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Old 06-29-11, 11:05 AM
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide

Preterite, while there will certainly be an impact on the storyline from this not-a-reboot and the Legion Lost book, it does look like LoSH will continue with few changes...at least, that's what I'm hoping. I'm willing to support that book to support the pre-not-a-reboot line.

I do think there are two kinds of mindless collectors. There are those who need to have all the issues. And there are those, like me, who like certain characters or teams and hang on to books because of that, hoping that a creative team will gel. There are breaking points, of course; I wasn't going to buy Jurgen's version of the Teen Titans with Atom, and I've heard nothing but bad things for the non-teen Titans book. But I'll usually give a book at least a chance if a favorite, little-used character is in it. With the reboot, however, that's all but gone. I can't complain too much, though... I'll lament Teen Titans (which had just turned around), Batgirl, Superboy, and even Supergirl, but I've been barely hanging onto JSA and JLA, and as much as I initially liked Flash, it was basically just filler. I just read the latest trade of Green Lantern Corps where two different writers did consecutive stories about the same obscure character and basically ignored each other's plot. DC editorial has been absolutely horrendous lately, and if this gets them on a better track with a fresh slate, good for them.
Old 06-29-11, 11:21 AM
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide

Originally Posted by fujishig
Preterite, while there will certainly be an impact on the storyline from this not-a-reboot and the Legion Lost book, it does look like LoSH will continue with few changes...at least, that's what I'm hoping. I'm willing to support that book to support the pre-not-a-reboot line.
Same here.

As I said before, if DC had done a clean break and started totally fresh like they did in the 50's, I'd be excited about this. But as I predicted previously, they are trying to have their cake and eat it too, resulting in a convoluted mess as fans and creators try to sort out what did and didn't happen. I know Johns and company are desperate to re-establish the status quo of their youth, but did they really have to bring back the Post-Crisis car wreck?
Old 06-29-11, 07:22 PM
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide

Notes from a Dan Didio conference here:

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/06/...ow-in-chicago/

A few interesting tidbits, including retailer incentives for getting readers to buy digital through them, promises that they won't go back to the old numbering for Action and Detective when they get near milestones, and more about their advertising initiative. But then I file this under the it-really-really-seems-like-trying-to-reinvoke-the-speculator-era file:

The polybagged JLA #1 that comes with the digital redemption code will have a variant cover (it wasn’t announced who would do it however).
I think I made a joke about this earlier in the thread, but I knew the polybagged version would have a different cover... how could they refuse?

also, from here:

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/06/...rs-cornered-2/

Dan Didio then matter of factly added “That comics had become too talky, too quiet & less exciting. That comics were losing ground too video games, movies and TV, and that it was time to plant a flag in the ground!, That when new customers or lapsed customers walk into our stores that more action and better accessibility would be ideal. That comic book movies were doing comics better than comic books.”

As an aside, around this time, he joked that he read a comic that had 15 pages of 9 panel grids of heads talking. I wonder what issue that was?
This sounds exactly like going back to the Image days of splash pages.

As they were discussing JLA they went into the 52 titles one by one slideshow and some interesting quips and insights were given about most including off topic anecdotes about planning and plotting this initiative. Of the 52 all but four will be $2.99. Action, All Star Western, & Men At War will be $3.99 each.
That seems to spell doom for All Star Western and Men At War, I would think. Justice League and Action can probably hang at 3.99, though I could've sworn they were drawing the line at 2.99 or something like that.

Dan Didio said “They had an unofficial curve chart no one would see in the offices where the higher the sales the less is changed.” This is why the Batman & Green Lantern titles will re-launch relatively unchanged story wise.
That's what I expected.

Geoff Johns stated “Three key elements to his JLA are “Heart, Humor & Heroics”, Lee & Johns added that the word Superhero doesn’t exist yet and that Batman at this point when the JLA first meet in the first arc of his book is more or less an Urban Legend that has been working behind the scenes for years.” Arc #2 would take place years later in the current timeline. JLA would be the book that is kind of the start of the DC Superhero universe.
We just had an urban legend Batman thread, so at least one forum member will be happy.

Teen Titans - Tim Drake is Red Robin. When discussing this book and Hawk & Dove, Jim Lee joked about the jabs of its the 1990s all over again on the net, as a bash against Image styled art. He stated “There are only five of us that are in that style, Capullo, Lee, Booth, Liefeld & Finch” and that he would put the sales on those five books with their art, up against the other 47 titles.

Legion Lost - In Current DC timeline.
Ah, defending the Image art. And does that mean Legion Lost is in the pre-reboot universe? May add that to my LoSH pull, then.

Lots of other good info in that link as well.
Old 06-29-11, 08:43 PM
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide

Fans plan protest at Comic-Con against DC relaunch

http://robot6.comicbookresources.com...t-dc-relaunch/
Old 06-29-11, 09:28 PM
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide

“There are only five of us that are in that style, Capullo, Lee, Booth, Liefeld & Finch” and that he would put the sales on those five books with their art, up against the other 47 titles.
And I actually agree with him. Even though I don't collect anymore and never had a great love for the DC Universe I might pick up JLA, whatever Batman book Capullo is doing, and Teen Titans with Booth. When they inevitably leave in 6 months so will I more then likely.
Old 06-30-11, 12:27 AM
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide

So this is what it boils down to, Jim Lee is a secret agent working from the inside to turn DC Comics into Image Comics. Didio must be worried his job is in jeopardy if DC does not start catching up to Marvel in sales and this is his big gambit.
Old 06-30-11, 01:46 AM
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide

Originally Posted by fujishig
promises that they won't go back to the old numbering for Action and Detective when they get near milestones

Yeah I believe that about as much as I believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Anyone who truly does not believe Action will go back to original numbering for #1000, I have a bridge to sell them.

Action is still eight years away from #1000 anyway. A lot can and will change in eight years.
Old 06-30-11, 09:00 AM
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide

Originally Posted by kgrogers1979
Yeah I believe that about as much as I believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Anyone who truly does not believe Action will go back to original numbering for #1000, I have a bridge to sell them.

Action is still eight years away from #1000 anyway. A lot can and will change in eight years.
How many times did Quesada say the same thing?
Old 06-30-11, 09:13 AM
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide

Originally Posted by Timber
How many times did Quesada say the same thing?
Yes but Quesada is a big fat liar. Jim Lee and Dan Didio are both very honest men.
Old 06-30-11, 09:15 AM
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide

The numbering issue is just another symptom of the larger problem. Comics have a cumulative history, and readers place each story in that context. Even if Modern Age Batman is a different incarnation than the Bat-Man debuted in Detective Comics #27, Batman readers still recognize them both as part of the same tradition and heritage. Writers and artists, of course, do their damnedest to break free and establish their story/run as its own thing--which they should try to do.

The problem is when the breaking free effort becomes so overt that it amounts to filing divorce. We know that comics heritage and contemporary writers may not have a happy marriage, but they need to stay together for the kids and we all know it. I wish they'd quit dragging us all to counseling with these kinds of events. (That's my crazy-long metaphor run amok for the day.)
Old 06-30-11, 09:55 AM
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide

Originally Posted by madcougar
Yes but Quesada is a big fat liar. Jim Lee and Dan Didio are both very honest men.
They may not have any current plans for going back to original numbering, but as I said, Action is still eight years away from #1000. A lot can and will change in eight years time. Heck, Didio and Lee may not even be running the show at DC anymore in 2019.

Action will be the first comic to ever reach 1000 issues. (Not counting Deadpool #1000 that was released as a joke.) There is no way that DC will miss milking that milestone for all its worth.
Old 06-30-11, 10:10 AM
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide

I can't bring myself to care about the numbering. That doesn't really matter to me, at all. I think all of the juggling with numbering Marvel has done over the last 10 years has been silly, but it doesn't bother me.

There is absolutely no way the relaunched DC will not be informed by all of the comics that have come before it, regardless of what the number on the front says. Hell, the Ultimate Universe is it's own totally separate thing, and even those comics are informed by mainline Marvel, so I don't see why these DC books won't be. I just really hope the books are good. That's my biggest focus.
Old 06-30-11, 10:20 AM
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide

Originally Posted by boredsilly
I can't bring myself to care about the numbering. That doesn't really matter to me, at all. I think all of the juggling with numbering Marvel has done over the last 10 years has been silly, but it doesn't bother me.
How can you not care about the numbering? Maybe it's the "collector" in me but if I'm trying to find Captain America #22 lets say it would be nearly impossible without a bunch of other qualifiers.

At some point they started to use numbers to sell issues instead of simply keeping a historical account of a series.
Old 06-30-11, 10:38 AM
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide

Originally Posted by kgrogers1979
They may not have any current plans for going back to original numbering, but as I said, Action is still eight years away from #1000. A lot can and will change in eight years time. Heck, Didio and Lee may not even be running the show at DC anymore in 2019.

Action will be the first comic to ever reach 1000 issues. (Not counting Deadpool #1000 that was released as a joke.) There is no way that DC will miss milking that milestone for all its worth.
My point is that Joe Quesada is big, fat and a liar. And that Jim Lee and Dan Didio are both lean and honest.
Old 06-30-11, 10:38 AM
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide

Originally Posted by Timber
How can you not care about the numbering? Maybe it's the "collector" in me but if I'm trying to find Captain America #22 lets say it would be nearly impossible without a bunch of other qualifiers.

At some point they started to use numbers to sell issues instead of simply keeping a historical account of a series.
I think I get what both of you are saying, and I'm somewhere in the middle. For me, numbering isn't just organizational. It reflects the cumulative heritage of a series. I like knowing that I have issues #300, #500 and #600 of Detective Comics. I imagine how many readers actually stayed active readers between those milestone issues, or might have owned the copies that I now have. I like being part of that in my own small way as a reader, and collector.

So while I'm in agreement that the numbering does have an important symbolic value, I'm of the mind that it means something when it recognizes the past rather than when it starts all over again.
Old 06-30-11, 12:39 PM
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide

10 myths about the relaunch, good read:

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/ten-...ed-110629.html

Warren Ellis lays it down:

To understand DC Comics’ move to day-and-date with digital editions of their print comics, you have to understand the intent behind their relaunch.

One crucial thing hasn’t changed. For as long as I’ve known him, Dan Didio has believed the key to a resurgent DC is reclaiming all the readers the commercial medium lost in the 90s. On the DC Retailer Roadshow, he’s been hammering this home. Recent statements about how commercial comics have gotten boring and that there should be more visual punch in the mode of 90s comics movements like the early Image Comics work and (unspoken, but certainly associated) the Marvel style of that general period… have made their mark, but have also misled a bit. It’s all about accessing that hypothetical lost fan base. The impression the recent statements have left is Dan saying “comics used to sell loads back then, let’s do that again.” And that can’t happen in print.

Comics used to sell loads back then, yes. But a big part of that — and this is the part he isn’t mentioning — is that there were ten thousand comics shops back then. And now there are, optimistically and rounding up, about two thousand. There simply aren’t the number of outlets left to sell the kind of volume comics could shift in the 90s.

The gamble here is this: that hypothetical lost fan base is older, has credit cards and disposable income, and an internet connection that can bring the DC Comics section of a notional comics store right to their desks. That, in fact, digital comics services will do the work of those eight thousand stores that don’t exist anymore.

It was in DC’s core DNA to protect and serve physical comics stores. To the point where every 18 months or so they’d pay for a hundred comics retailers to attend a special DC conference, where the retailers could moan at them for two days and then go home and order more Marvel comics. (In broad and crude terms, DC were the attentive suitor, while Marvel Comics treated retailers mean to keep them keen.) Now, there is a fascinating situation where DC will polybag special issues of JUSTICE LEAGUE #1 with a digital-comic download code, a book that will cost an extra dollar. Comics are done on firm sale. Which means, as far as I can see, that the retailer is being charged extra money on each copy of that edition too. Maybe I’m wrong, and comics retailers aren’t being offered a reacharound while getting an mild yet unwelcome pegging. But it’s an interesting kind of support. DC are offering support to retailers in other ways and are making sympathetic noises, but other quotes from this roadshow — one from Bob Wayne, DC’s head of sales, boiled down to “if you’re not selling enough of our comics you’re not doing your job” — tend to suggest that someone at the company has realised that the comics retailers already have a girlfriend and never liked DC anyway.

(Also, Dan and Jim? I love you guys, and I’m greatly enjoying watching you start some shit. But you can’t keep talking about how the old comics were boring when you in fact were the old management too. Someone’s eventually going to call you on it, and you’re not going to have a good answer. That said: keep starting fires. It’s good.)

Last edited by stingermck; 06-30-11 at 12:47 PM.
Old 06-30-11, 12:47 PM
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide

Dan Didio then matter of factly added “That comics had become too talky, too quiet & less exciting. That comics were losing ground too video games, movies and TV, and that it was time to plant a flag in the ground!,
That's been going on for years, regardless of quality of the comic.

That when new customers or lapsed customers walk into our stores that more action and better accessibility would be ideal. That comic book movies were doing comics better than comic books.”
I don't think that's necessarily true. I think it's because comic movies now have a mainstream audience while comics seem to be aimed strictly at comic fans.



Teen Titans - Tim Drake is Red Robin. When discussing this book and Hawk & Dove, Jim Lee joked about the jabs of its the 1990s all over again on the net, as a bash against Image styled art. He stated “There are only five of us that are in that style, Capullo, Lee, Booth, Liefeld & Finch” and that he would put the sales on those five books with their art, up against the other 47 titles.
DC for awhile was hyping up their writers. Meltzer, Johns, Morrison, and others like Picoult, Heinberg, etc. Now it seems that when that approach is no longer working their emphasizing art, and books written by artists.
Old 06-30-11, 12:50 PM
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide

Originally Posted by stingermck
10 myths about the relaunch, good read:

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/ten-...ed-110629.html
Myth #1: "It's a total reboot"

Green Lantern books? Batman books? No reboot.

Superman books? JLA origin? Total reboot.
So make sure that you pretend not to notice any reference to Superman or the JLA in your Green Lantern or Batman back issues. It just seems to me they're making this much harder on writers and readers than it really needed to be. There's nothing wrong with a periodic reset, but I have a feeling that the folks at DC are so insulated right now that they're oblivious to how convoluted and alienating this all reads to someone who isn't an enthusiastic, active DC reader.
Old 06-30-11, 12:55 PM
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide

What I did read sounded pretty interesting. They're going to show real time comic book news on Cartoon Network. Don't know what that means exactly, like they are going to show comic shops live on Wednesdays. I don't know how that will work because most of the clientel are not kids, and the shops themselves don't really look kid friendly at times.

However, it does seem like a better attempt at getting comic reading more well known through TV.
Old 06-30-11, 01:04 PM
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide

It's too bad they couldn't give their reboots the ALL-STAR approach.

Even though Frank Miller seemed like he was just cashing a check and doing whatever the hell he wanted they're were some good things in that story.

It had lots of action but also a good amount of text per page. It also seemed new. Batman and Robin were starting out and he was re-introducing characters left and right. It was a little too much with the JLA, but it was colorful, and on the surface, was what a comic should be.

All-Star Superman was obviously superior but the only bad thing, IMO, was that it relied alot on nostalgia. I don't think it was as new reader friendly as it could have been.

But the simplicity of those books was what made them great. The storylines were confined to just those books and had they been the only Batman and Superman titles, I probably would have bought all of them. Maybe not Batman because the writing was a joke.
Old 06-30-11, 01:32 PM
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide

As Harras and Berganza told Newsarama, The Killing Joke stands. In fact, Berganza said Killing Joke "is really crucial to what we're doing." And Scott Snyder told Newsarama that Barbara's change from Oracle to Batgirl will be explained in story.
So even though this is the "dawning" of the Superhero Age they still have Barbara being Batgirl, getting shot, being Oracle, now healing and being Batgirl again? Oh and Superman is the first superhero? So where does this leave space for Batman's still intact history?
Old 06-30-11, 01:36 PM
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide

Originally Posted by Timber
So even though this is the "dawning" of the Superhero Age they still have Barbara being Batgirl, getting shot, being Oracle, now healing and being Batgirl again? Oh and Superman is the first superhero? So where does this leave space for Batman's still intact history?
Yeah they've said most heroes have been active for 5 years. Babs is OK, but they are really going to have to explain 3/4 Robins.

Really looking forward to how this is explained in Flash Point
Old 06-30-11, 01:57 PM
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide

Originally Posted by stingermck

Really looking forward to how this is explained in Flash Point
Andy Kubert is drawing Flash Point?

All this discussion has sort of gotten me interested in seeing how it comes about.
Old 06-30-11, 02:17 PM
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide

I think some people (me) were confused by the fact this roboot seems to be placing us several years into a new DC universe, not at the very beginning of it. When you take into account all the continuity they are apparently taking with them, then this really does seem like a cash grab with lots of No. 1.
Old 06-30-11, 02:33 PM
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide

Originally Posted by Timber
How can you not care about the numbering? Maybe it's the "collector" in me but if I'm trying to find Captain America #22 lets say it would be nearly impossible without a bunch of other qualifiers.

At some point they started to use numbers to sell issues instead of simply keeping a historical account of a series.
It's easy. I'm only into comics for the stories. The collectability factor is totally lost on me. I only care about numbers in context to know what I should read next.


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