Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)
 

Love the story!

Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)
 

I've often been an advocate on this board for the FF arc of Frightful Four-Inhumans-Silver Surfer-Galactus. I think it still holds up, though I admit I haven't read it in a while. The early early FF stuff is kind of lame, though. I much prefer the Spider-Man stories of the same era.

I started reading in the '70s and that's what I tend to read these days in Essentials or the like. I do prefer the stories I've read before so there is a bit of rose-colored glasses happening there. But for me the Marvel stuff is better reading than similar fare from DC Showcases, like JLA--those stories seem like they were meant to be read one per month and can't occupy me for a long plane ride like the Marvel stuff.

I've tried to read modern stuff with mixed results. I loved Astonishing X-Men, New Avengers, and Birds of Prey for a while, but then lost interest. Y The Last Man was a good one, and my current favorite is Invincible. The epic crossovers make my head hurt. I liked Identity Crisis and read all the preludes to Infinite Crisis but never finished Infinite itself.

I'll keep trying new stuff but will probably keep going back to the '70s.

Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)
 

What Gruenwald did with his original Squadron Supreme was take already existing analogs of the Justice League (back then, marvel had the Squadron Supreme/Sinister as JLA analogs and the Imperial Guard as Legion of Superheroes analogs) and was able to play around in a sort of elseworlds story about what would happen if superheroes really wanted to take over the world to make it a better place. I loved it as a kid, and have that tpb somewhere with Gruenwald's ashes in it. But c'mon, you're going to tell me that Claremont's X-men run (Dark Phoenix, Days of Future Past, etc.), Simonson's Thor run, Frank Miller's Daredevil, Byrne's FF and Michelinie's Iron Man weren't great? I'd even include Stern's run on Avengers and ASM and Claremont's New Mutants. I can't be that blinded by nostalgia, can I?

Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)
 

.... and I'm done masturbating now. Thanks for the photos!

Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)
 

Yes, I've read all of those and I wasn't pulled in by the stories. Just not gripping enough for me. Dark Phoenix is one of the most overrated storylines as well. I just don't get what's so great about it.

Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)
 

I never cared for Dark Phoenix but loved Millers run on Daredevil.

I think much of our fondness of comic book runs come from liking the characters as kids. I'll rate Marvel over DC books because I've got a bigger childhood attachment to those characters. I'll probably rate a good Spiderman book over a great mutant title just from childhood affinity.

Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)
 

I can see your point, but that's a bad analogy, as movies of the 40's often do stand up to The Godfather. Also I'd say Sandman is the top comic of all time. I only used it as an example because I just finished re-reading it.

So let's be more fair and take Claremont's run on X-Men. Claremont brought a level of sophistication and emotional connection to the series that was thoroughly absent in the 60's run (imo). The obvious example is the Dark Phoenix Saga, but even beyond that Claremont really brought out a lot in the team. And if you're looking for good examples of ham-fisted writing in 60's titles, X-Men is full of it. I recall in one of the first issues, Jean Grey telling Professor X not to worry about the team going on a mission, and Xavier says to himself in a thought bubble, "As if I can't help but be worried about the woman I love! But I can never tell her how I feel!" I mean, come on, how corny can you get?

Another good example of how the writing got better after the 60's is Miller's run on Daredevil. The 60's comics were great for laying the foundation of what we know and love today, but the actual mechanics of the stories were often clunky, with cheesy dialogue that said too much in a medium where less is more.

Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)
 

I think part of it is the time period that it was written in, and how revolutionary it was at the time. Even Squadron Supreme is a bit dated, and with the concepts fleshed out in various elseworlds and stuff like the Authority, I'm not sure how well it holds up today without nostalgia. For Dark Phoenix, when you consider how Jean was resurrected and then all the other crap that happened with the Phoenix force since then, I think one can easily come in after the fact and be underwhelmed. But I loved the whole thing... the slow corruption of Jean Grey over the months and the X-men in the meantime fighting the Hellfire Club, the Imperial Guard, etc. That's something Claremont used to do extremely well, picking up these long running threads and connecting them, and Byrne's art certainly didn't hurt.

I know this is switching conversation to the 80's, but DC was no slouch... I'm still a huge Teen Titans and Legion of Superheroes fan largely because of that era.

Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)
 

Your welcome. :) BTW, I noticed your from the Bay Area, too. You know of any good comic stores in your area that carry a good selection of GA, SA, or BA books? Thanks.

I love the TT, too. I have most of original series (60's) and every issue that Wolfman and Perez did. I thought it was an awesome run. I started losing interest a few issues after the Troia storyline. I completely gave it up when they started adding new members and started the team titans stories.

Did you ever notice that Rob Liefield stole the 2 page splash from #40 and put it in X-Force #1 and never gave credit to Perez? I know he did that a lot but this one was the most obvious.

As for the LSH my favorite runs were the Cockrum and later Grell issues in the 70's.

Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)
 

You left at the right time (maybe even a bit too late). It started going downhill, IMHO, around Titan's Hunt. I liked the concept behind Team Titans (and the early Dodsen art) but then they decided that Monarch or whatever was behind it and destroyed that book. Then they did the whole "Atom is a teenager with a bunch of new people" as the Teen Titans, Byrne massively screwed up Donna in his Wonder Woman run, they reformed the real Titans but eventually they destroyed Young Justice to create a new, younger Teen Titans penned by Johns, which went to heck when he left and hasn't been good since. But I still collect it. I blame Wolfman and Perez. Did I mention they hired some Gossip Girl writer to pen the series, despite her having very little comic work and being universally reviled by fans of the series? How far the Teen Titans, who once were at the top of the sales charts over Uncanny, have fallen.

Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)
 

I'm glad I left; I don't know anything about the events your describing. It sounds so convoluted now. Well, at least I can go back to rereading the old stuff and be satisfied with it. BTW, do you know why they never did a 2nd issue of the X-Men/Teen Titans team up? I remember reading something about it years ago but it never happened.

Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)
 

My local store R&K Comics in Sunnyvale has an ok selection but nothing I'd say deserves a road trip. I find I get the best bargains and selection when I go down to WonderCon in San Francisco every year. each year I try and fill in one or two more holes in my Daredevil collection.

Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)
 

I'm not too far from there; just down the road on 101 in SJ. I use to go to the original R&K stores way back in the 80's and early 90's. They were just down the road from each other on El Camino. Then I heard it combined with the Big Guys in Mountain View to make way for one big store. I've recently started going to Heroes in Campbell again and they have a decent back issue section. Although, I've heard that R&K is having a sale on back issues. Is that still going on? I haven't had a chance to swing by yet.

Thanks for the info. I'll most likely go to the WonderCon @ Moscone when that happens. Isn't there suppose to be one in San Jose, too?

Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)
 

Really? Small world. R&K always has a 50% off sale going on it seems. They just moved a few stores down into a bigger area where they are going to add a lot more back-issues. I've been to Heroes a few times for Magic cards.

I've seen nothing on a San Jose WonderCon yet, but SF is always a fun day. I'll post when it come up and maybe we can try and see if any other DVDTalkers are gonna attend.

Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)
 

Oh, sure. Pick Daredevil and X-Men -- the two worst books Silver Age Marvel published. :lol:

Kidding aside, I'd hold Silver Age Fantastic Four, Spider-Man, and Thor up against the great runs on those titles we've had since then. Some of the dialogue may be corny by modern standards, but try and go back and read the Claremont dialogue from the 80s -- it's stilted in a different way from Lee's 60s dialogue, but it reads just as unnaturally. And in 20 years, Bendis's dialogue will be hard to read compared to whatever is current in 2030.

Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)
 

I find that comics from the late 80s like Watchmen, Sandman, Grant Morrison's Doom Patrol, and Matt Wagner's Grendel still stand up after twenty years. They seem as fresh and brilliant as they did two decades ago.

But others, like Claremont's X-Men, don't seem as good to me as they did back when I was reading them as they were coming out. I still have a fondness for the title, but it tends to get repetitive (claws that'll cut through anything and bones that can't be broken, the totality of my psychic powers, I'm the best there is at what I do, etc.) when read in large chunks, and there were a shitload of plot threads left dangling after Claremont got sacked. Even so, by the time John Byrne started drawing the book, you can tell it was just blowing away everything else from Marvel and DC back then.

Just got around to reading Miller's Daredevil and Starlin's Warlock a few years ago and found myself disappointed with both. Warlock, I thought, was almost incomprehensible (never into the more cosmic side of Marvel), and I was likewise a bit let down by Miller's DD. I went into DD knowing what would happen, so I felt like I already knew the story intimately, and that may be that's why it didn't live up to my expectations.

Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)
 

Yeah, that would be cool. Never met anyone from this forum in person. I think I will head on over to R&K and check out their back issues. 50% off sounds tempting.

Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)
 

I'd call and ask for Danjer (408) 732-8775 before you make a trip out there. Unless you just like visiting random shops...

http://www.comicsconspiracy.biz/ is also around the corner. The store is sorta small... but they do a lot of collectibles there.

Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)
 

I'll probably just swing by; my kids have been begging me to take them to the Toys R Us there. We haven't been to that one in awhile. Is it still haunted? I'm assuming you know that lot was once an old indian burial ground; at least that's what I heard when I was a kid. LOL

I remember there were also 2 other comics stores behind the SunnyvaleTown Center. One was next to a biker bar on the street where Rooster T. Feather is on and another across from Macys. I can't recall their names, though. I'm sure their not there anymore.

Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)
 

Yep, both are long dead.

And yep, that is the famous haunted Toy r Us. Unsolved Mysteries did an episode on it even...so it has to be true!

Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)
 

I think you're biased because you can't respect The Blob for his weight problems. ;)

Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)
 

Oh, man. When I was a kid, I had a That's Incredible book and one of the stories in it was about that Toys R Us. I haven't thought about that stuff in 25 years.

<embed id=VideoPlayback src=http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=-3025561889854800093&hl=en&fs=true style=width:400px;height:326px allowFullScreen=true allowScriptAccess=always type=application/x-shockwave-flash> </embed>

Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)
 

I think there is only one good X-men comic and that is:

Claremont's God Loves, Man Kills


I love the blob. If you are gonna be fat, you should be a superhero!

Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)
 

I liked the movies with the exception of the third one. That one was all over the place. People have to understand the fact that things have to be changed to accomodate a different media. Those fanboys who complained should just stick to the early 90's cartoon. They were more true to the comics than the movies.

Thanks for that. I haven't seen that since it aired. Like I stated earlier; as a kid the story that went around was it was an indian burial ground. I think that would have made for a more interesting story. :)

Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)
 

Oh man, great vid. You gotta love Sylvia Browne... Omega Douchey is that gal. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPBU-nwBEjw

Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)
 

:thumbsup:

Bolded for the truth.

To this day, I still pour over my extensive collection of Neal Adam's Silver Age comics in awe and amazement. His work was so ridiculously far ahead of the curve.

Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)
 

I was 8 years old in 1973 and even then I knew I was looking at something totally different from every other artist out there. I remember being disappointed for buying a cover done by Adams and seeing that he didn't do the story. Hey, I was 8 and if a comic had an Adams cover I would just buy it. Later, when I was a teenager I bought everything he did. Just because he did the cover for this issue it's worth a lot.

http://www.jscomics.com/acom042.jpg

Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)
 

Adams was great, but if you're talking about late Silver-Age realism, nobody beats Steranko.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y28.../NickFury1.jpg

Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)
 

I do like Steranko's art but Adam's anatomy still looks a bit more realistic. He was bold enough to say "If superheroes were real; they would look exactly like the way I draw them." I haven't heard anyone dispute that yet. :)

Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)
 

Funny there are people from this part of the South Bay; used to go to R&K near Longs for many years as wells as Brian's Books near Kiely in Santa Clara, Comics Conspiracy, Heroes, and some smaller shops like the first Black Cat Comics in the Captiol Plaza on Capitol and McKee.

Never saw the one near Rooster T. Feathers; did go to the one on Murphy Street down by the Mira Mar Bar Side.

It's often cheaper to get stuff on the internet when it comes to the really old backstock than the shops around here so I stopped going to them.

My sister knew someone who worked at the Toys R Us and would constantly have to clean-up/de-activate errant toys. I remember being there past closing time and it was an awfully creepy experience and I hadn't known about it being haunted until way later on.

Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)
 

I grew up in the South Bay too--Cupertino. The last time I kept up with floppies was in high school when I used to go to ComicScene on Stevens Creek by Lawrence Expressway. When I go back these days, there's a good shop in the empty shell that used to be Vallco Fashion Park (I think it's called Cupertino Park now).

Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)
 

It's called Legends. They have a really good board-game & role-playing game section as well as a great spread on new books. Just about zero back issues.

Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)
 

The one on Capitol and McKee wasn't called Black Cat when it first opened in the early 80's. It was on the opposite side of the plaza before it ended up behind Montgomery Wards. Neither is there now. It's a Target store today. Damn, I hate it when I can't remember names. Now it's gonna bother me for the rest of the day. :)

Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)
 

Cosmic Comics was the shop in Sunnyvale on Murphy Street. That came to me last night.

Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)
 

Wasn't that the shop that was run by some hippy lady and her husband? That's the one I was probably thinking of that was near Rooster T's. Wasn't it between a bar and a Chinese restaurant or was it a Mexican restaurant. It's been so long.....

Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)
 

Yup, that's the one; I got it confused as it was the first Space Cat, but it was called something before at that spot when it was on the Montgomery Wards side. Wasn't it called Capitol Comics and Cards?

Legends is "fairly" new in the sense that it opened around 99-00.

Ha, awesome! Yeah, this is the one that was near the Mira Mar Bar and I think Stoddard's but it could have been a Chinese restaurant. Only got one chance to go there before it closed around 93 as it was a pain to get people to take me there with the parking/street situations. Picked up my first Marvel Masterpiece car there, the '92 version of the White Queen.

How about going to the Berryessa Flea Market? They used to be great for cards and some comics as there were two regular vendors, one on the side of the new junk retailers and another in a portable that was in the used junk section.

Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)
 

I think it was called Capitol Cards and Comics. Space cat is still on Bascom but I haven't been there since the early 90's. Someone told me they have an online site. I haven't checked it out yet.

I haven't been to the Berryessa Flea Market in years. Are there still people selling back issues there? I remember meeting Lee from Lee's Comics at the flea market before he opened his stores. He still has a store on El Camino in San Mateo and one off the Rengstorff exit on 101; next to Costco and In-N-Out Burger. His back issue section isn't as good as when he was on Alma near Stanford U.

Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)
 

Yep. He died suddenly around '95 and she folded the shop a year or two later. That was my first comic shop... I used to play Gauntlet in there all the time as a kid.

Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)
 

The first comic store I ever went to was the Comic Collector Shop in downtown SJ; way back in '76. It was hands down the best store ever. Bob, the owner had the best back issue selection. He had stacks and stacks right in the middle of the store. They were out of order and you could literary spend days looking through thousands of books. None of them were bagged or boarded. Even up to the early 90's there were brand new mint SA and BA books in the stacks. You just had to find them and the best part was he never really looked at the price guide. He would just pull a price out of the air and it was usually way below the guide. He was sort of a dick; though, he hated kids and barely tolerated us college students because we had cash to burn. Back in the 80's I tried to haggle the price for a mint Batman #251. He wanted the astronomical price of $5 for it. I said I would give him $3. The A-hole pulled it out of my hands and placed it on the shelf behind him and said he wouldn't sell it to me. Jerk. Now, I know I fucked up 'cause that book is worth a lot these days. After he passed away his wife tried to run it but eventually closed it down. Most of my GA, SA and BA books were from there.

Re: Not impressed with Marvel Comics(from the 1960s)
 

Wait... was this shop on the corner of a street in the heart of Downtown, near an empty lot or something? When I was 4 in 1989, I remember my brother taking me somewhere with a shop like that, a long counter on the right and a huge comic section to the left, but I could never find it again.