the old numbering for Action and Detective when they get near milestones, and more about their advertising initiative. But then I file this under the it-really-really-seems-like-trying-to-reinvoke-the-speculator-era file:
The polybagged JLA #1 that comes with the digital redemption code will have a variant cover (it wasn’t announced who would do it however).
also, from here:
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/06/...rs-cornered-2/
Dan Didio then matter of factly added “That comics had become too talky, too quiet & less exciting. That comics were losing ground too video games, movies and TV, and that it was time to plant a flag in the ground!, That when new customers or lapsed customers walk into our stores that more action and better accessibility would be ideal. That comic book movies were doing comics better than comic books.”
As an aside, around this time, he joked that he read a comic that had 15 pages of 9 panel grids of heads talking. I wonder what issue that was?
As an aside, around this time, he joked that he read a comic that had 15 pages of 9 panel grids of heads talking. I wonder what issue that was?
As they were discussing JLA they went into the 52 titles one by one slideshow and some interesting quips and insights were given about most including off topic anecdotes about planning and plotting this initiative. Of the 52 all but four will be $2.99. Action, All Star Western, & Men At War will be $3.99 each.
Dan Didio said “They had an unofficial curve chart no one would see in the offices where the higher the sales the less is changed.” This is why the Batman & Green Lantern titles will re-launch relatively unchanged story wise.
Geoff Johns stated “Three key elements to his JLA are “Heart, Humor & Heroics”, Lee & Johns added that the word Superhero doesn’t exist yet and that Batman at this point when the JLA first meet in the first arc of his book is more or less an Urban Legend that has been working behind the scenes for years.” Arc #2 would take place years later in the current timeline. JLA would be the book that is kind of the start of the DC Superhero universe.
Teen Titans - Tim Drake is Red Robin. When discussing this book and Hawk & Dove, Jim Lee joked about the jabs of its the 1990s all over again on the net, as a bash against Image styled art. He stated “There are only five of us that are in that style, Capullo, Lee, Booth, Liefeld & Finch” and that he would put the sales on those five books with their art, up against the other 47 titles.
Legion Lost - In Current DC timeline.
Legion Lost - In Current DC timeline.
Lots of other good info in that link as well.
#304
DVD Talk Legend
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
Fans plan protest at Comic-Con against DC relaunch
http://robot6.comicbookresources.com...t-dc-relaunch/
http://robot6.comicbookresources.com...t-dc-relaunch/
#305
DVD Talk Legend
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
“There are only five of us that are in that style, Capullo, Lee, Booth, Liefeld & Finch” and that he would put the sales on those five books with their art, up against the other 47 titles.
#306
DVD Talk Hero
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
So this is what it boils down to, Jim Lee is a secret agent working from the inside to turn DC Comics into Image Comics. Didio must be worried his job is in jeopardy if DC does not start catching up to Marvel in sales and this is his big gambit.
#307
Banned
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
Yeah I believe that about as much as I believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Anyone who truly does not believe Action will go back to original numbering for #1000, I have a bridge to sell them.
Action is still eight years away from #1000 anyway. A lot can and will change in eight years.
#308
DVD Talk Legend
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
Yeah I believe that about as much as I believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Anyone who truly does not believe Action will go back to original numbering for #1000, I have a bridge to sell them.
Action is still eight years away from #1000 anyway. A lot can and will change in eight years.
Action is still eight years away from #1000 anyway. A lot can and will change in eight years.
#309
DVD Talk Limited Edition
#310
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
The numbering issue is just another symptom of the larger problem. Comics have a cumulative history, and readers place each story in that context. Even if Modern Age Batman is a different incarnation than the Bat-Man debuted in Detective Comics #27, Batman readers still recognize them both as part of the same tradition and heritage. Writers and artists, of course, do their damnedest to break free and establish their story/run as its own thing--which they should try to do.
The problem is when the breaking free effort becomes so overt that it amounts to filing divorce. We know that comics heritage and contemporary writers may not have a happy marriage, but they need to stay together for the kids and we all know it. I wish they'd quit dragging us all to counseling with these kinds of events. (That's my crazy-long metaphor run amok for the day.)
The problem is when the breaking free effort becomes so overt that it amounts to filing divorce. We know that comics heritage and contemporary writers may not have a happy marriage, but they need to stay together for the kids and we all know it. I wish they'd quit dragging us all to counseling with these kinds of events. (That's my crazy-long metaphor run amok for the day.)
#311
Banned
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
Action will be the first comic to ever reach 1000 issues. (Not counting Deadpool #1000 that was released as a joke.) There is no way that DC will miss milking that milestone for all its worth.
#312
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
I can't bring myself to care about the numbering. That doesn't really matter to me, at all. I think all of the juggling with numbering Marvel has done over the last 10 years has been silly, but it doesn't bother me.
There is absolutely no way the relaunched DC will not be informed by all of the comics that have come before it, regardless of what the number on the front says. Hell, the Ultimate Universe is it's own totally separate thing, and even those comics are informed by mainline Marvel, so I don't see why these DC books won't be. I just really hope the books are good. That's my biggest focus.
There is absolutely no way the relaunched DC will not be informed by all of the comics that have come before it, regardless of what the number on the front says. Hell, the Ultimate Universe is it's own totally separate thing, and even those comics are informed by mainline Marvel, so I don't see why these DC books won't be. I just really hope the books are good. That's my biggest focus.
#313
DVD Talk Legend
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
At some point they started to use numbers to sell issues instead of simply keeping a historical account of a series.
#314
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
They may not have any current plans for going back to original numbering, but as I said, Action is still eight years away from #1000. A lot can and will change in eight years time. Heck, Didio and Lee may not even be running the show at DC anymore in 2019.
Action will be the first comic to ever reach 1000 issues. (Not counting Deadpool #1000 that was released as a joke.) There is no way that DC will miss milking that milestone for all its worth.
Action will be the first comic to ever reach 1000 issues. (Not counting Deadpool #1000 that was released as a joke.) There is no way that DC will miss milking that milestone for all its worth.
#315
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
How can you not care about the numbering? Maybe it's the "collector" in me but if I'm trying to find Captain America #22 lets say it would be nearly impossible without a bunch of other qualifiers.
At some point they started to use numbers to sell issues instead of simply keeping a historical account of a series.
At some point they started to use numbers to sell issues instead of simply keeping a historical account of a series.
So while I'm in agreement that the numbering does have an important symbolic value, I'm of the mind that it means something when it recognizes the past rather than when it starts all over again.
#316
DVD Talk Legend
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
10 myths about the relaunch, good read:
http://www.newsarama.com/comics/ten-...ed-110629.html
Warren Ellis lays it down:
http://www.newsarama.com/comics/ten-...ed-110629.html
Warren Ellis lays it down:
To understand DC Comics’ move to day-and-date with digital editions of their print comics, you have to understand the intent behind their relaunch.
One crucial thing hasn’t changed. For as long as I’ve known him, Dan Didio has believed the key to a resurgent DC is reclaiming all the readers the commercial medium lost in the 90s. On the DC Retailer Roadshow, he’s been hammering this home. Recent statements about how commercial comics have gotten boring and that there should be more visual punch in the mode of 90s comics movements like the early Image Comics work and (unspoken, but certainly associated) the Marvel style of that general period… have made their mark, but have also misled a bit. It’s all about accessing that hypothetical lost fan base. The impression the recent statements have left is Dan saying “comics used to sell loads back then, let’s do that again.” And that can’t happen in print.
Comics used to sell loads back then, yes. But a big part of that — and this is the part he isn’t mentioning — is that there were ten thousand comics shops back then. And now there are, optimistically and rounding up, about two thousand. There simply aren’t the number of outlets left to sell the kind of volume comics could shift in the 90s.
The gamble here is this: that hypothetical lost fan base is older, has credit cards and disposable income, and an internet connection that can bring the DC Comics section of a notional comics store right to their desks. That, in fact, digital comics services will do the work of those eight thousand stores that don’t exist anymore.
It was in DC’s core DNA to protect and serve physical comics stores. To the point where every 18 months or so they’d pay for a hundred comics retailers to attend a special DC conference, where the retailers could moan at them for two days and then go home and order more Marvel comics. (In broad and crude terms, DC were the attentive suitor, while Marvel Comics treated retailers mean to keep them keen.) Now, there is a fascinating situation where DC will polybag special issues of JUSTICE LEAGUE #1 with a digital-comic download code, a book that will cost an extra dollar. Comics are done on firm sale. Which means, as far as I can see, that the retailer is being charged extra money on each copy of that edition too. Maybe I’m wrong, and comics retailers aren’t being offered a reacharound while getting an mild yet unwelcome pegging. But it’s an interesting kind of support. DC are offering support to retailers in other ways and are making sympathetic noises, but other quotes from this roadshow — one from Bob Wayne, DC’s head of sales, boiled down to “if you’re not selling enough of our comics you’re not doing your job” — tend to suggest that someone at the company has realised that the comics retailers already have a girlfriend and never liked DC anyway.
(Also, Dan and Jim? I love you guys, and I’m greatly enjoying watching you start some shit. But you can’t keep talking about how the old comics were boring when you in fact were the old management too. Someone’s eventually going to call you on it, and you’re not going to have a good answer. That said: keep starting fires. It’s good.)
One crucial thing hasn’t changed. For as long as I’ve known him, Dan Didio has believed the key to a resurgent DC is reclaiming all the readers the commercial medium lost in the 90s. On the DC Retailer Roadshow, he’s been hammering this home. Recent statements about how commercial comics have gotten boring and that there should be more visual punch in the mode of 90s comics movements like the early Image Comics work and (unspoken, but certainly associated) the Marvel style of that general period… have made their mark, but have also misled a bit. It’s all about accessing that hypothetical lost fan base. The impression the recent statements have left is Dan saying “comics used to sell loads back then, let’s do that again.” And that can’t happen in print.
Comics used to sell loads back then, yes. But a big part of that — and this is the part he isn’t mentioning — is that there were ten thousand comics shops back then. And now there are, optimistically and rounding up, about two thousand. There simply aren’t the number of outlets left to sell the kind of volume comics could shift in the 90s.
The gamble here is this: that hypothetical lost fan base is older, has credit cards and disposable income, and an internet connection that can bring the DC Comics section of a notional comics store right to their desks. That, in fact, digital comics services will do the work of those eight thousand stores that don’t exist anymore.
It was in DC’s core DNA to protect and serve physical comics stores. To the point where every 18 months or so they’d pay for a hundred comics retailers to attend a special DC conference, where the retailers could moan at them for two days and then go home and order more Marvel comics. (In broad and crude terms, DC were the attentive suitor, while Marvel Comics treated retailers mean to keep them keen.) Now, there is a fascinating situation where DC will polybag special issues of JUSTICE LEAGUE #1 with a digital-comic download code, a book that will cost an extra dollar. Comics are done on firm sale. Which means, as far as I can see, that the retailer is being charged extra money on each copy of that edition too. Maybe I’m wrong, and comics retailers aren’t being offered a reacharound while getting an mild yet unwelcome pegging. But it’s an interesting kind of support. DC are offering support to retailers in other ways and are making sympathetic noises, but other quotes from this roadshow — one from Bob Wayne, DC’s head of sales, boiled down to “if you’re not selling enough of our comics you’re not doing your job” — tend to suggest that someone at the company has realised that the comics retailers already have a girlfriend and never liked DC anyway.
(Also, Dan and Jim? I love you guys, and I’m greatly enjoying watching you start some shit. But you can’t keep talking about how the old comics were boring when you in fact were the old management too. Someone’s eventually going to call you on it, and you’re not going to have a good answer. That said: keep starting fires. It’s good.)
Last edited by stingermck; 06-30-11 at 12:47 PM.
#317
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
Dan Didio then matter of factly added “That comics had become too talky, too quiet & less exciting. That comics were losing ground too video games, movies and TV, and that it was time to plant a flag in the ground!,
That when new customers or lapsed customers walk into our stores that more action and better accessibility would be ideal. That comic book movies were doing comics better than comic books.”
Teen Titans - Tim Drake is Red Robin. When discussing this book and Hawk & Dove, Jim Lee joked about the jabs of its the 1990s all over again on the net, as a bash against Image styled art. He stated “There are only five of us that are in that style, Capullo, Lee, Booth, Liefeld & Finch” and that he would put the sales on those five books with their art, up against the other 47 titles.
#318
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
Myth #1: "It's a total reboot"
Green Lantern books? Batman books? No reboot.
Superman books? JLA origin? Total reboot.
Green Lantern books? Batman books? No reboot.
Superman books? JLA origin? Total reboot.
#319
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
What I did read sounded pretty interesting. They're going to show real time comic book news on Cartoon Network. Don't know what that means exactly, like they are going to show comic shops live on Wednesdays. I don't know how that will work because most of the clientel are not kids, and the shops themselves don't really look kid friendly at times.
However, it does seem like a better attempt at getting comic reading more well known through TV.
However, it does seem like a better attempt at getting comic reading more well known through TV.
#320
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
It's too bad they couldn't give their reboots the ALL-STAR approach.
Even though Frank Miller seemed like he was just cashing a check and doing whatever the hell he wanted they're were some good things in that story.
It had lots of action but also a good amount of text per page. It also seemed new. Batman and Robin were starting out and he was re-introducing characters left and right. It was a little too much with the JLA, but it was colorful, and on the surface, was what a comic should be.
All-Star Superman was obviously superior but the only bad thing, IMO, was that it relied alot on nostalgia. I don't think it was as new reader friendly as it could have been.
But the simplicity of those books was what made them great. The storylines were confined to just those books and had they been the only Batman and Superman titles, I probably would have bought all of them. Maybe not Batman because the writing was a joke.
Even though Frank Miller seemed like he was just cashing a check and doing whatever the hell he wanted they're were some good things in that story.
It had lots of action but also a good amount of text per page. It also seemed new. Batman and Robin were starting out and he was re-introducing characters left and right. It was a little too much with the JLA, but it was colorful, and on the surface, was what a comic should be.
All-Star Superman was obviously superior but the only bad thing, IMO, was that it relied alot on nostalgia. I don't think it was as new reader friendly as it could have been.
But the simplicity of those books was what made them great. The storylines were confined to just those books and had they been the only Batman and Superman titles, I probably would have bought all of them. Maybe not Batman because the writing was a joke.
#321
DVD Talk Legend
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
As Harras and Berganza told Newsarama, The Killing Joke stands. In fact, Berganza said Killing Joke "is really crucial to what we're doing." And Scott Snyder told Newsarama that Barbara's change from Oracle to Batgirl will be explained in story.
#322
DVD Talk Legend
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
Really looking forward to how this is explained in Flash Point
#323
DVD Talk Legend
#324
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
I think some people (me) were confused by the fact this roboot seems to be placing us several years into a new DC universe, not at the very beginning of it. When you take into account all the continuity they are apparently taking with them, then this really does seem like a cash grab with lots of No. 1.
#325
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
How can you not care about the numbering? Maybe it's the "collector" in me but if I'm trying to find Captain America #22 lets say it would be nearly impossible without a bunch of other qualifiers.
At some point they started to use numbers to sell issues instead of simply keeping a historical account of a series.
At some point they started to use numbers to sell issues instead of simply keeping a historical account of a series.